Let's make everything about RACE (Unapologetically Black Thread)

[KHUFU]

High-Achieving Black Women and Marriage: Not Choosing or Not Chosen?
Black SWANS (Stong Women Achievers, No Spouse)

She was a 40 year old black woman with a Ph.D., ready to find a mate in a city that is only 5% black. One day a tall good-looking black man about her age approached her in the gym. He hadn't finished college but was smart, funny and interesting and she was happy to go out with him. At the end of what she thought was a fun, easygoing dinner he said he was really attracted to her and tried to get her to stay at his place. She refused, telling him it was too fast for her but that she would love to see him again. His response? "Just because you have a Ph.D. you think you're too good for me?" She was so taken aback by his comment she's never forgotten it. That woman was me.


"We have a saying called the 'black girl curse.' A lot of our white friends are married by 25, happily married with kids by 27, and we're like, 'What's the deal with the BGs?' -- and that's black girls."

Popular culture and media such as the ABC Nightline story (from which this quote was taken) continue to feature attractive, successful black women opining about being dissed and dismissed by black men. For years I facilitated black student, faculty and staff support groups on predominantly white campuses and heard similar complaints (especially about high-achieving black men dating and marrying interracially).


What's really going on with high-achieving black women and marriage?

BlACK SWANS

High-Achieving Black Women and Marriage: Not Choosing or Not Chosen?

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[アミーゴ]

Why do NTers still have the Washington Football team old logo as their NT icon?

...

 

[gry60]

Methodical Management

Let's just say that it isn't laziness that is the reason why certain things are not done in some African countries. It's because the people in power there are invested in the status quo, which was created by colonial powers and babysat by the first administrators after Europeans left.

The people who govern those countries today may be Black, but they have given themselves the power to squash innovation and progress if they don't serve their personal interests, which tend to be aligned with legacy institutions headquartered outside of said countries.

In addition, those people may be Black, but blackness as it's understood in the diaspora holds very little sway in subsaharan Africa. It's more about your ethnic background than your skin color, and in some of these places, loyalty to one's ethnic nation supercedes loyalty to one's country.

TunedAirLombardy where are you from?

 

[TunedAirLombardy]

Let's just say that it isn't laziness that is the reason why certain things are not done in some African countries. It's because the people in power there are invested in the status quo, which was created by colonial powers and babysat by the first administrators after Europeans left.

The people who govern those countries today may be Black, but they have given themselves the power to squash innovation and progress if they don't serve their personal interests, which tend to be aligned with legacy institutions headquartered outside of said countries.

TunedAirLombardy where are you from?

I see that all of my posts are gone, truth hurts.

I'm from Algeria, born in France and raised in Canada. The generation of my father, 80% of his friends that live in Canada have PhDs in math/CS/physics. All work in IT or finance. Have many friends that are in med school, pharma, CS/math/physics programs. There are at least 5 million algerians in France, many doctors, professors, etc. Good, hard working people.

Same for our Senegalese, Congolese, Morrocan, Malian, etc. brothers. Many are educated, hold good degrees, have good jobs. Many of us also work their *** off, working 3 jobs, to send money to their countries. In our countries also, many work their *** off, to give the hope of a better life to their children, not even them.

My point is that I'm not belittling the Afro-American community, as I wouldn't do it for my community. I know there's an establishment that's trying to keep us down. That our leaders in our countries are the Western world's puppet. But are we sheeps or humans? There's 40 million people in Algeria. 16 million in Senegal. 40 million Afro-Americans. What they're up to??? As a whole, as a community???

If my ancestors had this logic, they would've never fought and get back their lands from the French.

In addition, those people may be Black, but blackness as it's understood in the diaspora holds very little sway in subsaharan Africa. It's more about your ethnic background than your skin color, and in some of these places, loyalty to one's ethnic nation supercedes loyalty to one's country.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that an Haitian Black is the same as a Black of Nigerian descent in the US? Cause obviously it's not...

 

[Nouss]

TunedAirLombardy

I missed it, what truth were you speaking? That African Americans are lazy?

