MAKING A MURDERER | Season 2 on October 19th!

[Cashflow]

At a certain point we will all have to agree to disagree. If you go back to the earlier pages of this thread, it was discussed whether or not the documentary provided a 1 sided view or not. But what overrides this lies in the actual facts of what happened in the investigation of this case:

Brendan confession won't be touched on again because false confessions is real problem in this country. Let alone a false confession from a child who is clearly mentally challenged.

Fact: The key was not found for 7 days of searching by Calumet PD. Then it miraculously popped up on the 8th day.

Fact: No actual bullet outside of the shell casings was found until FOUR months after the fact. It's not like these places were not searched thoroughly before they were found. They were not there

Fact. Manitokov Country immediately held a press conference removing them lselves from the search and investigation. In both instances the key pieces of evidence were found by Detectives of the County.

Fact: The livense plates of the missing Rav 4 was called in by a Detective days before it was found.

Fact: Brendan never on his provided any detail without Fassbender and the other guy feeding him what occurred. Even the whole Steve popped the trunk to unhook the battery was feed to him by Fassbender.

Fact: Avery's fingerprints are not found in any part of the car but somehow his blood does. So by this revelation we are to believe he whips down the entire car with bleach supposedly except near the ignition. So lets say he did handle the car and got his blood inside it, how did he close the door of the car?

And the major thing is where was her DNA in his garage and our beedroom. I'm sure restraints will be mentioned again but his WOODEN bed posts had no structural damage to them nor was Theresa's DNa found on the ones that were said the be purchased around that time.

If Calumet County were the ones to have found the key pieces of evidence then I'd say this was a near slam dunk case and Avery was likely guilty. But him calling Auto Trader to request her can't be the piece of evidence to say "oh yeah he is guilty."

These are the issues the majority have with the case and why they are skeptical of his guilt. It's not how things were presented in the documentary but what was presented as they occured. The film makers didn't make the County remove themselves from the investigation to then turn up in every major point of it. The film makers didn't tamper with the box holding the blood. The film makers didn't have the lab confirm that they don't poke holes at the top of the vile. You can't blame them for the facts of the case that Katz continuously paraded to the media.

If Lenk and Colburn stayed behind their desks, this documentary and case looks completely different. There's a very good chance there isn't even a 10 part mini series about this to be told because things would not have just popped up as they did.

 

[wavycrocket]

At a certain point we will all have to agree to disagree. If you go back to the earlier pages of this thread, it was discussed whether or not the documentary provided a 1 sided view or not. But what overrides this lies in the actual facts of what happened in the investigation of this case:

Brendan confession won't be touched on again because false confessions is real problem in this country. Let alone a false confession from a child who is clearly mentally challenged.

Fact: The key was not found for 7 days of searching by Calumet PD. Then it miraculously popped up on the 8th day.

Fact: No actual bullet outside of the shell casings was found until FOUR months after the fact. It's not like these places were not searched thoroughly before they were found. They were not there

Fact. Manitokov Country immediately held a press conference removing them lselves from the search and investigation. In both instances the key pieces of evidence were found by Detectives of the County.

Fact: The livense plates of the missing Rav 4 was called in by a Detective days before it was found.

Fact: Brendan never on his provided any detail without Fassbender and the other guy feeding him what occurred. Even the whole Steve popped the trunk to unhook the battery was feed to him by Fassbender.

Fact: Avery's fingerprints are not found in any part of the car but somehow his blood does. So by this revelation we are to believe he whips down the entire car with bleach supposedly except near the ignition. So lets say he did handle the car and got his blood inside it, how did he close the door of the car?

And the major thing is where was her DNA in his garage and our beedroom. I'm sure restraints will be mentioned again but his WOODEN bed posts had no structural damage to them nor was Theresa's DNa found on the ones that were said the be purchased around that time.

If Calumet County were the ones to have found the key pieces of evidence then I'd say this was a near slam dunk case and Avery was likely guilty. But him calling Auto Trader to request her can't be the piece of evidence to say "oh yeah he is guilty."

These are the issues the majority have with the case and why they are skeptical of his guilt. It's not how things were presented in the documentary but what was presented as they occured. The film makers didn't make the County remove themselves from the investigation to then turn up in every major point of it. The film makers didn't tamper with the box holding the blood. The film makers didn't have the lab confirm that they don't poke holes at the top of the vile. You can't blame them for the facts of the case that Katz continuously paraded to the media.

