Michael Moore just as deceptive as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

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I usually pride myself on my ability to think for myself, but I was pretty much on the band wagon when Bowling for Columbine came out.  The NRA, to me, seemed like a ridiculous and hateful organization.

But this write up on Moore's techniques shows that some of his methods are blatantly dishonest and deceptful.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

The author, David Hardy, is a member of the NRA (which makes on consider bias) but much of what he writes is sourced.  But even then, some of what he passes off as fact is more than questionable.  He does acknowledge some of the good points of the movie, for example, how the media does in fact feed off of fear. 

The goal of this thread is to further show that you can't trust ANY form of mass media.  That we can all be very easily swayed into believing things through propaganda.  That we often have to force ourselves to question against our will. 

In the spoiler there is 1 specific passage I found interesting if you don't feel like reading the whole thing.

Question everything NT.

Spoiler [+]

2. NRA and the Reaction To Tragedy. A major theme in Bowling isthat NRA is callous toward slayings. In order to make this theme fit thefacts, however, Bowling repeatedly distorts the evidence.

A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays thiswith the following sequence:
Weeping children outside Columbine;

Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"

Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"

The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths-- or, as one reviewerput it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed toLittleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy."The portrayal is in fact false.
Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:
In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.

The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.

"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.


Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting.

Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.
Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript.

Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore has to separate the two segments.

hestondenver.jpg


Moore's second edit (covered by splicing in a pan shot of the crowd) deletes Heston's announcement that NRA has in fact cancelled most of its meeting:
"As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that."


Moore then cuts to Heston noting that Denver's mayor asked NRA not to come, and shows Heston replying "I said to the Mayor: As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!" as if in defiance.

Actually, Moore put an edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at its end! Heston really said (with reference his own WWII vet status) "I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing."

Moore cuts it after "I said to the Mayor" and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: "As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land." He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of the Mayor before going back and showing Heston.

Moore has Heston then triumphantly announce "Don't come here? We're already here!" Actually, that sentence is clipped from a segment five paragraphs farther on in the speech. Again, Moore uses an editing trick to cover the doctoring, switching to a pan shot of the audience as Heston's (edited) voice continues.

What Heston said there was:
"NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy."

"NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity."




I recently discovered that Moore has set up a new webpage to respondto a chosen few points of criticism, one of which is his, er, creative editingof Heston's speech. Click here for alink to his page, and for my response to his attempted defense of what hedid. Basically, Moore contends that he didn't mean for the viewer to getthe impression that "cold dead hands" was spoken at Denver --that just "appears as Heston is being introduced in narration."
 
Dog, you just discovering this? Michael Moore is one of the most liberally biased, deceptive and manipulative film makers out there. You're right, he's just as bad as Glenn Beck and Limbaugh, but I could argue even worse because of the fact we're currently in a left leaning political atmosphere and the media/ public eats his films up.
 
Dog, you just discovering this? Michael Moore is one of the most liberally biased, deceptive and manipulative film makers out there. You're right, he's just as bad as Glenn Beck and Limbaugh, but I could argue even worse because of the fact we're currently in a left leaning political atmosphere and the media/ public eats his films up.


I knew he would obviously have a liberal bias. I didn't know he spliced videos and speech together to make the NRA look like the devil.

Biased doesn't mean deceptive


Agreed. But Moore is flat out deceptive in this film.
 
You seen "Michael Moore Hates America"? Its not really an eye-opener, but worth a Netflix download.

I don't think he's as deceptive as Beck or Limbaugh, though. Those dudes are full of crap and everyone knows it. Moore is dangerous because he has a huge following and attacks everyone's favorite punching bags. Then he puts a nice bow on everything and you don't realize that he just made you hate WalMart because some kids in Colorado went off the deep end. His evidence and tactics are so far removed from anything relevant and respectable that its hard to accept his work as anything short of fiction. And his political positions line up fairly well with Ron Paul but he claimed he wouldn't vote for Paul because he "has an R in front of his name." That's all I needed to hear. Anyone voting strictly on party affiliation is worth ignoring.
 
obviously. 
still, doesn't mean that what he says is completely false. He bends information to his advantage. Politicians, the media and pretty much 

everyone else from marketers, economists, to the president  has has always been doing that. Some professions (i.e. lawyers) get paid a lot of money 

to do this effectively.  Its completely up to you to draw your own conclusions. 
 