 

[TunedAirLombardy]

TunedAirLombardy

I missed it, what truth were you speaking? That African Americans are lazy?

No. That as a whole the community isn't organized, doesn't see what's best for themselves and AS A WHOLE they don't have the will to elevate themselves. There are brilliant individuals in the community, however the community is far from brilliant. Same for my people.

Want to see the complete opposite of us? Go look at how the Jews are doing.

DISCLAIMER: I've been treated of racist, sexist, etc. Don't add antisemitism...I'm actually praising them

 

[DCAllAfrican]

No. That as a whole the community isn't organized, doesn't see what's best for themselves and AS A WHOLE they don't have the will to elevate themselves. There are brilliant individuals in the community, however the community is far from brilliant. Same for my people.

1. Do you understand what systematic racism is and how it affects ALL things under the son?

2. Not sure why you are referencing Jews, as if Jewish folks have gone through what we have gone through in this country.

God Bless you though.

 

[TunedAirLombardy]

1. Do you understand what systematic racism is and how it affects ALL things under the son?

2. Not sure why you are referencing Jews, as if Jewish folks have gone through what we have gone through in this country.

God Bless you though.

1. Yes I understand it, and my people live this in France. I know what's giving a CV that won't even be considered once they see the Arab name and the ghetto address. However you can fight it, and for this you have to be united. If you don't fight, you become an animal, not even being able to decide your fate.

If we'd always think like this, farmers and peasants wouldn't have liberated my/their country from the French colonial power.

2. They are examples in term of how a community should fight for itself and be united.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

1. Yes I understand it, and my people live this in France. I know what's giving a CV that won't even be considered once they see the Arab name and the ghetto address. However you can fight it, and for this you have to be united. If you don't fight, you become an animal, not even being able to decide your fate.

If we'd always think like this, farmers and peasants wouldn't have liberated my/their country from the French colonial power.

2. They are examples in term of how a community should fight for itself and be united.

Cool.

We can just agree to disagree.

Black people are lazy.

Thanks

 

[Nouss]

1. Do you understand what systematic racism is and how it affects ALL things under the son?

2. Not sure why you are referencing Jews, as if Jewish folks have gone through what we have gone through in this country.

God Bless you though.

1. Slavery and colonialism was soo long ago. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

2. Lets look to the Model Minorities and just do what they've done. Surely black folks flourishing will be welcomed with grace.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

2. You're reminding me the idiots in the back of the class laughing about the hard working guys. At the end the former sell drugs and live on welfare while the latter thrive

Methodical Management


Yea just ignore the ignorance at this point.

 

[アミーゴ]

Why do NTers still have the Washington Football team old logo as their NT icon?

DCAllAfrican thoughts as a native of The District

 

[DCAllAfrican]

DCAllAfrican thoughts as a native of The District

I understand those that feel like they are being bullied into selling off their old merchandise.

I understand those that refuse to wear it because it is disrespectful.

People spent their money on the clothes and they have a right to wear it.

People on NT are walking a fine line considering the term is banned.

 

[KHUFU]

You know, with all of the information I've placed up in this thread, willful ignorance still persists, and seems to be an issue. The first page should have set these sort of people straight, yet it hasn't even made a dent. So much for reaching out and educating those who may not know.

Methodical Management there are several new offensive posts here coming from a completely disingenuous poster.

 

[アミーゴ]

I understand those that feel like they are being bullied into selling off their old merchandise.

I understand those that refuse to wear it because it is disrespectful.

People spent their money on the clothes and they have a right to wear it.

People on NT are walking a fine line considering the term is banned.

Yes - I was confused why he was allowed to have it

 

[Nouss]

If I cant have *** cheeks in my avy then that mascot has got to go.


But seriously it should have been disallowed when the name was banned.

 

[gry60]

That as a whole the community isn't organized,

It is, whether we are talking about African Americans or African immigrants. Plenty of immigrant communities come together to support their own, and there are a lot of professional organizations that give Black folks all types of access they wouldn't have otherwise.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's there.

If my ancestors had this logic, they would've never fought and get back their lands from the French.

