MAKING A MURDERER | Season 2 on October 19th!

[mac2008]

- you can doubt the bus driver all you want, she gave her testimony. She is actually the person people trust the most because she isn't related to the case at all. But if you just doubt it then thats fine

- My point with EDTA is the test has been done before and EDTA was found. Of course this destroyed Avery's defense so they did what they had to do to raise doubts.

- the lab found th DNA on the bullet. The bullet was not contaminated at all. The other test was contaminated. If you want to say you don't trust that her DNA was really on the bullet because the other test got messed up, then that's fine.

- No blood in the house vs her truck is simply, one was cleaned, one wasn't ... I imagine Steve was planning on destroying the car when he thought he had a chance.

- the pants with bleach stains was presented as evidence in Dassey trial. Can find in his transcripts.

- I'm sorry to laugh At your last line but , him lying about having a Bonfire that night is due to his low IQ? I mean I agree it was dumb to deny it with so many people saying that he did but cmon man.

 

[BANLEU]

- you can doubt the bus driver all you want, she gave her testimony. She is actually the person people trust the most because she isn't related to the case at all. But if you just doubt it then thats fine

- My point with EDTA is the test has been done before and EDTA was found. Of course this destroyed Avery's defense so they did what they had to do to raise doubts.

- the lab found th DNA on the bullet. The bullet was not contaminated at all. The other test was contaminated. If you want to say you don't trust that her DNA was really on the bullet because the other test got messed up, then that's fine.

- No blood in the house vs her truck is simply, one was cleaned, one wasn't ... I imagine Steve was planning on destroying the car when he thought he had a chance.

- the pants with bleach stains was presented as evidence in Dassey trial. Can find in his transcripts.

- I'm sorry to laugh At your last line but , him lying about having a Bonfire that night is due to his low IQ? I mean I agree it was dumb to deny it with so many people saying that he did but cmon man.

Maybe you misread what I wrote. I never doubted the driver. I doubted that the murder could have happened so quickly between the time the driver saw Halbach (4:00) and the time that Avery calls her (4:30). Half and hour seems like too short of a time span for her to have been raped twice, stabbed, sliced, and shot.

See Dondada's post about he fbi and EDTA. If the house was in fact cleaned, you would think they would have found evidence of bleach in his house or on the restraints or anywhere at all, but it doesn't seem like they did find any of that. In fact, there was no evidence that Halbach was ever in his room or garage other than the bullet, which could have been planted.

Also, I'm not sure what test you're referring to, but the doc makes it clear that the DNA on the bullet was contaminated by the tech. Lastly, it's clear that those detectives were using misleading tactics to interrogate both Avery and Dassey's. It's possible that his low IQ led him to misinterpret the question and that's why he said he didn't have a bonfire. The point is that Avery should have the benefit of a doubt and the prosecution was responsible for eliminating that doubt. In my mind, they didn't do that because there are too many unanswered questions. That's why I can't say he's guilty or that he did it definitively.

 

[mac2008]

Maybe you misread what I wrote. I never doubted the driver. I doubted that the murder could have happened so quickly between the time the driver saw Halbach (4:00) and the time that Avery calls her (4:30). Half and hour seems like too short of a time span for her to have been raped twice, stabbed, sliced, and shot.

See Dondada's post about he fbi and EDTA. If the house was in fact cleaned, you would think they would have found evidence of bleach in his house or on the restraints or anywhere at all, but it doesn't seem like they did find any of that. In fact, there was no evidence that Halbach was ever in his room or garage other than the bullet, which could have been planted.

Also, I'm not sure what test you're referring to, but the doc makes it clear that the DNA on the bullet was contaminated by the tech. Lastly, it's clear that those detectives were using misleading tactics to interrogate both Avery and Dassey's. It's possible that his low IQ led him to misinterpret the question and that's why he said he didn't have a bonfire. The point is that Avery should have the benefit of a doubt and the prosecution was responsible for eliminating that doubt. In my mind, they didn't do that because there are too many unanswered questions. That's why I can't say he's guilty or that he did it definitively.

