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::MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES SEASON THREAD: Grizzlies Waiting Before Offering Z-Bo Extension::
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by bhzmafia14,
- Start date
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Possible draft picks snubbing Grizzlies
The Grizzlies will hold their fifth pre-draft workout today with the caveat that has accompanied the previous sessions.
The lineup is subject to change.
An ankle injury will prevent Texas' Avery Bradley from participating as scheduled in a FedExForum workout designed to look at guards the Griz will consider with first-round selections at 25 and 28.
But there is a bigger problem with the Grizzlies' evaluation for candidates projected to be on the board at their 12th pick.
Team officials are routinely dealing with refusals to visit and workout cancellations by prospects who have expressed a desire not to play for the Grizzlies, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation.
Fresno State small forward Paul George was the latest player to pull out. He canceled his appearance last Sunday, citing a groin injury. But there were indications that George doesn't see Memphis as a place where he can receive significant playing time.
The most notable snub came from Butler forward Gordon Hayward.
Hayward is emphatic in his desire not to play for Memphis, sources said, adding that his camp indicated as much to the Griz as the reason he skipped last Sunday's workout.
Also, the Griz have been unable to negotiate a visit from Kentucky guard Eric Bledsoe, and Baylor forward Ekpe Udoh recently canceled his workout planned for Wednesday. Even Memphis native Elliot Williams has declined to commit to a meeting with the Griz, and he's projected to be drafted late in the first round.
"Its par for the pre-draft course," general manager Chris Wallace said. "That's why you go out and watch the games during the season. There are times when the agent and the player would prefer to be in one place over another. But if we want them we'll pick them, and we tell them that."
Attempts to reach players' agents for comment were unsuccessful.
This is the second consecutive year that the Grizzlies have been rebuffed by draft prospects around their highest selection. Last year, guards Ricky Rubio, Stephen Curry and Jonny Flynn refused invitations to work out in Memphis when the Grizzlies had the second overall pick.
Rubio went fifth to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who selected Flynn with the sixth pick. The Golden State Warriors selected Curry with the seventh pick.
Memphis chose center Hasheem Thabeet even though he never appeared in a private workout for the club. Thabeet cited an injury each time the Griz requested to put him through drills. There are indications that Griz owner Michael Heisley wouldn't have insisted on picking the Tanzanian had he seen Thabeet's deficiencies up close and personal.
Even so, the Thabeet selection proved that the Griz won't be intimidated by the process.
"It doesn't matter. We like the workouts to see competitiveness, but if they chose not to work out for us then that's OK," said Tony Barone Sr., Griz director of player personnel. "We've seen Gordon Hayward eight to 10 times. We've seen Bledsoe 10 to 12 times. It doesn't bother me at all. It's more of an indication that the agent is trying to position their players. That's their job. I don't have a problem with that either."
Snubs, however, won't affect today's session.
Bradley has a legitimate injury that won't allow him to work out against guards such as Kansas' Sherron Collins and Maryland's Greivis Vasquez. ESPN.com's Chad Ford reported that Bradley suffered a medium left ankle sprain during a workout in Oklahoma City last Sunday. Reportedly, the injury is bad enough for Bradley to discontinue all workouts.
Wake Forest guard Ishmael Smith, who visited the Griz on June 2, will replace Bradley in the workout.
-- Ronald Tillery: 529-2353
Grizzlies' path to draft night
Memphis has the Nos. 12, 25 and 28 picks in the NBA draft. Here's a look at the team's tentative schedule for the final 10-day stretch to draft night:
Today: Workouts in Memphis with players including Kansas guard Sherron Collins and Maryland guard Greivis Vasquez
Wednesday: Workouts in Memphis with players including D-League forward Latavious Williams and Virginia Commonwealth forward Larry Sanders
June 20: Workouts in Memphis expected to include Ole Miss guard Terrico White, a former Craigmont star, plus Kentucky forward Patrick Patterson and West Virginia forward Devin Ebanks
June 24: NBA draft in New York City
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jun/15/players-snubbing-grizzlies/
Terrible.
im not you
Banned
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Mayo plans to try for backup point guard spot
As the Grizzlies prepare to add more players through the NBA draft, there's still an organizational belief that their continued march forward rides mostly on internal improvement.