If Lenk and Colburn stayed behind their desks, this documentary and case looks completely different. There's a very good chance there isn't even a 10 part mini series about this to be told because things would not have just popped up as they did.

Too much sense.

Repped.

 

[moonman818]

Yup^^^

Whether you believe he did it or not... He shouldn't be in jail because there were far too many inconsistencies and bogus evidence to get a 1st degree murder conviction IMO... The jury already had their minds made up.


As the relative of someone who has been in jail since he was 18 years old (1997) for a murder he absolutely did not commit... If there's one positive you can take from this documentary, it's that people get to see how ****** up our justice system is.

 

[Sir San Diego]

At a certain point we will all have to agree to disagree. If you go back to the earlier pages of this thread, it was discussed whether or not the documentary provided a 1 sided view or not. But what overrides this lies in the actual facts of what happened in the investigation of this case:

Brendan confession won't be touched on again because false confessions is real problem in this country. Let alone a false confession from a child who is clearly mentally challenged.

Fact: The key was not found for 7 days of searching by Calumet PD. Then it miraculously popped up on the 8th day.

Fact: No actual bullet outside of the shell casings was found until FOUR months after the fact. It's not like these places were not searched thoroughly before they were found. They were not there

Fact. Manitokov Country immediately held a press conference removing them lselves from the search and investigation. In both instances the key pieces of evidence were found by Detectives of the County.

Fact: The livense plates of the missing Rav 4 was called in by a Detective days before it was found.

Fact: Brendan never on his provided any detail without Fassbender and the other guy feeding him what occurred. Even the whole Steve popped the trunk to unhook the battery was feed to him by Fassbender.

Fact: Avery's fingerprints are not found in any part of the car but somehow his blood does. So by this revelation we are to believe he whips down the entire car with bleach supposedly except near the ignition. So lets say he did handle the car and got his blood inside it, how did he close the door of the car?

And the major thing is where was her DNA in his garage and our beedroom. I'm sure restraints will be mentioned again but his WOODEN bed posts had no structural damage to them nor was Theresa's DNa found on the ones that were said the be purchased around that time.

If Calumet County were the ones to have found the key pieces of evidence then I'd say this was a near slam dunk case and Avery was likely guilty. But him calling Auto Trader to request her can't be the piece of evidence to say "oh yeah he is guilty."

These are the issues the majority have with the case and why they are skeptical of his guilt. It's not how things were presented in the documentary but what was presented as they occured. The film makers didn't make the County remove themselves from the investigation to then turn up in every major point of it. The film makers didn't tamper with the box holding the blood. The film makers didn't have the lab confirm that they don't poke holes at the top of the vile. You can't blame them for the facts of the case that Katz continuously paraded to the media.

If Lenk and Colburn stayed behind their desks, this documentary and case looks completely different. There's a very good chance there isn't even a 10 part mini series about this to be told because things would not have just popped up as they did.

Outta reps, but I'll be back to rep this post.

 

[Benny Hinn]

Well put Cashflow

The "evidence" Mac keeps regurgitating is so weak. Literally no physical evidence linking SA to the murder.

It's basically SA in towel. Which was an off hand comment from a receptionist that never made it to trial. A couple of *67 calls. And bleach jeans that were only found on Brendan. Which has been proven doesn't actually clean up blood.

Like. Cmon b. Give it up. This troll job has gone long enough.

 

[downyboy]

Whether or not Avery did it is definitely up for debate. What's not up for debate is neither of these guys received a fair trial, and the utter lack of education these people received. It amazes me to see people with such little intellectual capacity in the US, quite sad to be honest.

 

[PatRiley]

Whether or not Avery did it is definitely up for debate. What's not up for debate is neither of these guys received a fair trial, and the utter lack of education these people received. It amazes me to see people with such little intellectual capacity in the US, quite sad to be honest.

Yep and whether you are a criminal or not should not allow you to be taken advantage of in a court of "law"

 

[mac2008]

Ok. I'm done with the thread. You guys are hilarious. Any physical evidence vs Avery. It's planted. Can't use his own words against him cause he's dumb. Hahaha.

