NBA's Top 25 under 25 discussion

[marath0n]

Thornton > All

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

But Jeff went for 33 against TD...

they both must be reading this thread.

Darko had two great games against TD, so I consider a great game against KG over a great game against TD who is declining. Green still isn'trebounding, stealing the ball or blocking shots the way Millsap is. Look how consistent Millsap's numbers have been in the past 12 games he's startedand look how consistent Green has been. I don't know what has got into Millsap, but he is going to make Boozer just walk away and force Utah re-sign him tobig dollars.

 

[JD617]

Rondo outplayed Deron on both ends of the floor last night.

 

[leronjames]

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have thanZach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner wouldtake over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that,different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of youfantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in theseason. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how muchdefense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, hedidn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPNhighlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do otherthan score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it'sa little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, butthat's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respectivetalents. [/rant]

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Melo's defensive problems stem from the fact that he has terrible defensive footwork, and he gambles too much.

He has played more D and given more effort this year. He still takes plays off though, but at least he's making the effort...Right?

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have than Zach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner would take over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that, different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of you fantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in the season. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how much defense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, he didn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPN highlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do other than score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it's a little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, but that's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respective talents. [/rant]

There seem to be some holes in your work here........go in and fix those and then come back. Thanks.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have than Zach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner would take over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that, different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of you fantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in the season. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how much defense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, he didn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPN highlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do other than score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it's a little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, but that's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respective talents. [/rant]

Even if you didnt say it,I could tell that you are a bias nuggets fan.

Either way,That short story you just wrote is full of contradictions. Go back, patch it up and make up your mind about your basketball opinions.

 

[verdykt]

I agree with most of the list. Milsap is an animal straight up. He led the NCAA in rebounding for 3 straight seasons. I've never seen Oklahoma play (i needthe league pass) but I know jeff green can ball. You just don't hear as much about him because of where he plays. I wish I could see more games, because hewas great at Georgetown. I would prefer Milsap over him though, even if I werent a Jazz fan.

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have than Zach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner would take over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that, different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of you fantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in the season. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how much defense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, he didn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPN highlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do other than score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it's a little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, but that's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respective talents. [/rant]

There seem to be some holes in your work here........go in and fix those and then come back. Thanks.

If you don't have a rebuttle, don't bother posting a response. What a cop out.

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have than Zach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner would take over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that, different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of you fantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in the season. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how much defense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, he didn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPN highlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do other than score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it's a little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, but that's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respective talents. [/rant]

Even if you didnt say it,I could tell that you are a bias nuggets fan.

Either way,That short story you just wrote is full of contradictions. Go back, patch it up and make up your mind about your basketball opinions.

Story? Lol, that took me less than 5 minutes to type. Y'all are hunt-n-peck on the keyboard, eh? I think my opinion was pretty clear. Melo has the samelevel of talents as Lebron, but Lebron is annointed on here and Melo is s^&*ted on. I am a biased Nuggets fan, and that's the same reason I won'tcome out and speak on Lebron like I will Melo, because I don't get to watch Lebron enough to make that statement. I was asking. And none of you haveanswered it. What does Lebron do so much better than Melo? I'll be waiting...

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

What does Lebron do so much better than Melo? I'll be waiting...

Everything outside of jump shooting.

Next question?

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Melo's defensive problems stem from the fact that he has terrible defensive footwork, and he gambles too much.

He has played more D and given more effort this year. He still takes plays off though, but at least he's making the effort...Right?

That is part of it, sure, he needs to improve his ability to stay with the guy he's defending, and he does still take some plays off (justlike Lebron, Kobe, and every other "great" player that NT loves). I disagree with the gambling part though, he hasn't been doing that as muchthis year, that was inspired a lot by AI since he did it on every other play. Another big part of it is the team system. If the other 4 guys aren'tmoving and switching on defense, he's obviously not going to be any good at it either. They got rid of a selfish defenderi n Camby and a non-existentdefenderi n AI, and adding a playmaker like Chauncey, Melo and everybody else on the team moves better on defense. They all spend more energy and pay moreattention defensively, in general, as well. So, it's one of those things where, in order for Melo to get better at it, the team has to have some focus onit. And they do. And he's making the effort and getting better. It's great for him and the team. Hence the 17-7 record.