To be fair, it's because of the massive losses in Algeria and Indochina (Vietnam) that the French recalibrated their exit from Africa and opted to "give" independence to their former colonies, in exchange for preferential access to those markets and resources.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that an Haitian Black is the same as a Black of Nigerian descent in the US?

I'm saying the opposite, and I'm speaking in the context of African politics. Specifically, I'm talking about the weight of tribalism in African societies, which is not always apparent when looking from the outside.

BTW, I'm from Cameroon, and I could say the same thing you've said about personal achievement of Africans, and it's because I know very successful Black people, either from here or from abroad, that I disagree with the notion that laziness is THE issue.

There are forces at play (geopolitical forces in the case of Africa and plain old racism in the US) that make it harder to implement projects and ideas that will lead to economic progress for Black people. In the case of the African continent, the reason those forces exist is because the people who lead have aligned their interests with the likes of Bolloré, Elf, Nestlé, Facebook, etc ... So instead of wanting to support the creation of the African Elf, the African Nestlé, the African Ford, they'd rather protect those companies because they get guarantees/bribe money out of it that they wouldn't necessarily have otherwise.
There is no shortage of African entrepreneurs; the only difference between a business that survives and thrives in Africa and one that doesn't is how many toes their enterprise is going to step on and how big those toes are.

Even with this knowledge, folks still try to make things happen, so laziness is not the issue.

 

[TunedAirLombardy]

It is, whether we are talking about African Americans or African immigrants. Plenty of immigrant communities come together to support their own, and there are a lot of professional organizations that give Black folks all types of access they wouldn't have otherwise.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's there.

Well if you say so, I want to believe you. But still I see that my people in France and your people in the US are still treated as second-class citizens...how can I witness what you're talking about? I'm sure there are local organizations. We also have them. I'm having a global vision here.

To be fair, it's because of the massive losses in Algeria and Indochina (Vietnam) that the French recalibrated their exit from Africa and opted to "give" independence to their former colonies, in exchange for preferential access to those markets and resources.

I'm Algerian...so my statements still stands, my ancestors fought to liberate my country.

I'm saying the opposite, and I'm speaking in the context of African politics. Specifically, I'm talking about the weight of tribalism in African societies, which is not always apparent when looking from the outside.

BTW, I'm from Cameroon, and I could say the same thing you've said about personal achievement of Africans, and it's because I know very successful Black people, either from here or from abroad, that I disagree with the notion that laziness is THE issue.

I was talking about my experience, but I know it is the same for the other African countries, I even stated it. Many highly educated people, nothing but respect to those persons. People here seem to think I'm saying that the individuals are lazy. Nah, I'm saying that the community as a whole is lazy. Maybe I've not chosen well my words, but If you're from Africa you may understand what I'm saying there. I don't feel that there's a will to make us elevate our community.

There are forces at play (geopolitical forces in the case of Africa and plain old racism in the US) that make it harder to implement projects and ideas that will lead to economic progress for Black people. In the case of the African continent, the reason those forces exist is because the people who lead have aligned their interests with the likes of Bolloré, Elf, Nestlé, Facebook, etc ... So instead of wanting to support the creation of the African Elf, the African Nestlé, the African Ford, they'd rather protect those companies because they get guarantees/bribe money out of it that they wouldn't necessarily have otherwise.
There is no shortage of African entrepreneurs; the only difference between a business that survives and thrives in Africa and one that doesn't is how many toes their enterprise is going to step on and how big those toes are.

Even with this knowledge, folks still try to make things happen, so laziness is not the issue.

100% agree with this. But should this push to work even harder or to whine louder? To organize ourselves or to be content with what we have?

 

[KHUFU]

 

[KHUFU]

 

[Methodical Management]

I see that all of my posts are gone, truth hurts.

Truth? What truth? You posted a bunch of insulting generalizations about Black people globally on our forums, which were all but indistinguishable from Trump's racist comments about Black-led countries.

These are ignorant, false, dangerous, and egregiously defamatory statements the promote a racist worldview.