Thing is, look at moore. i would argue that the man has his audience but its not nearly as wide an audience that tunes into fox news or the rush program each day. I think its irresponsible to compare the three outside from perhaps a tactical point of view. The behavior of the consumer to take fox and rush as news analysts is utterly deplorable. moore is portrayed as a fringe theorist in his documentaries at best.
 
Originally Posted by Mo Matik



The goal of this thread is to further show that you can't trust ANY form of mass media.  That we can all be very easily swayed into believing things through propaganda.  That we often have to force ourselves to question against our will.  
Once a person becomes Media literate, and realizes that ALL content is created, has a purpose, a message, and isn't naturally the truth, can you really began to see how much trash we are being fed from every direction.
 
Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Biased doesn't mean deceptive.
This. He is very bias in everything he does but a large portion is truth. But I agree with you. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. Do research, don't watch a movie and just take it as fact.
 
kdawg wrote:
You're forgetting that reality has a liberal bias.

A classical liberal bias that is, reality has favored rule of law, limited government, respect for human rights, pluralism and individual autonomy and reality has punished the opposite of that. Reality has a bias against lawlessness in government, capriciousness in government, parochial and provincial politics and world views and contempt for the individual and his or her right to autonomy from established religious and social and political mores. Those very illiberal societies are doomed to tyranny and stagnation.

At this time in American History, neither major political party can say that it is any where close to being devoid of all aforementioned those poverty, slavery and misery causing traits and patterns of behavior. What has taken centuries of trial and error to accomplish is being stamped out very rapidly. The very best parts of Western civilization, things like limited government, rule of law, individualism, voluntary association, freedom of thought and speech (especially in the face of dogma) are not only being eroded through apathy but they are being actively attacked and dismantled by all sorts of political, academic and business elites.
 
Originally Posted by kdawg

You're forgetting that reality has a liberal bias.

word to the sig...


But here's the good news OP... We are all bias (everyone in here.. everyone you know... and everyone you don't know)

The key is whether or not a person admits the bias or not..
 
LOL ... i swear i love how all these people are starting to see the light ... between this thread and my friend's status, "Somebody ask me y im not voting in 2012,i said y the hell would i vote.No matter who they claim to be,they're all politicians,they talk a good game but dont walk it.If u talk alot of !%$@ and %$$$$+%@ all the time,u will have a very very bright future in politrics!!!!" i have a little hope for our future ... but that could all change if in 2012 Obama gets elected again ...
 
Originally Posted by ekon one

Dog, you just discovering this? Michael Moore is one of the most liberally biased, deceptive and manipulative film makers out there. You're right, he's just as bad as Glenn Beck and Limbaugh, but I could argue even worse because of the fact we're currently in a left leaning political atmosphere and the media/ public eats his films up.

Couldn't have said it better my self brotha
 
Originally Posted by moneyisthemotive

LOL ... i swear i love how all these people are starting to see the light ... between this thread and my friend's status, "Somebody ask me y im not voting in 2012,i said y the hell would i vote.No matter who they claim to be,they're all politicians,they talk a good game but dont walk it.If u talk alot of !%$@ and %$$$$+%@ all the time,u will have a very very bright future in politrics!!!!" i have a little hope for our future ... but that could all change if in 2012 Obama gets elected again ...
Why the hell would you not vote.. People complain complain complain about the political system and then don't vote. The most *!$ backwards argument ever.

Obama getting elected was this generations most involved moment of politics. If not the most inspiring for this generation that will come from politics. We made the elections. We won it for him.

But he's the closest you are going to get. Or the ability to get, If that is what you are looking for.

And I disagree with him on a good amount because he is not liberal enough. Or as much as he was campaigning..

Obama not being liberal enough is a good percentage our fault as it is his.. We didn't push him to the positions he campaigned on. We let Washington dictate his agenda instead of fighting everyday to get him to do what he said. We gave up once he was sworn in because we "did our part." But our part never ends.

So if you want to complain about the political system it is just as much your fault and my fault and everyone complaining fault as it is theirs because if you put the pressure on a politician he will fold.
 
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