LOST (GOAT SERIES) OFFICIAL THREAD VOL YOU CAN GO NOW.

[whywesteppin]

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Why wassnt Walt in the Church? or Aaron? or Ben's daughter?

Because Walt was too tall and Aaron was just born and was in the hospital.

 

[cherryred]

after a few of the first episodes people were guessing purgatory, and the writers denied it, but that's what we were given.lol

the ending was boring, and it sucked.

 i was hoping jacob and MiB would be these godly all knowing characters, but then their episode aired and we found out they didn't know #@%!. 

after that it just went down hill, and we were given an ending that happens every freaking week on ghost whisperer. *%%*

 

[reduce523]

Originally Posted by franchise3

EBW is a cool dude, but come on.

Walt and Aaron weren't special? This dude Walt had like super powers (it seemed) at times. Why did the Others want him so bad? The pyschic making sure Claire takes care of Aaron, or, impending doom? To the etc.

And for the other guy saying us asking questions are asking the wrong questions, as, it's Jack's story, I don't buy it.

You can fault some of us for questioning stuff when it was the WRITERS who drilled this stuff in our head to further the mysteries. We didn't make Dharma interactive websites like they did.

They're the ones who created and furthered the mystique, but when push came to shove, and the clock was running out, they opted to not answer most of the questions that they created.

They're the ones who opened up Pandora's box. Not us.

This is exactly how I feel alot of people are saying enjoy the ride. When I felt the whole time I was supposed to immerse myself in the show. And I thought the show was cool but I feel cheated.  What happened we had millions of mysteries and most either got explained all weak as in the whispers are stuck on the island and some just never touched like Walt.  But its over and no matter what it was still a cool show.

 

[franchise3]

But back to the finale, I've been reading some recaps and thoughts, and I read that Walt + Aaron + Ji Yeon, since they were babies/kids during this whole ordeal, they got to live their own lives, and that's why the island doesn't tie to them when they die.

Unlike the rest of the Losties who had to redeem themselves, find themselves, etc.

 

[extraordinary swag]

Yall aren't gonna get EBW to break

If they think the show is perfect, oh well to each there own. That "yall were focusing on the wrong things" reply is laughable to me when for 5 seasons they made an effort to say things/people were special or the island had power and etc. That's just too simple-minded of an excuse to me (no shots at EBW I'm aiming that to the writers), there are no struggles or character development without the activities that took place on the island. Yall can downplay it if you want but no matter if you are a STAN of this show or just a casual viewer I think ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN CAN TELL THIS ISN'T WHAT THE WRITERS HAD IN MIND FROM THE PILOT EPISODE

The writer's strike changed the story, I thought they admitted this on a podcast or something that they felt it would be cool to mess around with time travel. And I know they said they had BIG plans for Eko on the show but when he refused to come back they had to change the story up.

for the 100th time, I loved the show and how it ended. But I also don't have my Dharma blinders on and can see why some viewers may be disappointed. Let's all just wait for the DVD they have no reason to NOT give us answers

 

[onhollowedground821]

Originally Posted by franchise3

But back to the finale, I've been reading some recaps and thoughts, and I read that Walt + Aaron + Ji Yeon, since they were babies/kids during this whole ordeal, they got to live their own lives, and that's why the island doesn't tie to them when they die.

Unlike the rest of the Losties who had to redeem themselves, find themselves, etc.

Okay but Hurley didnt die yet and made it to the Church right? so he got to live his life and still be there in the Church when the time came, so why not the kids? make them adults and grown up then because some people die before and some after.....they are the after just like Hurley

 

[cadillacflow]

Jack = LOST

And I think Walt was special. But, how would they explain that really? His left inner lobe is larger than his right, or he was dropped on his head...When Ben told Locke he (Locke) was special... I took that as some people are born special Walt included.

The only things I think they maybe could have explained more was Dharma and then Ben led Others. Rumor is 20 extra minutes will be on the DVD. I hope those who felt shafted will get their answers then.

 

[captaincrown]

Originally Posted by franchise3

EBW is a cool dude, but come on.

Walt and Aaron weren't special? This dude Walt had like super powers (it seemed) at times. Why did the Others want him so bad? The pyschic making sure Claire takes care of Aaron, or, impending doom? To the etc.

And for the other guy saying us asking questions are asking the wrong questions, as, it's Jack's story, I don't buy it.

You can fault some of us for questioning stuff when it was the WRITERS who drilled this stuff in our head to further the mysteries. We didn't make Dharma interactive websites like they did.

They're the ones who created and furthered the mystique, but when push came to shove, and the clock was running out, they opted to not answer most of the questions that they created.

They're the ones who opened up Pandora's box. Not us.