The problem is your going by the doc. Yes, the doc does a good job making it seem the bullet was contaminated. It wasn't. It was the control sample. Bleach was found on garage floor. I believe that is in the trial transcripts as well. People have to realize the documentary doesn't show everything and it is edited. Which is fine, but ppl assume that's the whole story. I'm not going to continue to go back and forth about all of these things because I would have to question your intelligence if you believe all these counter points. I know you are not dumb, you are just going to do whatever to prove the doc narrative.

- yes police used tactics in the interviews, they do this In ALL interviews.

 

[Cashflow]

And you're going simply by Reddit. Your arguements are just as flawed.

 

[macbk]

Been dying to jump into this thread but I'm only up to episode 7 and have zero clue of the outcome (even outside of the doc). I've done a great job not clicking on any article links and the like .

 

[DadNboujee]

i'm in the minority of Adnan killed Hae..

so i'm starting this how to make a murderer today

 

[youngpablo]

Spoiler

Really said. Dude said "what does inconsistent mean", "I don't know." I just felt bad after that, and when he said, "I'm stupid Mom." Damn he's never had a chance.

Started last night and im on eposode 8 already.....yea b...theyre IQ was in the 70's i believe...the cops def took advantage of that.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Insane.

That ex bf is so suspicious man.

All mother ******* day.

This documentary series was extremely depressing to watch. I spent all last Sunday watching. My gf started watching with me and lost interest a few episodes in. One question she had was why did they choose to focus on a white dude when this happens to black and Mexicans all the time. My thought was it made it more relatable to a larger audience and kills the viewpoint that minorities usually bring it upon themselves.

A couple random thoughts:

--dude should've left town when his civil trial was pending
--dude was a jackass for thinking he was safe in that town after making fools of the police
--the nephew needed his *** kicked
--his gf was only down when she thought he was a pay day
--this is why I left the south
--whoever came up with idea to document 10 years of this is a genius

 

[mac2008]

And you're going simply by Reddit. Your arguements are just as flawed.

I will question your intelligence, however. Reddit feels same way you do. I'm basing it off the entire trial and evidence. Not the evidence that is shown in the show.

 

[mac2008]

i'm in the minority of Adnan killed Hae..

so i'm starting this how to make a murderer today

Lol I think Adnan killed Hae. I think most people do, just not the people who are in the forums talking about it.

 

[blkrstr21]

just finished binge watching and thought it was a great documentary!

its crazy to me that this stuff actually happens. corruption, framing, and assumed guilt/innocence aside, I had no idea our justice system was that a skewed. i get that its far from being anything we would consider fair, but geez some things in this documentary were just bizarre. like, dude really writes a report 8 years after the fact and is still thought to be a credible witness? and if the kid was really that inept, shouldnt they be able to bring in a psychologist or expert or something to show that he really was incapable of telling the truth?

 

[marcielago]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

I think one thing that you and mac aren't taking into account in regard to Dassey is his intellectual level and possible learning disability. I'm not a child psychologist or speech expert, but I do know a bit about special education and I can't stress enough the role that this could have played.

Also, how do we know that the stabbing and raping portion are even accurate? That's the police's theory of what happened based on his questioning, but there is no evidence that points to her being stabbed, raped, or throat cut because her body was cremated. He easily could have made all that up because he thought that it's what the police wanted to hear. The only physical evidence is that she was shot in the head, which is based on the bullet marks found on the skull fragments.

- Avery was last person to see her Alive(he admits this, not disputed.) her cell phone activity stops during the time she was at Avery's. ( this alone is HUGE) can throw in th was asked specifically to come take pics. The appointment was made in Barbs name. I believe it was her van, though no one disputes that Avery was always the one who was gonna interact with th. She also commented on being at his property before and he showed up in towel only. She said it was gross.

