MAKING A MURDERER | Season 2 on October 19th!

[mac2008]

I get it, I just didn't know if it was already mentioned. The thing that stood out to me is the fact that he says Theresa complained to her employer about Steven being "creepy", yet they still sent her out to his home when he specifically asked for her. Also, why would she go back if that is how she truly felt? The moment she realized who it was, she would've or at least should've turned around if he was that bad.

I know Kratz is a scumbag and in all honesty it wouldn't matter what he said or what "evidence" they had. It couldn't be trusted at all. The corruption went all the way to the top, so if Lenk and Coulbourn started it the town helped finish it by putting him away. That judge killed everything Steven's attorneys brought up. When Steven said they planted his blood, I was like how? When they showed the tampered evidence, and the needle hole I couldn't believe it. No accountability at all in this town. No explanation as to why a vial of blood had a syringe hole in it.

If a woman was killed in the house/garage via gun shot to the head, and slit throat how is there not one drop of blood anywhere in the house/garage. Makes no sense. For such a brutal murder, the evidence used to convict Steven was too much of a stretch. They making him out to be some kind of mastermind at killing and crime scene clean up. They should have had blood trails all over that place.

Agreed Katz is a scumbag.

Also just so everyone knows, the doc did a good job about mentioning a needle hole and then glossing over it. In purple top tubes, the needle hole is created when you are TAKING the sample. When you give blood the tube is attached to the needle. This is the general accepted procedure. When taking it out, you just take the top off. Still the seal being broken is not acceptable.

 

[Hahahaha]

We talking about the guy that was sexually harassing victims of sexual abuse and rape? The guy telling them he makes 6 figures and asking if the women like old married men? Yeah, I don't give a **** about what he has to say when it comes to ANYTHING. I'm curious if the guy even knows what evidence means. He throws it around so freely but doesn't have any.

 

[mac2008]

We talking about the guy that was sexually harassing victims of sexual abuse and rape? The guy telling them he makes 6 figures and asking if the women like old married men? Yeah, I don't give a **** about what he has to say when it comes to ANYTHING. I'm curious if the guy even knows what evidence means. He throws it around so freely but doesn't have any.

That's fair. But if there is sources to see the stuff is true, does it become not true because he says them? Like he's not a good person, but there are transcripts, phone records, interviews supporting most of that stuff. No one is taking his "word" for it.

 

[Benny Hinn]

Still haven't read any so called missing evidence that's damning for Steven other than his sweat on the key. Bullet casings in the garage yet none of her dna is on the concrete? Cmon fam.

That's what I keep coming back to when I start to believe SA did it. I want to believe we have the right guy in prison. Especially with his past history of sexual assaults.

But for that bullet to be there we have to assume she was murdered there. But then where's the crime scene? If she wasn't murdered there then the bullet had to have been planted by Lenk.

So maybe SA killed her somewhere else and Lenk foolishly planted the key and bullet to ensure he's convicted?

This is such a strange case. If it wasn't for the key and bullet then it's pretty safe to assume SA killed her somewhere else, put her body in her car, and burned her in his property. Case closed.

 

[mac2008]

That's what I keep coming back to when I start to believe SA did it. I want to believe we have the right guy in prison. Especially with his past history of sexual assaults.

But for that bullet to be there we have to assume she was murdered there. But then where's the crime scene? If she wasn't murdered there then it had to have been planted by Lenk.

So maybe SA killed her someone else and Lenk foolishly planted the key and bullet to ensure he's convicted?

This is such a strange case. If it wasn't for the key and bullet then it's pretty safe to assume SA killed her somewhere else, put her body in her car, and burned her in his property. Case closed.

Them planting things to ensure conviction is what I think could've happened. Avery defense even mentions this, though he is sayin he was framed AND innocent. Those two aren't don't have to both be the case. Also, if the key was never found I think it's safe to say he still gets convicted and this doc is never made.

 

[friscostylez]

I

Still haven't read any so called missing evidence that's damning for Steven other than his sweat on the key. Bullet casings in the garage yet none of her dna is on the concrete? Cmon fam.

That's what I keep coming back to when I start to believe SA did it. I want to believe we have the right guy in prison. Especially with his past history of sexual assaults.

But for that bullet to be there we have to assume she was murdered there. But then where's the crime scene? If she wasn't murdered there then the bullet had to have been planted by Lenk.

So maybe SA killed her somewhere else and Lenk foolishly planted the key and bullet to ensure he's convicted?

This is such a strange case. If it wasn't for the key and bullet then it's pretty safe to assume SA killed her somewhere else, put her body in her car, and burned her in his property. Case closed.

yeah man, there's no doubt that there was evidence planted. if steven avery didn't do it, one of his family member did it to frame him.

 

[spiceman80]

The bigger issue here is the fact that these police officers are so hell bent on convicting Steven, that the real killer is still out there. While he was locked up, the real rapist was on the streets committing crimes. I was wondering if the victims of Gregory Allen can sue Mantiwoc police for knowingly allowing him to remain free on streets for all those years?

 

[Cashflow]

He cites Halbach's Oct. 10, 2005 visit to the property owned by Avery's family for a photo shoot for AutoTrader magazine: According to Kratz, Avery allegedly opened his door "just wearing a towel."