I get it. There is nothing you will accept. I'll let y'all play with your tin foil hats.

 

[PatRiley]

That's fine, thanks for your contribution. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.

 

[Mark Antony]

You guys are just grasping at straws now to make mac2008 look bad . What's funny is you guys remind me of the jurors in Steven's trial. You get presented all of this information and are told to form your own opinion. Don't simply go on what the doc has shown (just like the jurors were told to take note of the inconsistencies in the physical evidence and not to base their opinions simply on how the media painted Steven), but your minds are already made up. Just like their's was.

Mac and I don't exactly share the same views, as I'm not completely sure Steve did it, but after reading some of the links he's posted I can't say for certain that he didn't. No one is saying the cops and the judge in that county weren't a joke; because they were, but that shouldn't be enough to sway you from reading through the information with an open mind and forming your own opinion. I was they same way as a lot of you. When doubts of Steve and Brendan's innocence began to rise in my head it would upset me because I was so convinced they were innocent.

But then I asked myself this, and I'll ask you guys the same question: Are you willing to let this documentary sway you and manipulate your emotions to the point where you'll ignore anything that may contradict it? We all had our emotions and our feels torn apart by this story and I don't know about you guys, but if I invest myself into something that emotionally it better be telling me the whole truth. I'm not trying get played. It's like if people were coming to you and telling you that your girl was cheating. Would you just take one side over the other or would you do your research? Even if the people telling you were known to be shady people, you would just take her word for it? I don't know. Not knowing everything just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not sure why it does with you guys though.

Again, just like him, you present absolutely nothing of substance but "don't just believe what the documentary says" even though it's been stated many times that people have done extra research and still come to the conclusion it wasn't a fair trial. Stop, think, present something we can use or accept that you're just being contradictory and are (ironically) easily swayed by any new information despite the facts we already know. See below:

At a certain point we will all have to agree to disagree. If you go back to the earlier pages of this thread, it was discussed whether or not the documentary provided a 1 sided view or not. But what overrides this lies in the actual facts of what happened in the investigation of this case:

Brendan confession won't be touched on again because false confessions is real problem in this country. Let alone a false confession from a child who is clearly mentally challenged.

Fact: The key was not found for 7 days of searching by Calumet PD. Then it miraculously popped up on the 8th day.

Fact: No actual bullet outside of the shell casings was found until FOUR months after the fact. It's not like these places were not searched thoroughly before they were found. They were not there

Fact. Manitokov Country immediately held a press conference removing them lselves from the search and investigation. In both instances the key pieces of evidence were found by Detectives of the County.

Fact: The livense plates of the missing Rav 4 was called in by a Detective days before it was found.

Fact: Brendan never on his provided any detail without Fassbender and the other guy feeding him what occurred. Even the whole Steve popped the trunk to unhook the battery was feed to him by Fassbender.

Fact: Avery's fingerprints are not found in any part of the car but somehow his blood does. So by this revelation we are to believe he whips down the entire car with bleach supposedly except near the ignition. So lets say he did handle the car and got his blood inside it, how did he close the door of the car?

And the major thing is where was her DNA in his garage and our beedroom. I'm sure restraints will be mentioned again but his WOODEN bed posts had no structural damage to them nor was Theresa's DNa found on the ones that were said the be purchased around that time.

If Calumet County were the ones to have found the key pieces of evidence then I'd say this was a near slam dunk case and Avery was likely guilty. But him calling Auto Trader to request her can't be the piece of evidence to say "oh yeah he is guilty."

These are the issues the majority have with the case and why they are skeptical of his guilt. It's not how things were presented in the documentary but what was presented as they occured. The film makers didn't make the County remove themselves from the investigation to then turn up in every major point of it. The film makers didn't tamper with the box holding the blood. The film makers didn't have the lab confirm that they don't poke holes at the top of the vile. You can't blame them for the facts of the case that Katz continuously paraded to the media.

If Lenk and Colburn stayed behind their desks, this documentary and case looks completely different. There's a very good chance there isn't even a 10 part mini series about this to be told because things would not have just popped up as they did.

What have you read that overrides any of this, and why is it so difficult for you to share? Stop giving yourselves this self appointed level of higher intelligence and dismissing 96% as not being open, biased, mind already made up or easily swayed by the doc, its statistically impossible and insulting. All you have to do is make sense, but the opposition continues to struggle.