[COLOR=#red] I don't think the cell phone activity stopping is as damming as you make it seem. Just because it stopped when she got to Avery's doesn't mean that she couldn't have been killed by someone else after she left his property or that someone else associated with Avery could have killed her (i.e. Bobby or Scott). [/COLOR]​

- Avery's phone called th the day of the murder. The first two calls were *67', third one was made at 430, witnesses and Avery say she was already at his property at this time. This call was NOT blocked with *67.

[COLOR=#red]The only person putting her on the property around 4:00 was the bus driver and judging by the simplicity of her transaction with Avery it's likely that she was gone by 4:30. Avery may have called because he forgot something. Again, I don't think the *67 stuff or the calls is that damming. [/COLOR]​

- th purse and contents were found in barrel 20 ft from Avery's door.Bobby Dassey says he saw Avery put bag in barrel before he left hunting. Brendan also says he saw her purse and camera in this barrel.

[COLOR=#red]It's likely that Brendan heard Bobby say this sometime after Avery was arrested and he was just repeating it. Again, I don't think either Bobby or Scott were investigated enough. [/COLOR]​

p
- Avery purchased sex restraints 3 weeks before the murder. Brendan's confession seems to show this type of thing was used.

[COLOR=#red]I looked through some of the links you provided but I couldn't find anything about these restraints? Even if he did purchase restraints, were they ever found or tested for evidence?The lab technician admitted that Halbach's DNA wasn't found on anything but the car and the bullet[/COLOR]​

- Avery was already about to be charged with sexual Abuse from a family member. Also Brendan talks to his mom about Avery's inappropriate sexual behavior. She seemed to know already. Also can throw in the lighting a cat on fire incident. Shows Avery has a lack of empathy at the very least.

[COLOR=#red]So every person that harms animals lacks empathy and could be a cold-blooded killer/rapist? I guess it's just a matter of time before Mike Vick kills someone, right?[/COLOR]​

- His DNA was in car. By ignition and he also had a cut on his right hand. Also, none blood DNA found on hood latch of car. EDTA was found in his vial of blood but not found in car sample. These tests are not common but in OJ case, same type of test was done and EDTA was detected. So it is possible to detect. If you read defense expert trial transcripts, she didn't really say anything other than she's unfamiliar with the procedure.

[COLOR=#red]If I'm not mistaken, they said the EDTA tests hadn't been done by the FBI or any other company in many years (10?) possibly because the tests aren't accurate enough. Also, didn't the FBI only test three of the six samples and then extrapolate their results from their? Idc what you say, but that isn't good science.[/COLOR]​

- bullet found in his garage with th DNA matched the gun that was kept in his room. (Think doc only mentions it matches type. It matched specifically)

[COLOR=#red]The defense never argued that the bullet didn't match his gun or that he didn't fire it. They argued that the test that found Halbach's DNA on the bullet was invalid because it was contaminated. If I remember correctly, they found 10 other shell casings but only one bullet. Why weren't other bullets recovered? [/COLOR]​

- Bobby Dassey returns home the night of the murder with bleach on his pants. His mom confirmed and so did testing. He told his mom he was helping Avery clean his garage. Now he says this, to his mom, night of the murder. Before his confession. During confession he admits he was cleaning blood with bleach, gas and paint thinner. ( I can't find where I say this next part admittedly, but think it was in Dassey trial transcripts.) bleach was detected on sa floor.

[COLOR=#red]I didn't see anything about bleach being found on Dassey's clothes. But even if there was, he wasn't a suspect until 5 months after Avery was arrested. Isn't it possible that his clothes could have gotten bleached at some point during that time? Also, I distincly remember the defense arguing that Avery's floor hadn't been bleached because his DNA was found on it and hers wasn't. [/COLOR]​

- vehicle found on his property. ( want to point out something the doc says. Doc does a good job questioning why Acery didn't crush the car. What iUT26EH64A2BD/COLOR][/INDENT]

@mac2013 in red is my rebuttal to some of your points. I know I'm not going to convince you, but I thought I'd at least offer some explanation/alternate theory.