Great Post. Really Great Post. I worked at Disney for four years and I never watched LOST once when I was working there. They made me sick of the show, promoting it with posters everywhere at the office, filling up my emails, and every time I logged into my computer I would get a LOST promotion. 
Those promotions never had anything to do with the characters, but the mystery, magic, and mythology of the island. They kept promoting these questions about the island and all these supernatural/special abilities. Never once did an email say LOST was about "The Life & Times of Jack Shepard."

 

[bombbiggidyphil]

Desmond to Jack- "none of this matters".......that's the cop out. writers basically telling us to forget about the island and all of the mysteries/questions/mythical island magic that came with it. just focus on this emotional conclusion and be happy that everyone is doing alright. As unsatisified as I am with all of the ignored questions and seemingly pointless subplots i have to admit they did a superb job of developing the characters. As far as a character piece goes, this was a complete success.

 

[dhart48]

got this off of DARKUFO, its someone's take from bad robot on the finale, hope this clears the smoke

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Source: SpoilerTV

 

[krazyg]

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Originally Posted by franchise3

EBW is a cool dude, but come on.

Walt and Aaron weren't special? This dude Walt had like super powers (it seemed) at times. Why did the Others want him so bad? The pyschic making sure Claire takes care of Aaron, or, impending doom? To the etc.

And for the other guy saying us asking questions are asking the wrong questions, as, it's Jack's story, I don't buy it.

You can fault some of us for questioning stuff when it was the WRITERS who drilled this stuff in our head to further the mysteries. We didn't make Dharma interactive websites like they did.

They're the ones who created and furthered the mystique, but when push came to shove, and the clock was running out, they opted to not answer most of the questions that they created.

They're the ones who opened up Pandora's box. Not us.

PREACH!

Ditto. The writers gave us a peak into Pandora's box, decided to close it, and say whatever was in that box isn't really that important...... It basically feels like the writers introduced all of these mysteries just to make people want to watch the show and invest time in researching it. Ratings were falling right? I guess they had to keep viewers interested some how.

 

[duba169]

if they didn't want to explain more about walt then they shouldn't have shown us that the kid can make birds drop out of the damn air.

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by DubA169

if they didn't want to explain more about walt then they shouldn't have shown us that the kid can make birds drop out of the damn air.

Just a coincidence. No biggie. The island made Walt seem much more special than he was.

Dudes still wondering about stuff from season 2 FTL.

Not explaining Walt ruins the show as a whole? Gimmmmme a break!!

 

[cherryred]

Originally Posted by dhart48

The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.


Source: SpoilerTV

If Jacob created MiB, then why didn't anyone else turn into a smoke monster by going in there? Why were Egyptians shown to have been there with a smoke monster?

It mad me made they didn't explain any of the Egyptian stuff.

 

 

[cadillacflow]

dhart - GREAT find. Thanks for posting.

 

[andy206]

after a day of school/work, it really sunk in that this show is over

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by CherryRed

Originally Posted by dhart48

The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.


Source: SpoilerTV

If Jacob created MiB, then why didn't anyone else turn into a smoke monster by going in there? Why were Egyptians shown to have been there with a smoke monster?

It mad me made they didn't explain any of the Egyptian stuff.

 

Desmond could handle going down there and Jack was a protecor, so they weren't just a regular person going "down the hatch" so to speak. Hurley and Ben didn't get close enough to the source to be altered by the darkness.

NEXT

 

[wings90]

Originally Posted by franchise3

What people are mad about is the past 5 seasons basically had no part in the end result. Richard's storyline for example. The numbers. Basically everything if you really think about it.

Yeah, it was a fun ride, but, not totally fulfilling.

Everybody had high expectations of getting answers, well, because we thought the writers had a method to their madness. Guess not.

Like I said, I loved the finale for what it is, but taking six seasons into account, it could've been a lot better.

Let's be real with ourselves. Season six as a whole has been a letdown. For dudes who wanted to 'end it at six seasons on our terms,' the writers sure didn't do a good job of satisfying the audience. Dogan, Zoe, the black powder to keep BSG at bay, the temple, all pretty much useless and unnecessary.

Totally sums up my view.

 

[dj236]

I think people are emphasizing the wrong point pertaining to MIB leaving the island.. I don't think the problem is with him leaving the island per se.. I think the problem lies in the fact that MIB needs to turn off the "source" of the island in order to leave. The source is the main problem. If it were to be put out that means that there would be serious problems with the world as a whole, not solely the island. We saw the beginning of this as the island began to fall apart once Desmond took out the "cork". I'm inclined to believe that taking the cork out of the island has major global implications. MIB's "mother" touched on this somewhat.

 

[cherryred]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by CherryRed

Originally Posted by dhart48

The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.