 

[friscostylez]

wait i thought mac2008 said specifically that he believes the trial was unfair but based on the research he has done he thinks SA did it. i haven't looked at any of the links he provided but im not sure why you guys ask for people to state why they did SA is guilty and when someone provides his point, you guys went in on him lol. i think he did a good job and isn't as crazy as some of you guys think he is.

 

[deleted]

Dude's snotty attitude just invites hostility

 

[marcielago]

You guys are just grasping at straws now to make mac2008 look bad . What's funny is you guys remind me of the jurors in Steven's trial. You get presented all of this information and are told to form your own opinion. Don't simply go on what the doc has shown (just like the jurors were told to take note of the inconsistencies in the physical evidence and not to base their opinions simply on how the media painted Steven), but your minds are already made up. Just like their's was.

Mac and I don't exactly share the same views, as I'm not completely sure Steve did it, but after reading some of the links he's posted I can't say for certain that he didn't. No one is saying the cops and the judge in that county weren't a joke; because they were, but that shouldn't be enough to sway you from reading through the information with an open mind and forming your own opinion. I was they same way as a lot of you. When doubts of Steve and Brendan's innocence began to rise in my head it would upset me because I was so convinced they were innocent.

But then I asked myself this, and I'll ask you guys the same question: Are you willing to let this documentary sway you and manipulate your emotions to the point where you'll ignore anything that may contradict it? We all had our emotions and our feels torn apart by this story and I don't know about you guys, but if I invest myself into something that emotionally it better be telling me the whole truth. I'm not trying get played. It's like if people were coming to you and telling you that your girl was cheating. Would you just take one side over the other or would you do your research? Even if the people telling you were known to be shady people, you would just take her word for it? I don't know. Not knowing everything just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not sure why it does with you guys though.

Again, just like him, you present absolutely nothing of substance but "don't just believe what the documentary says" even though it's been stated many times that people have done extra research and still come to the conclusion it wasn't a fair trial. Stop, think, present something we can use or accept that you're just being contradictory and are (ironically) easily swayed by any new information despite the facts we already know. See below:

At a certain point we will all have to agree to disagree. If you go back to the earlier pages of this thread, it was discussed whether or not the documentary provided a 1 sided view or not. But what overrides this lies in the actual facts of what happened in the investigation of this case:

Brendan confession won't be touched on again because false confessions is real problem in this country. Let alone a false confession from a child who is clearly mentally challenged.

Fact: The key was not found for 7 days of searching by Calumet PD. Then it miraculously popped up on the 8th day.

Fact: No actual bullet outside of the shell casings was found until FOUR months after the fact. It's not like these places were not searched thoroughly before they were found. They were not there

Fact. Manitokov Country immediately held a press conference removing them lselves from the search and investigation. In both instances the key pieces of evidence were found by Detectives of the County.

Fact: The livense plates of the missing Rav 4 was called in by a Detective days before it was found.

Fact: Brendan never on his provided any detail without Fassbender and the other guy feeding him what occurred. Even the whole Steve popped the trunk to unhook the battery was feed to him by Fassbender.

Fact: Avery's fingerprints are not found in any part of the car but somehow his blood does. So by this revelation we are to believe he whips down the entire car with bleach supposedly except near the ignition. So lets say he did handle the car and got his blood inside it, how did he close the door of the car?

And the major thing is where was her DNA in his garage and our beedroom. I'm sure restraints will be mentioned again but his WOODEN bed posts had no structural damage to them nor was Theresa's DNa found on the ones that were said the be purchased around that time.

If Calumet County were the ones to have found the key pieces of evidence then I'd say this was a near slam dunk case and Avery was likely guilty. But him calling Auto Trader to request her can't be the piece of evidence to say "oh yeah he is guilty."

These are the issues the majority have with the case and why they are skeptical of his guilt. It's not how things were presented in the documentary but what was presented as they occured. The film makers didn't make the County remove themselves from the investigation to then turn up in every major point of it. The film makers didn't tamper with the box holding the blood. The film makers didn't have the lab confirm that they don't poke holes at the top of the vile. You can't blame them for the facts of the case that Katz continuously paraded to the media.