You also mentioned on another page that Avery and Dassey could have burned the sheets, but that still doesn't explain why her blood was never found on the bed? If her throat was in fact cut then there would have been everywhere and likely would have stained the bed through the sheets.

Also, it's hard to imagine that someone in Halbach's position didn't sweat out of fear and yet no sweat or other forms of DNA was found in his room. People question the lack of blood because of the manner in which the police say he killed her.

More importantly, if he did stab her or cut her throat, then why take her to the garage at all? She would have bled out or succumbed to the stabbing eventually. It just doesn't make sense that he would take her to another part of his property to shoot her in the head when that likely wasn't needed.

The police framing him isn't that ridiculous either when you consider that they did it once before and that they were facing a $30 million lawsuit. That would have been incentive enough to frame him. That scumbag officer that said they easily could have killed Avery instead of framing him is full of it. Killing him would have been much more suspicious than framing him.

Personally, I think that someone else killed her and the police again ignored those leads and planted evidence to make sure that Avery got convicted.

Brendan's mental capacity is something I definitely took into account while watching the doc. I actually know a great deal about special education and deeply sympathized with Brendan as I watched. However, reading his transcripts definitely raised some questions for me. I'm not saying he couldn't have been manipulated because he definitely could have been. The cops did use some shady tactics during the investigation (some of them being a little frustrating to read. Like how they actually obtained the bleach stained pants). Not shady in the sense of them feeding him information, but more so in the sense of there's no lawyer present so we can get you to answer all of our questions without anyone telling you not to. That doesn't mean he didn't play a part in the events, just that if he had a competent and protective lawyer (which Kashinsky clearly wasn't), they wouldn't have gotten as much info out of him. Like I said, a lot of times they would just let him talk without interjecting and he would paint a pretty vivid picture of what happened. Even to the point where he would correct the officers on certain events.

His confession doesn't explain, at least to me, a lot of other questions though. Such as the lack of blood at the scene, or DNA in the house, or the key, etc. etc. Which is why I can't say for certain Steven is guilty. But there's also enough contradictory evidence to show that he's not innocent at the same time. Like I said none of us really know. The only ones that do are Brendan, Steve and Teresa, and she won't be telling anybody.

 

[crod6926]

Has there been a Background story about T. Halbach. I know it's nothing but the video in episode 2 kept me wondering about her and whoever was filming that (possibly weird emotionless brother?) video. Sounded like she wanted to die or something at a young age.

Most evidence like it has been discussed here didn't point to Avery since it was all fabricated and chewed up and spit out by Averys lawyers.

I think in order for him to be a free man will take finding whoever really did do that to her. There were too many weird things that were overlooked:
Cellphone voice messages
License plate being reported before knowing car disappeared.

Just too much man

 

[Cashflow]

I will question your intelligence, however. Reddit feels same way you do. I'm basing it off the entire trial and evidence. Not the evidence that is shown in the show.

You're picking out random Reddit threads that support your point of view. You can't cite anything from the trial transcripts. You bring up "evidence" that wasn't even allowed to be admitted into the trial. But somehow your version and opinion of how things transpired is supposed ti be taken as a fact.

 

[Benny Hinn]

I will question your intelligence, however. Reddit feels same way you do. I'm basing it off the entire trial and evidence. Not the evidence that is shown in the show.

You're picking out random Reddit threads that support your point of view. You can't cite anything from the trial transcripts. You bring up "evidence" that wasn't even allowed to be admitted into the trial. But somehow your version and opinion of how things transpired is supposed ti be taken as a fact.

Some of the "evidence" he keeps talking about was only mentioned in Kratz opening statements. That's it. It wasn't even allowed during the trial.