Source: SpoilerTV

If Jacob created MiB, then why didn't anyone else turn into a smoke monster by going in there? Why were Egyptians shown to have been there with a smoke monster?

It mad me made they didn't explain any of the Egyptian stuff.

 

Desmond could handle going down there and Jack was a protecor, so they weren't just a regular person going "down the hatch" so to speak. Hurley and Ben didn't get close enough to the source to be altered by the darkness.

NEXT

What about the other bodies that were down there?

Plus everything around that area looked man made, the plug even had drawings, which means people were down there before.

The mom seemed to imply there was a smoke monster before, that means Jacob wasn't the only one that had to deal with one.

Another thing, why didn't Jack have to say the magic spell to turn hurley?

 

[onhollowedground821]

Originally Posted by dhart48

got this off of DARKUFO, its someone's take from bad robot on the finale, hope this clears the smoke

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Source: SpoilerTV

GREAT FIND!!!.........this guy just told explained more then all of season 6 did lol

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by CherryRed

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by CherryRed

Originally Posted by dhart48

The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.


Source: SpoilerTV

If Jacob created MiB, then why didn't anyone else turn into a smoke monster by going in there? Why were Egyptians shown to have been there with a smoke monster?

It mad me made they didn't explain any of the Egyptian stuff.

 

Desmond could handle going down there and Jack was a protecor, so they weren't just a regular person going "down the hatch" so to speak. Hurley and Ben didn't get close enough to the source to be altered by the darkness.

NEXT

What about the other bodies that were down there?

Plus everything around that area looked man made, the plug even had drawings, which means people were down there before.

The mom seemed to imply there was a smoke monster before, that means Jacob wasn't the only one that had to deal with one.

Another thing, why didn't Jack have to say the magic spell to turn hurley?

The bodies died down there once the source was turned on. No other humans are able to find the source unless shown.

Jack didn't need the spell because that's how he ran things. Remember how Ben said "that's how Jacob ran things". Every protector has their own way.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Originally Posted by dhart48

got this off of DARKUFO, its someone's take from bad robot on the finale, hope this clears the smoke

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Source: SpoilerTV

GREAT FIND!!!.........this guy just told explained more then all of season 6 did lol

WOW excellent read.  I agree dude summarized it brilliantly.  And with that I am done with Lost and this thread.  Nothing more to add. It is what it is. I found the finale corny and too dramatic/cheezy but whatevers.  It's just another sitcom.

THE END!

 

[dhart48]

Originally Posted by CadillacFLOW

dhart - GREAT find. Thanks for posting.

no problem
i feel like nobody was listening when the writers said it was a CHARACTER DRIVEN show. If you're gonna bash LOST for not answering all the questions you might as well bash:
the chronicles of narnia,since they never really explain how a cabinet is the entrance to a completely different world with a talking lion or in the wizard of oz how a tornado can transport a girl to an emerald city with a yellow brick road with flying monkeys and a wicked witch.

. it's almost as if just because the title of the show didnt emphasize that magic or mythology would be included in its theme but not answered that gives everyone else the right to nitpick. just like the aforementioned movies above and the many more that i didnt name, you are just supposed to immerse yourself in the world and be entertained, its as believable as YOU want to make it. Im sure you guys walked out of who framed roger rabbit when they never really explained HOW the cartoons were real , or did you stay and just enjoy the ride.

not looking to argue at all this is just my point of view, i've been a fan of the show since day 1, throughout the past 6 seasons i have convinced numerous people that if they watch season 1 with an OPEN MIND they will be hooked, and they have been, no complaints

the show touched on great subjects like science vs faith, relationships with parents, drinking, doing really bad things(torturing, killing peeps in cold blood, and deserting one another) and trying to atone for those things over time. To me i got the closure i needed

 

[brownsuga1]

I must say, a great finale. And these are just some things I thought of, Iono, LOST presents many theories. I was always intrigued by Aaron. Ever since the psychic bugged out on Claire, I had a keen interest in him. At first I thought MIB's name was Aaron. But I was thinking, maybe Aaron is the next protector after Hurley? Maybe thats why he's so special? Who knows.

Second, I believe the cork was the thing that stopped hell on earth. When they unplugged it, I looked at it as if hell would unleash on Earth. So in essence, that's why the island would be so important, right? Or it could lead right to the core of the earth, which is why there is so much electromagnetism there.

To me Richard was important because without him, MIB would have never been able to kill Jacob. Richard is the one who took MIB and Ben to the foot. I just wanna know how Jacob knew to choose these people. He went to Sawyer and Kate at a young age unlike Jack when he went when he was much older. Also, how did he get off the island? There are million questions, but you take what you can get. It was an amazing show. Kind of makes me hope that what the afterlife is actually like.