If Lenk and Colburn stayed behind their desks, this documentary and case looks completely different. There's a very good chance there isn't even a 10 part mini series about this to be told because things would not have just popped up as they did.

What have you read that overrides any of this, and why is it so difficult for you to share? Stop giving yourselves this self appointed level of higher intelligence and dismissing 96% as not being open, biased, mind already made up or easily swayed by the doc, its statistically impossible and insulting. All you have to do is make sense, but the opposition continues to struggle.

I don't have to present anything to you bro. The info is in the thread for anyone that's interested. I've even stated I haven't read through all of it. I'm not even being contradictory. I've stated that me and Mac don't have the same exact views. He believes Steve is 100% guilty, I'm not so sure. I'm on the fence on the matter. If anything I'm the least swayed in the entire thread since it seems almost everyone has their mind made up one way or the other. I only came to his defense because you guys were bashing him for giving his opinion (with sources to back it) when you literally asked for it in the beginning of the thread.

How does me saying "don't just believe the documentary" not have any substance? Anytime something is presented to you, especially as propaganda (which this doc was. I don't think that can be argued), you should always do your own research. Don't just be fed someone else's view on it. I would say that about ANYTHING. That doesn't mean I'm trying to sway you into believing he's guilty. A stance that I don't even take myself.

wait i thought mac2008 said specifically that he believes the trial was unfair but based on the research he has done he thinks SA did it. i haven't looked at any of the links he provided but im not sure why you guys ask for people to state why they did SA is guilty and when someone provides his point, you guys went in on him lol. i think he did a good job and isn't as crazy as some of you guys think he is.

I LITERALLY brought up this point earlier. Repped

 

[mac2008]

Yeah frisco that's exactly what I have said.
People are just so into this story about corruption and believing Someone got treated unfairly they aren't willing to accept that he likely did it. Weather he was treated fair or not. Btw Avery had two of the best lawyers in the state. He had a way better shot In a trial than 90% of other ppl accused when it comes representation. But either way. I get it, I even understand. I just didn't expect to be called dense especially when I backed up everything I said. But that's ok. I get what people are feeling. As time goes by more and more will hit the mainstream about everything in the case. I just wanted to share what all I had found. There are plenty of people that appreciated it. Just a few who had issues. But I'm over it. I think everyone is aware of all the info now, weather they ignore it or not is on them.

Repped

 

[parada45]

Case is so crazy man

The whole time I was watching I kept doubting the police would set him up

Then when his blood sample was tampered with

The key is so suspect too

I can see why some people think he did do it tho

For the cops to frame him requires a ton of work and luck

Gut feeling he is innocent is my opinion tho

 

[SORIANOTRON]

I just want to give brandon a hug man.

 

[49ersaaron8]

Man I was dead when Brendan said "I guessed" to his mom in the phone call.

 

[gil23]

Yeah frisco that's exactly what I have said.
People are just so into this story about corruption and believing Someone got treated unfairly they aren't willing to accept that he likely did it. Weather he was treated fair or not. Btw Avery had two of the best lawyers in the state. He had a way better shot In a trial than 90% of other ppl accused when it comes representation. But either way. I get it, I even understand. I just didn't expect to be called dense especially when I backed up everything I said. But that's ok. I get what people are feeling. As time goes by more and more will hit the mainstream about everything in the case. I just wanted to share what all I had found. There are plenty of people that appreciated it. Just a few who had issues. But I'm over it. I think everyone is aware of all the info now, weather they ignore it or not is on them.

Repped

It didnt matter how good the lawyers were, some jurors had their mind already made up because of how the police portrayed Steve and Brendan

Cmon son ... You gotta see the point you are trying to make from every angle.

 

[mac2008]

It didnt matter how good the lawyers were, some jurors had their mind already made up because of how the police portrayed Steve and Brendan

Cmon son ... You gotta see the point you are trying to make from every angle.

The irony.
Ok. I didn't know the jurors already had mind made up. Good input.
Guys just sit back and consider that you thinking ppl were biased because his prior false conviction is really you just being biased and not thinking he did it cause he was wrongfully convicted. I get it. It's a good storyline. If you wanna say you don't see how he was convicted and the police seemed shady. Sure. But if you are gonna say he for sure didn't do it ... Cmon. Especially trying to discredit my info I lay out with "jurors had their mind made up". Or " all this DNA was clearly planted ".