I'll give this guy credit for his determination. You would think he was on Kratz payroll

 

[mac2008]

Some of the "evidence" he keeps talking about was only mentioned in Kratz opening statements. That's it. It wasn't even allowed during the trial.

I'll give this guy credit for his determination. You would think he was on Kratz payroll

NONE of stuff I post is ONLY from kratz or Reddit. Any Reddit thread I posted, was posted because it had full trial transcripts in them. Stop being lazy and look into this stuff. I have posted Dropbox links for the transcripts of Dasseys entire trial. You are looking pathetic. Both of you.

Just Incase others are lazy like these two. Here are some of my links I have posted since page 14 or so.
http://archive.htrnews.com/article/99999999/MAN0101/60420064/Avery-assault-charges-delayed

Here is news at the time talking about delaying Averys sexual abuse case and proceeding with murder trial


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubsv7f29l7j4e1b/dassey_mom_5_13_06.pdf?dl=0
Here is full transcript of Dassey phone call to mom. Doc leaves out part where they discuss Averys sexual abuse on the kids

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrlpwg8i7ijgl40/dassey_4_18_07.pdf?dl=0
Here is report of Kayla telling the story of Brendan telling her he saw a body that night to her school counselor.


http://archive.postcrescent.com/article/99999999/APC0101/303070033/Defense-chemist-spar-over-tests
Showing vial was tested for edta

http://www.riverfallsjournal.com/content/prosecutors-try-show-avery-lured-halbach
Article about the testimony of the *67 calls. I see since ppl are too lazy to read transcripts, these articles which source the trial will make it easier for you


https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAAIBAJ&sjid=vI4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=1743,56083&hl=en
Article about restraints.

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2015/12/22/steven-avery-case-timeline/77742664/
This talks about her purse contents in barrel





Here are cash flows favorite links. These are Reddit links. Though if you actually click them you will see they are threads with ALL Dassey trial and interview transcripts. Also has full unedited video of his confessions. These are probably the best links out of them all. In the trial transcripts you will find the bleached pants. Along with many other things the doc doesn't have.

Now please question my sources again, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself.

 

[cashbanks]

I just want to know who really did this

 

[cashbanks]

The one good thing about this is white America gets it put it their face how flawed this system is

 

[Cashflow]

Nothing you just posted solidified any of your claims. The officers told Brendan he sold crack. If you can't see how much of a joke this is then I honestly don't know what to say at this point. Keep up the good work Ken Katz Jr.

 

[gil23]

Haven't been here in 5 days ..... Is that Mac dude still in the thread ??

 

[the 7th mile]

So I stayed outta the thread until I finished...I just KNEW that they were gonna let them both out eventually based on all the evidence, there was more than enough to establish reasonable doubt..Cops dirty as ****.

Brendan is so ignorant and it's sad, they used him and painted him as monster just to get to Steve. Kachinski was just a terrible lawyer and served Brendan to the prosecution on a platter. Steve should have paid for Brendan's defense, he had two excellent defense lawyers, one of them could have been used for Brendan but I understand why he didn't...

 

[Mark Antony]

Long post so I'll put in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Why are y'all going so hard at mac? You guys are coming at him like Steven is a member of your own family . All he's doing is giving his opinion on why he thinks Avery is guilty (like a few of you asked for in the beginning of the thread), and when he does you guys proceed to bash him for it. It's funny because he's not even doing it on some "He's guilty because I say so. No I don't need evidence. Nah nah na nah nah" trolling type ish. He's actually providing information with sources to back his opinion that anyone with an open mind could read for themselves and then make an informed decision to either agree or disagree. Dude isn't even saying he would convict Steve since he agrees that the police in that county were shady as hell and quite possibly tampered with evidence. Only that he believes he's guilty after researching the case for himself.