No one is taking that more seriously than O.J. Mayo.
The third-year shooting guard is looking to earn some time playing point guard next season.
"I'm not scared to say that I'm not the best point guard right now," said Mayo, who is in Memphis and working out. "I'm probably horrible right now mainly because I haven't played with the ball in three years. But I think through repetition I can be good."
Griz coaches and executives spent Tuesday morning watching point guard prospects they might consider with their late first-round picks (25 and 2. Memphis also will select 12th in the June 24 draft.
The franchise is just as eager to see if Mayo can prove to be an option at backing up starter Mike Conley. Evaluation of Mayo will begin July 12 when the Griz begin summer-league play at Las Vegas. Memphis is scheduled to play five games in seven days.
Mayo confirmed that he will play in the Grizzlies' first two games.
"I've been telling some of the guys on the team that I'm not going to be a perfect point guard right away," Mayo said. "But I think I'll get better. I just have to have the opportunity. I'm not trying to step on the heels of Mike Conley. I just want to get better so I can stay on the floor."
Mayo, 6-4, laughed at any notion that he would be offended when asked to play in summer league.
"We want to see if he can change his mindset and see if his skill level makes him capable of playing the point," Griz coach Lionel Hollins said. "I'm not looking at him as the starting point guard or a 30-minute point guard. But the more versatility we have the better our team is so we can keep our main guys on the court longer."
Plus, Mayo was often overpowered by longer, stronger shooting guards last season. Mayo struggled to defend and score against bigger opponents.
Mayo pointed out the Feb. 26 game Memphis lost to the Charlotte Bobcats as a prime example. Stephen Jackson exploded for 32 points mostly opposite Mayo. Near the end of the game, Hollins had no choice but to bench Mayo in hopes of containing Jackson.
"Stephen Jackson was backing me down and hitting jump shots," Mayo said. "For the first time in my entire life I had to sit down at the end of a game because I couldn't guard my man. From that day on, I was like, 'I have to get better at ball handling and being a lead guard.' There may be a ceiling for me at shooting guard. Every night I'm battling guys 6-6, 6-7 and it's kind of tough for me."
None of this is to say that Mayo is losing confidence in his game.
He's already a proven NBA scorer with deft shooting ability. Mayo, along with Rudy Gay, is one of the league's many young talents who will participate in a USA Basketball training camp July 19.
But even Mayo acknowledges that his size limits how dynamic he can be off the ball despite averaging about 18 points and 45-percent shooting for his career.
Mayo and his coaches believe that he can present matchup problems for the opposition during stretches at the point.
"I've played with the ball all my life," Mayo said. "I got to college (at USC) and coach (Tim) Floyd liked me at the two spot because of how I shoot. Then, I got here and wasn't able to have the opportunity. We have Mike Conley, who is a great point guard and has been since he was 10. I'm not scared to say that I'm not good at it right now. I just need to work on my ball handling and find a way to dominate the game without scoring."
Griz assistant coach Damon Stoudamire, a recently retired NBA point guard, said, "Being able to handle the ball against pressure is really what we're looking for. ... But nobody's looking for him to be like a Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo. That's not him. As long as he can get us in the offense and direct traffic he'll be fine."
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jun/16/mayo-out-to-make-a-point/
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Im liking what i hear from OJ Mayo. I have my doubts though, i honestly dont think he'll be able to play the point efficiently.
I wonder what bhz has to say about the snubs
I wonder what bhz has to say about the snubs
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Yeah I don't see O.J. transitioning to full time PG (at least anytime soon). He just doesn't have the ball handling or mentality for it. I love his court vision though. But if he could play spot up PG for five or ten minutes a game it would be welcomed.
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I don't see OJ making the transition next year, but by the time he's 25 I can see him being that guy. Whether or not he's still on the team at that time is the difference.
Even he mentioned that he couldn't be that guy right off the bat because its been 3 years since he's actually played PG.
My thing is when he played with Team USA last summer, they said he did very well against guys like Rose and Augustine. This should've happened his rookie season when I wanted them to at least play him more as a backup when they traded Lowry and they had GREG BUCKNER playing that role.