 

[gil23]

Still not convinced that he did it, he might have done it idk.


The police messed up and that man shouldn't be in jail right now....

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Watching episode 7

Brendan been EATING in there.

His pre-trial lawyer was a damn goof.

 

[robotea]

I'm a big fan of dateline, but this is like dateline on roids. I'm surprised they got all this footage released.

Brendon's first lawyer was just a clown.

 

[Benny Hinn]

Man I was dead when Brendan said "I guessed" to his mom in the phone call.

Kid guessed his way to life in prison

 

[moonman818]

Watching episode 7

Brendan been EATING in there.

His pre-trial lawyer was a damn goof.

That prison food got Brendan lookin like Kirby

 

[quise2024]

I quoted a lot and also have a lot to say finally finishing this. So anyone interested can just open the spoiler, i wont flood the page/thread with a lengthy post where you have to scroll for day.

Alright now with that said before I dive in to my responses on posts I would like to ... after reading all 25 pages, everyone agrees that he DID NOT receive a fair trial, everyone also agrees to the shady-ness of the police and evidence that were coincidental. Obviously everyone is not on the same for guilt or innocence. I myself have not done any thorough digging on proving either, BUT I am not 100% on guilty or innocent because i do not know all the unknowns in which Avery and Halbach would know. I was actually happy to see a few of you speak up and say they thought Avery was guilty and initially commended mac2008 . But after seeing the obviously high investment you have to proving SA guilty and need to reply to every single person who comments that SA is innocent or say someting contrary to your posts is just annoying af man, and was on the verge of just blocking your posts. You legit have been prob damn near 10 posts every page for at least 15 of the 25. But that wouldnt stop the back n forth between everyone else. Cool you provided links to that show another side to the story and/or evidence left out the documentary, im happy about that cuz at some point i might go read on it. But at some point man you should have just let it go ...

Spoiler

Where did I say I would've convicted him. I have said the exact opposite. Are you reading or just trying to hold on to the narrative of the doc.

I do not think anyone else did it. If I had to pick who I think did it. It's Steve. And it's pretty clear to me.

I think you guys are ignoring common sense because this doc showed possible sketchy police. And want to believe the people with power are corrupt. That could be true, too. But c'mon, Steve did it.

What I keep gathering from you is that Steve did it, he's guilty, etc ... But you imply above that you have never said you would have convicted him. Why not? You have provided links to evidence that proves he was the person to commit the crime no? So with that evidence is it not enough to convict him

did Steven or Brendan ever have an alibi?

I dont think anything other than what they provided

This conversation with his mother.

"How did you come up with that!?!?!"

"Guessing, that's what I do on my homework"


I tried not to laugh but man.

The Fargo-ish accents and dialogue kill me.

Mom: Well what did he say to her yet?
Brendan: I don't know
Mom: Yeah
Brendan: Yeah
Mom: Yep

bruh .. ok so ive heard a cpl people from Minnesota and Wisconsin talk, and its only when ive asked them to let me hear the "accent" but watching his documentary had me dying. So it reminds of the way its portrayed Irish people talk, are there Irish roots in Wisconsin, Minnesota area.

"You have a collect call from xx Correctional Facility

Barb: Hello
Brendan: Yeah?
Barb: Yeah.

No. I agree with the idea it shouldn't have been allowed in court though. The defense had some points there. But in the court of common sense the DNA was there. It was found. You would have to believe she accidentally got some of th DNA on it. Unless you think the frame job isn't just two people I guess. I don't have any doubt th DNA was on it. Either did the court or jury, but I can understand being up in arms about it being allowed.