It's an old White Supremacist trope, which Charles Blow ably dismantled in a recent piece:

Opinion | Trump’s Fear of Black Competence (Published 2020)

The false idea of Black people as irresponsible, erratic and dangerous is not new.

www.nytimes.com

No. That as a whole the community isn't organized, doesn't see what's best for themselves and AS A WHOLE they don't have the will to elevate themselves. There are brilliant individuals in the community, however the community is far from brilliant. Same for my people.

Want to see the complete opposite of us? Go look at how the Jews are doing.

First: it is possible to be both Black and Jewish, if you're referring to Judaism as ideology rather than ethnicity.

Second: although it's difficult to determine, given how exceptionally vague and unsupported your arguments have been, whether you're attempting to claim that Jewish people are somehow biologically superior or merely "culturally superior", you are, in any case, falling prey to a model minority myth.

The Jewish model minority myth parallels the Asian model minority myth, which cherry picks group outcomes following the passage of the Hart-Cellar Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which, thanks to the "whining," as you might derisively call it, of mostly Black civil rights activists, abolished racist quotas established in the 1924 National Origins Act, and lumps various groups from over two dozen different nationalities together so as to conceal the disadvantages and discrimination experienced most acutely by those who arrived without advantages in social capital and networking.

Seemingly no one who pushes this myth likes to acknowledge the first wave of Jewish immigrants in the United States, whose arrival did not result in the imposition of anti-Semitic caps on college admissions, or how they fared in their respective countries of origin.

The Jewish model minority myth in America relies implicitly on the success of a wave of Jewish immigrants who arrived in this country in urban centers (New York, primarily) from urban industrial centers, often armed with specialized and highly sought skills. Many Jewish laborers in New York found a niche in the garment industry, for example, at a time when the garment industry was growing two to three times faster than most other industries.

In "Education and Economic Mobility: The Jewish Experience in New York City, 1880-1920," Selma Berrol identifies evidence, such as school enrollment data, which sharply contradict claims that education fueled early Jewish American success. In New York City in 1908, for example, 25,534 Jewish students were enrolled in first grade, 11,527 in seventh grade, 2,549 in their freshman year of high school, and just 488 high school seniors. According to these data, Jewish children at the time were dropping out of school to enter the labor market. College enrollment figures at the time bear this out. Berrol summarizes: "most New York City Jews did not make the leap from poverty into the middle class by going to college. Rather, widespread utilization of secondary and higher education followed improvements in economic status and was as much a result as a cause of upward mobility."

So what's your argument here? Where's your evidence that "the community" engaged in some grand strategy, and that this strategy, rather than a confluence of circumstances facilitating employment in hot sectors from which Black Americans were largely excluded, is what sparked generational differences in group outcomes?

As far as I can tell, your belief leans entirely on an empty, self-serving bootstrap mythos, with no evidence of its disproportionate presence or absence among any group, save for useless anecdotes.

DISCLAIMER: I've been treated of racist, sexist, etc. Don't add antisemitism...I'm actually praising them

You're stereotyping them in a way that feeds into resentful, anti-Semitic, conspiracist thinking about Jewish success.

100% agree with this. But should this push to work even harder or to whine louder? To organize ourselves or to be content with what we have?

It is not reasonable to close achievement gaps by demanding that one group must be exemplary while another is permitted to be merely average. What collective progress has been made has come from addressing structural inequities.

What distinguishes anti-racist protest and organizing from "whining?" "Working hard" and acknowledging the persistence of systemic racist are not mutually exclusive actions.

For example: it could be claimed that you're now whining about "whining." Is it fair to assume, from this unflattering characterization, that you're lazy?

 

[Nouss]

From the article above;

One thing that white supremacists have always twisted is this: They ravage lands and oppress people, then ascribe the inevitable disastrous result of the ravaging and oppression to the victim’s character and capacity, rather than to their own callousness and cruelty.

In a sense, the fact that Black people in this country must struggle to live and to lead is one of white supremacy’s crowning achievements.

 

[TunedAirLombardy]

Truth? What truth? You posted a bunch of insulting generalizations about Black people globally on our forums, which were all but indistinguishable from Trump's racist comments about Black-led countries.