And its not surprising to see us getting snubbed. We've been getting snubbed since 2002 when Amare Stoudemire didn't want to work out for us. Sometimes guys don't work out for you becaus they don't think they will have a chance at getting significant playing time, sometime it deals with the style of play and sometime it deals with the front office. Back then we had Pau, so I could see why Amare didn't want to work out this year with us. This year, I think its moreso the front office and people downing them along with the talent we already have at certain positions.
And its Gordon Hayward....
He's really the only one that came out and really snubbed us. I know Bradley does have a bad ankle injury and Elliot has a guarentee from the Spurs, so he probably feel like its useless to workout for us when we pick 5 picks later after them. Heisley is still working on George to come in next week, so as long as George/Henry/Babbitt are on our radar I'm good.
I'm starting to think that Henry may end up being our pick now because he fits the NBA ready build along with perimeter shooting and size that we need. I think George and Babbitt are too risky for us and Heisley may not want to go that route after taking Thabeet last draft. After workouts and what I've heard, I see it being some combination of Patterson / Henry / White/ Crawford. We should come out of the draft with two of those guys IMO.
Even he mentioned that he couldn't be that guy right off the bat because its been 3 years since he's actually played PG.
My thing is when he played with Team USA last summer, they said he did very well against guys like Rose and Augustine. This should've happened his rookie season when I wanted them to at least play him more as a backup when they traded Lowry and they had GREG BUCKNER playing that role.
And its not surprising to see us getting snubbed. We've been getting snubbed since 2002 when Amare Stoudemire didn't want to work out for us. Sometimes guys don't work out for you becaus they don't think they will have a chance at getting significant playing time, sometime it deals with the style of play and sometime it deals with the front office. Back then we had Pau, so I could see why Amare didn't want to work out this year with us. This year, I think its moreso the front office and people downing them along with the talent we already have at certain positions.
And its Gordon Hayward....
I'm starting to think that Henry may end up being our pick now because he fits the NBA ready build along with perimeter shooting and size that we need. I think George and Babbitt are too risky for us and Heisley may not want to go that route after taking Thabeet last draft. After workouts and what I've heard, I see it being some combination of Patterson / Henry / White/ Crawford. We should come out of the draft with two of those guys IMO.
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More than anything, I love Henry's attitude and willingness to adapt to being a role player. Obviously the talent is there for him to be a good player as well, but those two things stick out to me.
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Babbitt or Henry.. Kno1 else
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Tillery said:
1. Grizz still trying to fInd trades and expects that chatter to pick up this week
2. Grizz have cooled on Babbitt
3. Top choices at 12 - Patrick Patterson, Xavier Henry, Paul George
4. Someone with Grizz would select Eric Bledsoe at 12
I'm hoping for Henry or George. Patterson may be ok, but Bledsoe at 12 is
1. Grizz still trying to fInd trades and expects that chatter to pick up this week
2. Grizz have cooled on Babbitt
3. Top choices at 12 - Patrick Patterson, Xavier Henry, Paul George
4. Someone with Grizz would select Eric Bledsoe at 12
I'm hoping for Henry or George. Patterson may be ok, but Bledsoe at 12 is
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The Grizzlies' draft process has many voices, but one boss
By Ron Tillery
So, what's it look like when you pull back the curtain on the Grizzlies' draft process?
Who makes those picks, anyway?The best answer is: Well, it all depends. Despite the constant of Michael Heisley as owner, the process has changed as the front office has changed. If you're counting at home, the Griz -- well known for a revolving door for players and coaches -- are working on their fourth organizational hierarchy as it relates to drafting.
Gone is the wholly collaborative effort of the @+@# Versace/Billy Knight regime. And, the autonomy that Jerry West and, later, Marc Iavaroni once wielded is history.
Now, as the Griz prepare for their 10th draft since moving to Memphis, the organization's preparation and mode of operation is described as collaborative at different levels -- but with Heisley ultimately making the final call.
That means the team's scouts, coaches and general manager Chris Wallace form opinions independent of each other. They feed information to Heisley, and whatever decision the Griz make Thursday during the draft -- they have the Nos. 12, 25 and 28 picks of the first round -- will come from their Chicago-based billionaire boss.