Everyone has right to come to own opinions. I just find it funny ppl get so upset when people think Steve did it and say "your talking about a mans life ". Then they offer other suspects with even less evidence lol. Not saying you are one of those people though ... With that being said. Many ppl in that family were concicted of sexual crimes and Steve was accused of multiple ones in children, which is why the town hated the family (doc doesn't really explain that). So I have hard time feeling for them. (Other than the wrongful conviction of firs rape. )

Would that surprise you if Steve had been accused by the kids of that family of sexual abuse. Because he was. Doesn't matter if he did it for this point. He was accused and his family knew that. Wouldn't that make you happy someone is locked up? A little ? If your children said he touched them sexually ?

youre really fixed on this family related sex crime, you mention it a lot ..

accusations are accusations though...was he charged with a crime...? his cousin said he ran out to the street to masturbate while she drove past...that is an accusation as well...obviously the averys were disliked for whatever reason...but that doesn't mean he did everything he was accused of...

on a another note though...i thought it was disgusting how the judge kept saying at the sentencing that steve was becoming more dangerous...first a sexual assualt then murder...but dude didn't even commit the sexual assault...the judge was already convinced that he did it...

is it normal to face the same judge that sentenced you to hear out your appeal...? that doesn't seem fair to me at all..

right, i didnt get this. The fact that he was exonerated throws out his "more dangerous" talk. Yeah dude had a few things he served for but cmon.

The saddest part with the documentary is

that some people spent all weekend watching this because they have no life...

bruh wth you talking bout. How does one deciding to spend a weekend home away from people to maybe idk get a break or something equate to no life.

You win Mac.

He did it or someone in his family did. The family's history is way too shady for this to done by anybody else.

thinking like that is partially what put him the situation that he is in now. Thats what the entire community thinks of that family so if something happened I wouldnt be surprised if the first thing most people did was assume it was someone from the Avery family

This documentary gives off the feeling that the midwest is some kind of Napoleon Dynamite time warp.  All these people dressing like it's the early 90s with Jnco Jeans and all that garbage.

jnco's were in during the time this was all taking place ... as for those big *** glasses that some of them were wearing still in the 2000s had to go but yeah. Also the portrayal of that area of Mantiwoc Country seemed to be low class, even people they interviewed outside of Avery Rd didnt seem the brightest. And I really hate to sit here and say that because I do not know for sure but just going off of what was shared in the doc

I don't think in terms of "beyond a reasonable doubt". I'm not a court room. But I can give you reasons why I think he did it. I have posted sources or most of these, or have seen them elsewhere. Also, some things from the doc. You don't have to take my word that they are "facts", but please try to look something up before you try to discredit it.

Spoiler

- Avery was last person to see her Alive(he admits this, not disputed.) her cell phone activity stops during the time she was at Avery's. ( this alone is HUGE) can throw in th was asked specifically to come take pics. The appointment was made in Barbs name. I believe it was her van, though no one disputes that Avery was always the one who was gonna interact with th. She also commented on being at his property before and he showed up in towel only. She said it was gross.
- Avery's phone called th the day of the murder. The first two calls were *67', third one was made at 430, witnesses and Avery say she was already at his property at this time. This call was NOT blocked with *67.
- th purse and contents were found in barrel 20 ft from Avery's door.Bobby Dassey says he saw Avery put bag in barrel before he left hunting. Brendan also says he saw her purse and camera in this barrel.
- Avery purchased sex restraints 3 weeks before the murder. Brendan's confession seems to show this type of thing was used.
- Avery was already about to be charged with sexual Abuse from a family member. Also Brendan talks to his mom about Avery's inappropriate sexual behavior. She seemed to know already. Also can throw in the lighting a cat on fire incident. Shows Avery has a lack of empathy at the very least.
- His DNA was in car. By ignition and he also had a cut on his right hand. Also, none blood DNA found on hood latch of car. EDTA was found in his vial of blood but not found in car sample. These tests are not common but in OJ case, same type of test was done and EDTA was detected. So it is possible to detect. If you read defense expert trial transcripts, she didn't really say anything other than she's unfamiliar with the procedure.
- bullet found in his garage with th DNA matched the gun that was kept in his room. (Think doc only mentions it matches type. It matched specifically)
- Bobby Dassey returns home the night of the murder with bleach on his pants. His mom confirmed and so did testing. He told his mom he was helping Avery clean his garage. Now he says this, to his mom, night of the murder. Before his confession. During confession he admits he was cleaning blood with bleach, gas and paint thinner. ( I can't find where I say this next part admittedly, but think it was in Dassey trial transcripts.) bleach was detected on sa floor.
- vehicle found on his property. ( want to point out something the doc says. Doc does a good job questioning why Acery didn't crush the car. What it doesn't mention is when you crush a car you don't drive in, hit a button, Then walk away and wiping your hands off. You must strip it, drain it, and prepare it for the crusher. This takes time, and people would notice sa working on this vehicle in the company garage )
- her bones were found in his burn pit, one he admits using night of her murder. ( some bones are scattered, but ALL were on Avery property.
- ( my opinion) after watching full videos of Dassey confession, I think he was involved. Seemed like he first tried to mini,keep his involvement, and then kept giving in until he admitted how involved he really was. I think there are parts where he does not stick to yes or no, he goes into great detail on his own. Also, when I watched the doc and heard the prosecution say "he did it because he wanted to feel what sex was like". I was angry, like how could they just say he did it because of that. Then I saw video and Brendan says this is why he did it. His own words.