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by Chester McFloppy

Originally Posted by LeronJames

What does Lebron do so much better than Melo? I'll be waiting...

Everything outside of jump shooting.

Next question?

Be more specific. Lebron is a better defender? How much better? I don't see him working too hard on defense when I watch Cavs games... Lebron is abetter passer? Arguable, again, as Melo is pretty good at getting the ball to his guys, especially passes into the post. What else? Melo is a betterrebounder this year than Lebron... Lebron takes it to the basket more than Melo lately, and his dunks are flashier and he jumps higher. What else? Let meknow. Thanks.

 

[yungmatt]

Lebron is better than Melo at Every aspect of basketball except shooting... Basketball IQ included

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have than Zach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner would take over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that, different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of you fantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in the season. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how much defense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, he didn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPN highlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do other than score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it's a little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, but that's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respective talents. [/rant]

There seem to be some holes in your work here........go in and fix those and then come back. Thanks.

If you don't have a rebuttle, don't bother posting a response. What a cop out.

Dude, what i just highlighted is a rebuttal. You can't figure that out? You the dude who says every GM would take Melo second after Lebron.......but Iwouldn't call him a top 5-10 player. Well which is it?

What does Lebron do besides score at will..........but I'm not saying all he does is score. Well, which is it?

Those are rebuttals sir. Basically I was asking what in the F are you talking about with this crap you posted? I gave it to you slightly with the littlehighlighters and what not and you still ain't smart enough to figure it out? So now I spelled it out for you kid. Fix your sh*^. It don't make nodamn sense.

 

[leronjames]

Better rebounder? Don't think so. Melo also has a better career FT% (one of those stats that actually does mean something). My point isn't to arguethat Melo is better than Lebron, but that they are players on a similar level with their respective talents. When I ask for specific reasons why that isn'ttrue, it seems like none of you guys can answer.

 

[JD617]

LOL at what this thread has turned into. Are we really arguing about Lebron and Melo? Circa 2008, not 2004?

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Lebron has a better handle than 'Melo?

'Bron has a better first step?

Bron is better at more facets of the game than Melo.

But there are some (meaning more than 1) where Melo is better.

Bron is a better player than Melo, at the end of the day...

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Better rebounder? Don't think so.

6.9 > 6.1. At least in most peoples worlds.

Melo also has a better career FT% (one of those stats that actually does mean something).

Yep, 79.5% to 73.3%. While we're talking about stats that actually mean something...

27.3 ppg > 24.3 ppg.
6.9 rpg > 6.1 rpg.
6.6 apg > 3.1 apg.
1.8 spg > 1.0 spg.
1.3 @ 32.2% from 3 pt range > 0.7 @ 30.1% from 3 pt range.

Using just stats, LeBron > Carmelo. Watching basketball, LeBron > Carmelo.

Anything I missed?

 

[CP1708]

This dude......Why does Hakeem have a better dream shake then David Robinson, how come you guys can't answer that for me? huh, huh?

How the would we know WHY someone has something better then someone else? Lebron is leaps and bounds better then Melo. Allllll across the board. He'snot a better jump shooter, that is it. WHYYYYYYYY is Melo a better jump shooter? Who *^$%#^ knows why? He just is.

Bron is a better passer, better rebounder, hustles more, has a better IQ, has become a better defender absolutely, yes Dre has a better first step, maybeI'll say Melo is better on the block, but I dunno about that one, Bron is a beast and when he figures out how to use the block, forget it.