"But I don't want people to think that I'm the guy who picks the player out of nothing," Heisley said. "What I do is I take the opinions of various people. I question them. I try to evaluate their opinions. I put that together, and then Chris and I make a decision. Do we all sit down and take a vote? No. Somebody has to make the decision."
Heisley began to wield control over major decisions just before the 2008 draft. West was a year removed from retirement and Iavaroni had been stripped of his decision-making powers.
Now, the Grizzlies' process of preparing for the draft and exercising picks/trades comes down to how Heisley interprets the information he receives.
The scouting department, led by Tony Barone Sr. and Tony Barone Jr., sends Heisley documents regarding players it likes and how the draft could unfold.
Wallace continually makes recommendations. Head coach Lionel Hollins eventually has his say.
"Mike simply wants to see that there has been a process. Mike is a guy who will debate you on anything," Wallace said. "He wants to see that there are layers to your opinion and that you're willing to stand for what your opinion is. And that's fine because it forces you to think through what you've come up with."
Truth is, Heisley wants to be sold and everyone in the franchise understands that.
"I don't think Mike dominates the process but he has the right to make the call," Hollins said. "It's his team and his money. We have to present information that lets him be more comfortable with what we think. Owners have the right to be involved."
Heisley's level of involvement, though, has shifted through the seasons. Then-GM Knight wanted Pau Gasol in 2001 and won the right to pick the Spaniard over high schooler Eddy Curry. West, as president of basketball operations, was responsible for Drew Gooden in 2002. Then-assistant GM Tom Penn convinced the war room to go with Hakim Warrick in 2005 when an angry and dejected West stormed out because his player was off the board.
Former head coach Iavaroni's desire in 2007 was to grab Mike Conley, so the Griz took him with the fourth overall pick.
Last year, at least half of the front office believed in guard Stephen Curry. Heisley -- his role having reached buck-stops-here status -- entered the proceedings with center Hasheem Thabeet on his mind, and found a strong advocate for the pick in Barone Sr.
Thabeet, it was.
Who will serve as the influencer this year is anyone's guess.
"Everyone has an option to voice their opinion on players," Barone Sr. said. "My thing is, here's the information. Here's what I believe. If I was in a different role I might want more to say about it. But as the player personnel director, I'm providing information. You look at it and you make the evaluation based on what we say."
There are indications that the team's front office lacks strong voices -- that those debates Heisley loves are often one-sided affairs.
Wallace would only say that "we can't do anything that Mike is adamantly opposed to."
And Heisley isn't opposed to overriding seemingly sound opinions. Signing Allen Iverson isn't the only move Heisley has made despite being vehemently opposed by his basketball people in recent years.
He entered the 2008 draft determined to trade the pick. He wanted to acquire the second overall pick from Miami for the right to draft Michael Beasley even though the consensus among his coaches and scouts was to draft Love.
Undeterred, Heisley -- with Wallace firmly on board -- spearheaded the draft-day deal that netted the Grizzlies O.J. Mayo. There still were more votes for keeping Love, whom the Griz selected with the fifth overall pick.
"I was a big supporter of O.J. so I basically made that choice," Heisley said. "Chris agreed with me. We had a lot of people that didn't agree with me. But we went ahead anyway. So far, I feel comfortable with that choice. As for Thabeet, I made that decision. But I had a lot of recommendation."
Heisley can be unconventional in his information gathering.
For example, he still communicates regularly with Versace and West, people who used to work for the Griz but were fired (Versace) or retired (West).
Heisley will take his solicitation a step further this year. He's invited a few high-profile college coaches, whom he won't identify, to address the Grizzlies' front office with their opinions about players in the draft.
"These are very knowledgeable basketball people," Heisley said. "I use coach Gene Bartow (president of Hoops LP). Jerry is considered possibly the best basketball mind in the industry and @+@# Versace has always been very knowledgeable. I know that @+@# and Jerry have more basketball knowledge in their little finger than my whole body.
"And I don't think I have more knowledge than Tony Barone when I come into this. I just want to know why he's picking this guy. But Chris and I have to make the decision in the end."