That's all I can think of on top of my head. I'm sure people can point to theories or reasons they don't think one is correct individually. However, I think anyone who tries to discredit all of it would look completely ridiculous. I'm opem to hear new ideas from people though! Just don't respond with " couldn't have .." Or something like that. Yes anything is possible but I believe most of the things I posted are pretty hardened pieces of evidence.

a lot of good points here and like I said before I'm glad you shared those things that werent covered in the doc. But most of this does not PROVE that he killed her does it?

Not knowing everything just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not sure why it does with you guys though.

doesnt with me either, i really was hoping that there was at least something in the trial that gave proof he did it

Whether or not Avery did it is definitely up for debate. What's not up for debate is neither of these guys received a fair trial, and the utter lack of education these people received. It amazes me to see people with such little intellectual capacity in the US, quite sad to be honest.

i agree with everything you just said. I couldnt do anything but listening to how slow Brendan was and that neither him nor him mom knew what inconsistent meant. I figured he was screwed anyway but after neither knew that i was like yeah you're done.

Spoiler: my thoughts

I was surprised that the defense went out of their way to get the trial to be held in Calumet County, why did they not request a jury from anywhere BUT Mantiwoc County. They knew the cards were already stacked with the police and court, well of course the community does not like them from the picture that is painted of the Avery family, Steve alone. Especially after he was convicted before, regardless if he was exonerated, that left a sour taste in all the people of the town's mouth. There is no way in hell that SA gets a fair trial in that county from a jury of his peers when before the trail they hold a press conference painting this "horrific" jigsaw-like murder.

I know we dont see everything just from the doc but i wish the defense would have went harder when they found the holes in the stories and things that didnt add up. Its like they hit on it and then let it go and never really touched on it again. They should have hit it hard in the closing arguments. I mean lets be honest though it wouldnt have mattered i dont think.

I thought confessions from minors were not admissible when the lawyer wasnt present or consent from the parent. And also thought Brendans confession would be crap when he was obviously not credible with the changing stories. I find it hard to believe that this inept virgin with the intellectual ability of a kid, said to himself welp here's my 1 and only chance as knowing what sex is like I better take the opportunity. The same kid who CRIED because he was dumped by his first ever girlfriend and went on to lose weight (which should have been never even been brought up cuz it was relevant). SA wasnt a genius but he was no dummy, he knows how dumb his nephew is why on God's green earth would he invite Brendan over to participate if he did have TH tied up to the bed. Makes no sense that he would want to include


before you come at me with "wheres the evidence" my answer is IDK but I personally feel like the brother and ex-bf know something more than what they tell. For one the ex .. EX ... was allowed to search the Avery property and when the news showed up to interview them about when they found something i dont remember what they both were stumbling all over their words in who what when n where. They just happened to guess her password? Really .. cmon why would they even be checking the voicemail to begin with. Also there's always mention of how much she loved her sisters, her brother said it, the ex said it, Theresa herself said it. She never mentioned her brother EVER. The only time he (the brother) was ever sad was at the sentencing and im sure it was fake. Along with them not being quesitoned enough, Bobby and the other guy hunting were not questioned enough.

Speaking of fake, that investigator crying over the blue ribbon .. that same blue ribbon that was in the pic on the table when he was telling Brendan what to draw. He had no reaction then.

Coulbourn isnt very bright, thats all Im gonna say about him.

I wouldnt hit a woman, but that lab tech lady with the white hair, that dumb fckn smirk she had every time she got questioned, bruh i wanted someone to slap that ish off her face