Initially I too believed Steve was completely and 100% innocent. I voted "yes" in the tread, signed the petition, brought this documentary up to coworkers and expressed my outrage, etc, etc. But after reading a couple of the links Mac posted in here, I'm not so sure. No I'm not saying he did it, just that I'm not certain he didn't. So far I've only been reading the transcripts of Brendan's interviews and a lot of things don't add up. Some of the details he gives seem too personal to be coerced. Like how he couldn't look when Steve shot her because he "Can't watch stuff like that", or how he didn't ejaculate when he had sex with Teresa (they even ask him if he knows what sex is and in his own words he says its when a guy puts his penis in a girl's vagina).

One thing I noticed is that all of his answers weren't one word like the doc portrayed them to be. There were plenty of times where they would just let him talk without interjecting and it felt like, at least to me, like he was covering something up. It sounded less like he was being fed answers and more like a kid lying his way out of something. It was like a mix of lies, half truths and hard facts. Some of the things he said didn't even make sense to the interviewers. A lot of things he knew truthfully (his level of involvement, Steve's level, who carried her to the garage, what she said while it was happening), and other things he guessed on (the times certain events happened, the length of the knife, how far in he stabbed her; which by the way, he admitted to lying about her throat being slit. They each stabbed her once - Steve first in the chest and then Brendan in the stomach). Other times his story would completely change and you'd get new details that were never mentioned before (like how Steve and him planned it a few days prior, or how he went over there earlier in the day and Steve came out the trailer sweating -Teresa was already there - and he told Brendan to go home and he'd call him later to come over).

I haven't read through all of the links that have been posted yet, but just the few I have read leave me with doubts of Steve's innocence. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty, just that I'm not sure he's innocent. I sincerely hope he is innocent. I would be pissed at the way this documentary had me so emotionally invested in this man's story, only to find out he really did do it . But, in keeping an open mind, I know that there are 3 sides to every story and none of us knows the truth. It's impossible for us to know because we weren't there. All we can do is give our opinions and the more informed it is, the better.

Side note: those of you feeling for Brendan not being able to watch Wrestlemania, he actually did. He just caught the last 15 minutes of it though

I think one thing that you and mac aren't taking into account in regard to Dassey is his intellectual level and possible learning disability. I'm not a child psychologist or speech expert, but I do know a bit about special education and I can't stress enough the role that this could have played.

Also, how do we know that the stabbing and raping portion are even accurate? That's the police's theory of what happened based on his questioning, but there is no evidence that points to her being stabbed, raped, or throat cut because her body was cremated. He easily could have made all that up because he thought that it's what the police wanted to hear. The only physical evidence is that she was shot in the head, which is based on the bullet marks found on the skull fragments.

- Avery was last person to see her Alive(he admits this, not disputed.) her cell phone activity stops during the time she was at Avery's. ( this alone is HUGE) can throw in th was asked specifically to come take pics. The appointment was made in Barbs name. I believe it was her van, though no one disputes that Avery was always the one who was gonna interact with th. She also commented on being at his property before and he showed up in towel only. She said it was gross.

[COLOR=#red] I don't think the cell phone activity stopping is as damming as you make it seem. Just because it stopped when she got to Avery's doesn't mean that she couldn't have been killed by someone else after she left his property or that someone else associated with Avery could have killed her (i.e. Bobby or Scott). [/COLOR]​

- Avery's phone called th the day of the murder. The first two calls were *67', third one was made at 430, witnesses and Avery say she was already at his property at this time. This call was NOT blocked with *67.

[COLOR=#red]The only person putting her on the property around 4:00 was the bus driver and judging by the simplicity of her transaction with Avery it's likely that she was gone by 4:30. Avery may have called because he forgot something. Again, I don't think the *67 stuff or the calls is that damming. [/COLOR]​

- th purse and contents were found in barrel 20 ft from Avery's door.Bobby Dassey says he saw Avery put bag in barrel before he left hunting. Brendan also says he saw her purse and camera in this barrel.