The same "generalizations" I've made about Afro-Americans, I've made them also about my people in my country. Guess I've been racist to myself also without realizing it.

You're stereotyping them in a way that feeds into resentful, anti-Semitic, conspiracist thinking about Jewish success.

Criticizing Afro-Americans is racism. Praising Jews is conspiracist and anti-semitic. Ok...

It is not reasonable to close achievement gaps by demanding that one group must be exemplary while another is permitted to be merely average. What collective progress has been made has come from addressing structural inequities.

With that logic, Algerians would've waited for France to graciously grant them independence. Hopefully they didn't, and instead, "were exemplary" in their fight and leaded the way for decolonization of Africa.

I just completely disagree with your statement in bold. You've pointed for me the root of the problem, and why we have opposite opinions. I'm satisfied with the debate and to me it is finished, because I believe that I now understand the logic behind all of your arguments and that I'll never agree to this, as you will never agree to the opposite.

If you expect to be fed just because you think -rightfully- that you deserve it...guess what: it won't happen. No one will grant you anything, you have to take it. That's how it -sadly- works.

One thing that white supremacists have always twisted is this: They ravage lands and oppress people, then ascribe the inevitable disastrous result of the ravaging and oppression to the victim’s character and capacity, rather than to their own callousness and cruelty.

In a sense, the fact that Black people in this country must struggle to live and to lead is one of white supremacy’s crowning achievements.

That's an observation I 1000% agree with yet the conclusion we each have from it differs so much.

 

[Methodical Management]

The same "generalizations" I've made about Afro-Americans, I've made them also about my people in my country. Guess I've been racist to myself also without realizing it.

Are you suggesting that there's no such thing as internalized racism?

Criticizing Afro-Americans is racism. Praising Jews is conspiracist and anti-semitic. Ok...

You didn't just criticize Black Americans - which is racist enough - you criticized Black people globally, for "whining" and purportedly failing to "organize" to your personal satisfaction, without bothering to specify what, exactly, this entails.

Explain to us why this differs from Trump's blatantly racist statements about Black-led countries.

Ask yourself what all anti-Semitic conspiracy theories have in common, then tell us again how the suggestion that all Jewish people's success stems from "global organization" - without evidence - constitutes "praise."

With that logic, Algerians would've waited for France to graciously grant them independence. Hopefully they didn't, and instead, "were exemplary" in their fight and leaded the way for decolonization of Africa.

With that logic?!

I'm referring to the need to acknowledge and dismantle structural barriers. If anything, your "bootstrap" mentality represents accommodationism and a demand to work within an unjust system.

You realize, too, that you're now simultaneously arguing that Algeria took the correct path, and yet failed to "organize" properly by your as yet unspecified standards. You can't have it both ways.

My point is that it's blatantly unjust to demand that every Black person be Barack Obama when White people can get away with being Donald Trump. It's all fine and well to encourage each individual to be the best they can be, but if we don't address systemic injustice then all you're really doing in the long run is placing the burden on Black people to compensate for and perpetuate a system that rewards White mediocrity.

I just completely disagree with your statement in bold. You've pointed for me the root of the problem, and why we have opposite opinions. I'm satisfied with the debate and to me it is finished, because I believe that I now understand the logic behind all of your arguments and that I'll never agree to this, as you will never agree to the opposite.

If you expect to be fed just because you think -rightfully- that you deserve it...guess what: it won't happen. No one will grant you anything, you have to take it. That's how it -sadly- works.

I suspect you're "satisfied" with exiting the debate because you've reached the outermost limits of your ability to continue to participate without presenting something other than a loose assembly of lazy stereotypes.

In other words, you threw all the stones in your pockets and now you're content to run away.


You're just sitting there from your comfortable perch in Canada hurling insults at everyone else, and you have the nerve to imply that those currently seeking equal rights are acting entitled?
You say you're criticizing "your people," but are you including yourself?

As a general rule of thumb: if you tell someone else to lift themselves up by their bootstraps, you'd better not be riding on your parents' shoulders.

 

[アミーゴ]

DCAllAfrican