Why is the sky blue? I dunno, it just is, move on. Bron is in All time ever type tier, Melo, is not, so how can you try to argue that they are close instature?

Come on man.

 

[the pga tour]

Melo's stats are inflated too because of the amount of possesions too.

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by LeronJames

Look, I know I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to Melo, but let's be serious here. One guy is even asking how Melo is a better player to have than Zach Randolph. I worry about some of you guys. At his position, I don't think there's a player in the league other than Lebron who any sane owner would take over Melo, especially after his progress thus far in the 08-09 season. I'm not gonna say he's a top 5 or 10 player, you can't say that, different teams have different needs at different positions and different players have different talents. This is a team sport, after all. I know a lot of you fantasy stat trackers forget this from time to time. It's all good though, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Let's revisit this later in the season. Carmelo will be higher up on most peoples' lists, I'm pretty confident about that.

And just to put it out there for comparison's sake, since those who haven't been watching still complain that Melo doesn't play defense, how much defense does your man Lebron really play? Or does he benefit more from the overall team defensive positioning? Cuz last few times I watched Lebron, he didn't play all that much better defensively than Melo has, but he seems to make the top of anybody's list without question, thanks to all the ESPN highlights that he gets. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I really do love Lebron, he's one of my favorite players, but what does he really do other than score at will? These are all the same types of complaints people make about Melo but nobody ever makes them about Lebron. All I'm saying is, it's a little lopsided sometimes. Hype will do that. And I am not saying Lebron doens't do anything but score, I don't get to see him play too often, but that's how people treat Melo, and I really don't think they are all that different in terms of their contributions and the level of their respective talents. [/rant]

There seem to be some holes in your work here........go in and fix those and then come back. Thanks.

If you don't have a rebuttle, don't bother posting a response. What a cop out.

Dude, what i just highlighted is a rebuttal. You can't figure that out? You the dude who says every GM would take Melo second after Lebron.......but I wouldn't call him a top 5-10 player. Well which is it?

What does Lebron do besides score at will..........but I'm not saying all he does is score. Well, which is it?

Those are rebuttals sir. Basically I was asking what in the F are you talking about with this crap you posted? I gave it to you slightly with the little highlighters and what not and you still ain't smart enough to figure it out? So now I spelled it out for you kid. Fix your sh*^. It don't make no damn sense.

Highlighted your rebuttle? You took a bunch of statements out of context. Do I really need to go through and point out how those comments werehighlighted out of context? Ugh, OK. I won't call ANY PLAYER a top 5 player or top 10 player unless we are talking about their specific position (hencethe rest of the statement following the part you highlighted about how different players have different talents and different teams have different needs atdifferent positions). Melo and Leborn are the best 2 SF's in the L. That is a statement that you can make. But to say Kobe is the best basketball playerin the L doesn't make sense. He's the best SG, sure, but if you put him at the C position, is he going to be the best in the NBA at doing that? No. And how successful has Kobe been when not playing with a legit Center? Not very. I don't want to get too far from the point I'm making, but hopefullyyou get the picture here.

About Lebron and his scoring ability, it was a question. Tell me, as a knowledgable Lebron fan, what his specific talents are aside from scoring. Saying"everything" is a total cop out. Be specific. The point is, Melo is good at a lot of things other than scoring also, but many people label him as ascorer and nothing else. I was trying to shed some light on the inaccuracy of that idea by using Lebron as a comparison.

 

[lnmymind]

And how successful has Kobe been when not playing with a legit Center?
Umm....

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

This thread is gonna get locked cause it's turning into Lebron v.s Melo.

Quick, somebody talk %#+$ about Kevin Love

 

[i nasmatic i]

Originally Posted by LeronJames

He's the best SG, sure, but if you put him at the C position, is he going to be the best in the NBA at doing that? No. And how successful has Kobe been when not playing with a legit Center? Not very. I don't want to get too far from the point I'm making, but hopefully you get the picture here.