[COLOR=#red]It's likely that Brendan heard Bobby say this sometime after Avery was arrested and he was just repeating it. Again, I don't think either Bobby or Scott were investigated enough. [/COLOR]​

- Avery purchased sex restraints 3 weeks before the murder. Brendan's confession seems to show this type of thing was used.

[COLOR=#red]I looked through some of the links you provided but I couldn't find anything about these restraints? Even if he did purchase restraints, were they ever found or tested for evidence?The lab technician admitted that Halbach's DNA wasn't found on anything but the car and the bullet[/COLOR]​

- Avery was already about to be charged with sexual Abuse from a family member. Also Brendan talks to his mom about Avery's inappropriate sexual behavior. She seemed to know already. Also can throw in the lighting a cat on fire incident. Shows Avery has a lack of empathy at the very least.

[COLOR=#red]So every person that harms animals lacks empathy and could be a cold-blooded killer/rapist? I guess it's just a matter of time before Mike Vick kills someone, right?[/COLOR]​

- His DNA was in car. By ignition and he also had a cut on his right hand. Also, none blood DNA found on hood latch of car. EDTA was found in his vial of blood but not found in car sample. These tests are not common but in OJ case, same type of test was done and EDTA was detected. So it is possible to detect. If you read defense expert trial transcripts, she didn't really say anything other than she's unfamiliar with the procedure.

[COLOR=#red]If I'm not mistaken, they said the EDTA tests hadn't been done by the FBI or any other company in many years (10?) possibly because the tests aren't accurate enough. Also, didn't the FBI only test three of the six samples and then extrapolate their results from their? Idc what you say, but that isn't good science.[/COLOR]​

- bullet found in his garage with th DNA matched the gun that was kept in his room. (Think doc only mentions it matches type. It matched specifically)

[COLOR=#red]The defense never argued that the bullet didn't match his gun or that he didn't fire it. They argued that the test that found Halbach's DNA on the bullet was invalid because it was contaminated. If I remember correctly, they found 10 other shell casings but only one bullet. Why weren't other bullets recovered? [/COLOR]​

- Bobby Dassey returns home the night of the murder with bleach on his pants. His mom confirmed and so did testing. He told his mom he was helping Avery clean his garage. Now he says this, to his mom, night of the murder. Before his confession. During confession he admits he was cleaning blood with bleach, gas and paint thinner. ( I can't find where I say this next part admittedly, but think it was in Dassey trial transcripts.) bleach was detected on sa floor.

[COLOR=#red]I didn't see anything about bleach being found on Dassey's clothes. But even if there was, he wasn't a suspect until 5 months after Avery was arrested. Isn't it possible that his clothes could have gotten bleached at some point during that time? Also, I distincly remember the defense arguing that Avery's floor hadn't been bleached because his DNA was found on it and hers wasn't. [/COLOR]​

- vehicle found on his property. ( want to point out something the doc says. Doc does a good job questioning why Acery didn't crush the car. What it doesn't mention is when you crush a car you don't drive in, hit a button, Then walk away and wiping your hands off. You must strip it, drain it, and prepare it for the crusher. This takes time, and people would notice sa working on this vehicle in the company garage )

[COLOR=#red] Avery also had his own garage where he could have stripped the car down and nobody would have noticed. It seems to me that he had plenty of time to strip the car and crush it if he really wanted to. [/COLOR]​

- her bones were found in his burn pit, one he admits using night of her murder. ( some bones are scattered, but ALL were on Avery property.

[COLOR=#red] Why move some bones, but not others? If he's smart enough to realize that it could incriminate him, then you have to think that he would have been more careful then that. [/COLOR]​

- ( my opinion) after watching full videos of Dassey confession, I think he was involved. Seemed like he first tried to mini,keep his involvement, and then kept giving in until he admitted how involved he really was. I think there are parts where he does not stick to yes or no, he goes into great detail on his own. Also, when I watched the doc and heard the prosecution say "he did it because he wanted to feel what sex was like". I was angry, like how could they just say he did it because of that. Then I saw video and Brendan says this is why he did it. His own words.