Publicly, Wallace doesn't appear to be offended at Heisley's reliance on relative outsiders.
"I'm satisfied with my level of involvement," Wallace said. "Decision-making is a fluid process. There's probably no team in the NBA where the decision-making breaks down to the same proportion every time. It doesn't work out that way. The only time it does is when you have a czar general manager who has complete control of the franchise. There aren't too many of those situations in the NBA any more."
When the Grizzlies convene for their final draft preparation Wednesday afternoon, the scouting department will have done its homework and readied it for presentation. Heisley, Wallace, the Barones, Hollins and assistant general manager Kenny Williamson will convene for a comprehensive draft overview.
Barone Sr. will direct the meeting, which will cover everything from player rankings to opinions on who the Grizzlies should pick.
"We'll go over every detail," Heisley said. "It goes sometimes until the next morning."
Draft day then brings about organized chaos. Debates rage on. Wallace works the phones for potential trades nonstop while pacing the floor.
"It's like a telethon you see on TV," Wallace said. "The telephones are constantly ringing."
Heisley, though, makes this one thing very clear: while the Grizzlies' draft process may ring out with many voices, it's not a democracy.
"We don't vote," he said. "Somebody eventually has to make a decision.
"But I don't think I'm running the team. I'm more active than I have ever been. So people take that as I'm running the team. I take responsibility for the mistakes because the buck stops at the top. Just like President Obama has to take responsibility whether he makes the mistakes or not. With the Grizzlies, it used to be Jerry West, now it's Mike Heisley. It's that simple. That doesn't mean Chris doesn't make most of the decisions.
"I've deferred to Chris. I deferred to Chris and Iavaroni on the (Pau) Gasol trade. I'm not upset. I made that decision. But I think Chris would be the first person to tell you that they recommended it to me. Do I make the decisions for HEICO (his company)? Yeah. Do I talk to Stan Meadows (HEICO and Grizzlies lead attorney)? You bet your (butt). Sometimes I defer, and that's decision making."
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jun/20/owners-manual/
Fantastic.
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Heisley can go to hell. The man makes me sick. Signing Chris Wallace to a contract extension was also a terrible idea.
On a side note, I had no idea there were this many Grizz fans on the board. Glad this thread popped up on the first page, I've found a new home lol.
On a side note, I had no idea there were this many Grizz fans on the board. Glad this thread popped up on the first page, I've found a new home lol.
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Cliffnotes on those two articles?
I like Henry, but with OJ there already?
He'll be a good shooter off the bench though.
I like Henry, but with OJ there already?
He'll be a good shooter off the bench though.
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Read about that earlier.
Its a shame that this still goes on in our front office. Having these many opinions and letting a guy that barely knows anything about basketball make the final decision can result in a terrible outcome.
There's no telling what could happen in this draft with us, but we are said to be trying to move up.
Its a shame that this still goes on in our front office. Having these many opinions and letting a guy that barely knows anything about basketball make the final decision can result in a terrible outcome.
There's no telling what could happen in this draft with us, but we are said to be trying to move up.
On a side note, I had no idea there were this many Grizz fans on the board. Glad this thread popped up on the first page, I've found a new home lol.
Welcome to the world of us 3-4 Grizz fans.
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I wouldnt like Curry at #2 (granted, Memphis would have traded down and maybe taken some assets) but thats a SMALL backcourt, and while both OJ and Curry are pretty solid defenders despite their small size, they would get demolished by more physical guards like Deron, Kobe, etc.
OJ getting outlet passes and open 3s though,
OJ getting outlet passes and open 3s though,
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Curry and Mayo backcourt would get abused nightly.
I really wasn't in love with anyone at #2 last season. Thabeet screamed bust from the start, I wasn't sure Evans' play could be conducive to winning games and Curry didn't want to be in Memphis and would've been a reach at #2.
I really wasn't in love with anyone at #2 last season. Thabeet screamed bust from the start, I wasn't sure Evans' play could be conducive to winning games and Curry didn't want to be in Memphis and would've been a reach at #2.
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Welcome to the world of us 3-4 Grizz fans.