Answering the door in the towel means he was plotting? I call shenanigans if Theresa was that scared of Avery, she would have never went back to the Auto Yard. Barb's house wasessentially right next to Steve's. I don't buy that she went there because she thought she'd be dealing with Barb. Where are we suppose to believe Steve Avery was going to be? I'm sure Auto Trader had other photographers

 

[mac2008]

Answering the door in the towel means he was plotting? I call shenanigans if Theresa was that scared of Avery, she would have never went back to the Auto Yard. Barb's house wasessentially right next to Steve's. I don't buy that she went there because she thought she'd be dealing with Barb. Where are we suppose to believe Steve Avery was going to be? I'm sure Auto Trader had other photographers

She was requested. Specifically

I haven't seen anything saying she was afraid of Avery. Only that she showed up and he was in a towel and it was gross.

 

[filthyjiujitsu]

Was it Avery that harassed her through phone? They gloss over who it was in the documentary.

 

[mac2008]

Was it Avery that harassed her through phone? They gloss over who it was in the documentary.

Doubt it. This was some the defense points out, attempting to show doubt by showing someone else was harassing her. Wouldn't have mentioned it without going through phone records.

 

[boxer15]

This documentary gives off the feeling that the midwest is some kind of Napoleon Dynamite time warp.  All these people dressing like it's the early 90s with Jnco Jeans and all that garbage.

 

[babygawd]

I honestly think it was Brendan's brother Bobby or whatever his name is along with Steven's brother in law Scott. They seemed shady as hell during their interviews.

 

[BANLEU]

Possibly. But then again there was nothing to connect them to her the day she went missing. They had someone who agreed to have been the last person she had contact with. And he called and went to her vm after she was seen at his place. I'm guessing they had a pretty good idea who deleted the msg. I'm not sure what the phone records showed about when those two called her, I'm sure they went to vm too in the following days. I'm not sure there could be any possible motive for brother. And doc doesn't mention that the ex was her ex from 2001.

Wait he was her ex from 2001 and he was somehow able to hack her phone records and voicemail? Seems even more suspicious to me.

 

[00david00]

Finished this over the last two days... definitely a lot to take in. Very compelling series that left me speechless repeatedly.

Don't see how he could possibly clean up all the blood in the room or garage (wherever the murder was supposed to have taken place). Just seems too sophisticated to me, considering he would leave a key in plain view and smear his blood in the car. Then I try to think about how all of it would work itself out the way it did, and can't come to any reasonable conclusion. Hard to make sense of it.

So much of this trial was mind boggling. How many times did we hear about occurrences that would never happen in any other court room. Different professionals talking about how they have never seen x or y happen before. It would all be so silly if it wasn't real, so instead it's disturbing.

Not surprised to see Kratz shady self getting caught up later on. I think a lot of things about this case will make more sense over time because of the booming national attention now. I mean in terms of people exposing themselves, things leaking out, etc. Whichever way it goes.

Lawyer said it best when he talked about how if Avery actually did the crime, it would be a relief mentally (paraphrasing). If he didn't do it the whole thing is just insanely tragic to think about.. not only in the context of one person and his family, which is unfortunate enough, but the systemic lack of any sort of "checks and balances".

Watching his parents cope with it over the years was sad as hell.

 

[moonman818]

I'm like 7 episodes in... The major points I don't understand how this case wasn't thrown out:

If she was raped/stabbed/shot etc. how is there no damn Dna anywhere in his room or his garage

Why was the key that she used for who knows how long absent of any of her dna? Makes absolutely no sense.

Why wouldn't the messages being deleted on her voicemail after she was supposedly killed/missing not be relevant to the case?

Why was shady *** Lenk the only person to find this physical evidence?

You can just look at that dude Colburn and tell he's shady as ****.


These are key witnesses and they all had their lies exposed on the stand but the jury still took their testimony as credible.


This **** straight up is pissing me off man [emoji]128545[/emoji][emoji]128545[/emoji][emoji]128545[/emoji][emoji]128545[/emoji]


Steve shoulda just left town after he filed that lawsuit against the county

 

[marcielago]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

 

[hymen man]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

nicely stated, repped

 

[donovandoesit]

I just noticed while watching it again with the gf that they literally mentioned in the video where they were searching his property " let's take all his shoes just in case there are any unsolved burglaries with shoe imprints"

 

[Benny Hinn]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

That's the problem. There's more than enough reasonable doubt in this case. It's the burden of the prosecution to prove without reasonable doubt that he's guilty. Not the other way around.

 

[marcielago]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

That's the problem. There's more than enough reasonable doubt in this case. It's the burden of the prosecution to prove without reasonable doubt that he's guilty. Not the other way around.

Agree 100%. The way he was convicted was definitely foul. I do feel like there were things brought up in the trial that the doc didn't show, but the fact that there was evidence which showed signs of tampering coupled with the huge conflict of interest on behalf of the Manitowoc county PD, should have been enough to get the case dropped. No way they proved, for certain, that he was guilty. At least not legally.

Still, doesn't mean he's innocent.

 

[getback]

Had a dream that I was at my job and had some type of disciplinary hearing. All of my co-workers wrote false matching statements implicating me in a sexual harassment situation. Definitely been watching too much Making a Murderer

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

I honestly don't take Brendan's so called confession into account whatsoever. The kids lawyer & investigator were working to prove him guilty :x Seasoned professionals working with a low iq child to get him to confess. Cmon man.

That alone should've granted the kid a mistrial. Just watching the segment about him was :x

 

[mac2008]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

Respect.
Maybe if I could've laid it out as well as you, I wouldn't have got so much hate lol. But I completely understand that ppl are so interested in this doc that they take it as the final word on the case. I watched it too, and felt the same way. But I just can't help but be amused by how far people will go to say there is no way that he did it. The irony keeps me interested in posting in this thread.

 

[natrix916]

subscribed... will start watching and catch up on this thread