[COLOR=#red]See my explanation about learning disabilities and intellectual capacity. [/COLOR]​

@mac2013 in red is my rebuttal to some of your points. I know I'm not going to convince you, but I thought I'd at least offer some explanation/alternate theory.

You also mentioned on another page that Avery and Dassey could have burned the sheets, but that still doesn't explain why her blood was never found on the bed? If her throat was in fact cut then there would have been everywhere and likely would have stained the bed through the sheets.

Also, it's hard to imagine that someone in Halbach's position didn't sweat out of fear and yet no sweat or other forms of DNA was found in his room. People question the lack of blood because of the manner in which the police say he killed her.

More importantly, if he did stab her or cut her throat, then why take her to the garage at all? She would have bled out or succumbed to the stabbing eventually. It just doesn't make sense that he would take her to another part of his property to shoot her in the head when that likely wasn't needed.

The police framing him isn't that ridiculous either when you consider that they did it once before and that they were facing a $30 million lawsuit. That would have been incentive enough to frame him. That scumbag officer that said they easily could have killed Avery instead of framing him is full of it. Killing him would have been much more suspicious than framing him.

Personally, I think that someone else killed her and the police again ignored those leads and planted evidence to make sure that Avery got convicted.

Stepped back in this post. Nice layout and sensible responses anleu, but again I someone on the opposition saying after seeing all the evidence... But posts absolutely nothing that overrides any of the blatant corruption surrounding this trial. Especially when they say things like They think Brendan had nothing to do with this, and it's a shame that he was used like that, but introduce his testimony in trying to prove Steven's guilt. You bypass the 90% of reasons out there to not prosecute because of lack of reasonable doubt, and then poorly try to argue that 10%. The only evidence we've seen so far is that you're being contradictory for the sake of being contradictory, congrats, you're against the grain, have a cookie. The reason you're having a tough time on any board is lack of a reasonable argument. And news flash, we're all privy to the same sources, most have read before this thread even started.

 

[solewoman]

So sad and disheartening to hear Brendan call himself stupid. Clearly his mom was uneducated but she knew her son didn't do that mess. All the videos they were show us why wasn't that used in court? Where mark and tom were coaching this kid. Brendan's lawyer was sooo creepy always smiling even when he lost. Dude was in on it. I think the judge as well. Obvious things that should've been thrown out were not.

 

[cashbanks]

I missed the first two episodes and I'm watching them now this **** was an obvious frame job to avoid cashing dude out and looking like jackasses publicly

 

[marcielago]

You guys are just grasping at straws now to make mac2008 look bad . What's funny is you guys remind me of the jurors in Steven's trial. You get presented all of this information and are told to form your own opinion. Don't simply go on what the doc has shown (just like the jurors were told to take note of the inconsistencies in the physical evidence and not to base their opinions simply on how the media painted Steven), but your minds are already made up. Just like their's was.

Mac and I don't exactly share the same views, as I'm not completely sure Steve did it, but after reading some of the links he's posted I can't say for certain that he didn't. No one is saying the cops and the judge in that county weren't a joke; because they were, but that shouldn't be enough to sway you from reading through the information with an open mind and forming your own opinion. I was they same way as a lot of you. When doubts of Steve and Brendan's innocence began to rise in my head it would upset me because I was so convinced they were innocent.

But then I asked myself this, and I'll ask you guys the same question: Are you willing to let this documentary sway you and manipulate your emotions to the point where you'll ignore anything that may contradict it? We all had our emotions and our feels torn apart by this story and I don't know about you guys, but if I invest myself into something that emotionally it better be telling me the whole truth. I'm not trying get played. It's like if people were coming to you and telling you that your girl was cheating. Would you just take one side over the other or would you do your research? Even if the people telling you were known to be shady people, you would just take her word for it? I don't know. Not knowing everything just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not sure why it does with you guys though.