How many of you guys are from Tennessee? I'm in NYC now, but I was born and raised in West Tennessee, about an hour outside of Memphis. I try to catch them up here when they play the Knicks (and stand out like a sore thumb lol) and when I visit home. I miss seeing them on a regular basis though. I've yet to meet a fan outside of the state
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I can't say I'm a full fledged Grizzlies fan like the rest of you guys, despite a good amount of posts are on them.
I grew up a Laker fan, but I took an interest in them when Jerry West took over the team. I loved watching Hubie Brown's ten man rotation. My interest lessened until O.J. (and Marc) came on board.
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Solid draft overall.
I would like to see us hopefully address our stretch 4 need via trade. There are attainable guys out there.
My analysis on the players:
Vasquez is the type of guy that gives you the same type of emotion we want out of Conley, but he has the size, shooting ability and makes slightly better decisions than Lowry. Perfect idea player next to OJ IMO, but its too early to even say he should be a starter or given alot of minutes. I do believe that he can work his way in and become exactly what we need beside OJ. He will definitely be competing in practice.
Depending on what else we do, Henry will be solid for us off the bench. I think he will be better than anybody that came off our bench last season (including Sam). He will get his points during the actual flow of the offense rather than isolation. Add in his shooting ability, IQ and we should also become a slightly better 3-point shooting team.
I wish we could've kept Dominique Jones, but I understand we had a logjam at the guard spots. What's wrong with having depth or at least keeping them around to add in a future deal? The cash will more than likely be for us to re-sign Brewer and Rudy back.
I just hope we're not done. We improved, but other teams in the West also improved so we have to do more.
I would like to see us hopefully address our stretch 4 need via trade. There are attainable guys out there.
My analysis on the players:
Vasquez is the type of guy that gives you the same type of emotion we want out of Conley, but he has the size, shooting ability and makes slightly better decisions than Lowry. Perfect idea player next to OJ IMO, but its too early to even say he should be a starter or given alot of minutes. I do believe that he can work his way in and become exactly what we need beside OJ. He will definitely be competing in practice.
Depending on what else we do, Henry will be solid for us off the bench. I think he will be better than anybody that came off our bench last season (including Sam). He will get his points during the actual flow of the offense rather than isolation. Add in his shooting ability, IQ and we should also become a slightly better 3-point shooting team.
I wish we could've kept Dominique Jones, but I understand we had a logjam at the guard spots. What's wrong with having depth or at least keeping them around to add in a future deal? The cash will more than likely be for us to re-sign Brewer and Rudy back.
I just hope we're not done. We improved, but other teams in the West also improved so we have to do more.
How many of you guys are from Tennessee? I'm in NYC now, but I was born and raised in West Tennessee, about an hour outside of Memphis. I try to catch them up here when they play the Knicks (and stand out like a sore thumb lol) and when I visit home. I miss seeing them on a regular basis though. I've yet to meet a fan outside of the state
I live in Memphis, but go to MTSU during the fall/spring. Graduating in a year though. Whenever I have a few breaks from school, I'll come home and go to some games every now and then. They show them all the time where I go to school at since I'm like 30 mins outside of Nashville.
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I'd give them a B+.
Been on the Henry bandwagon for the longest, so I was glad that they took them. Actually surprised they took the guy that made the most sense.
I wish management could have traded Jones for at least a future pick, but if they want to save money for Rudy, then that is tolerable I guess.
Vasquez makes sense given his size and skills. I'm worried about his ability to defend though but he addressed a need.
Been on the Henry bandwagon for the longest, so I was glad that they took them. Actually surprised they took the guy that made the most sense.
I wish management could have traded Jones for at least a future pick, but if they want to save money for Rudy, then that is tolerable I guess.
Vasquez makes sense given his size and skills. I'm worried about his ability to defend though but he addressed a need.
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My man Vasquez!
I saw the footage of his reaction when he got drafted
GOOD LUCK TO HIM IN THE LEAGUE!
I saw the footage of his reaction when he got drafted
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Excited to see OJ & Henry or OJ & Vasquez in the backcourt for some time during games.. I think vasquez brings the intensity you need from a PG that conley doesnt
