NCAA Will Allow Trans Athletes: Lia Thomas Becomes 1st NCAA Transgender Champion

[cragmatic]

Didn't this whole discussion get jump started because you bought in to some fearmongering that was sourced from ONE of your coworkers?

Pretty clear that this is more about shielding yourself from discomfort than it is about helping young people

It doesn’t discomfort me at all though. Please keep making assumptions. I literally frequent a breakfast joint in my town that is extremely LGBTQ friendly, they have several workers that fall under the T category. They have done drag shows (in the evening and not reading to children) and the pictures I saw, I have zero issue but yes they are dressed extremely sexually, and regardless if it’s a male or female, we shouldn’t bring that around kids, why is that controversial but please tell me more about my “discomfort”

I just believe that teenagers are easily influenced and persuaded and many teenagers can be confused about who they are and their identity in general. Why is that so awful to think?

 

[cragmatic]

It’s pretty funny how much every response has conveniently not responded to my point of the role social media and TikTok plays in influencing teenagers.

For three years now groups of teenagers have been stealing KIA’s and some have literally lost their lives over it, but let me guess, they were born to be criminals and social media influence and wanting to belong with their peers had zero impact on the path they went down?

 

[paulwest1985]

One thing is for sure, the left's hardline stance on the issue of transgender "rights" will all but guarantee a republican victory in the white house.

 

[IATT]

One thing is for sure, the left's hardline stance on the issue of transgender "rights" will all but guarantee a republican victory in the white house.

what exactly is their hardline stance though?

track and field’s governing body has changed their rules.. swimming’s governing body, changed their rules before that

I don’t recall any politician on the “left” challenging any of the rule changes

however, it does seem that the “right“ is choosing to ignore that the governing bodies of numerous sports have already addressed the issues


swimming:

FINA Restricts Transgender Women From Competing at Elite Level

The international swimming federation said transgender women who had experienced male puberty could not compete in women’s events.

www.nytimes.com

track and field:

Transgender athletes banned from track and field competitions, rules tightened for Semenya

In a pair of decisions expected to stoke outrage, the World Athletics Council adopted the same rules as swimming did last year in deciding to bar athletes who have transitioned from male to female and have gone through male puberty.

www.pbs.org

 

[RustyShackleford]

One thing is for sure, the left's hardline stance on the issue of transgender "rights" will all but guarantee a republican victory in the white house.

Dude the broader left coalition doesn't have a hardline stance on the issue. People on the internet you disagree with doesn't make up the entire left wing coalition that spans from socialist to centrist.

Hell recent polling shows that most Dem voters are against transgender athletes in sports, but support them having civil rights protections on the issues.

Polling already shows trans issues is not a needle mover for voters. Things helping GOP are the traditional fear mongering about stuff like crime and immigration.

And their hostility and bigotry towards the transgender community is not broadly popular. The GOP doesn't have some reasonable position on the issue.

You are just remixing the usual "you better agree with me or all things bad outcomes will happen" argument. It is not that simple.

 

[1995]

It doesn’t discomfort me at all though. Please keep making assumptions. I literally frequent a breakfast joint in my town that is extremely LGBTQ friendly, they have several workers that fall under the T category. They have done drag shows (in the evening and not reading to children) and the pictures I saw, I have zero issue but yes they are dressed extremely sexually, and regardless if it’s a male or female, we shouldn’t bring that around kids, why is that controversial but please tell me more about my “discomfort”

I just believe that teenagers are easily influenced and persuaded and many teenagers can be confused about who they are and their identity in general. Why is that so awful to think?

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was specifically talking about the idea of people under 18 who want to transition...that's what seems to make you uncomfortable

But kudos to you for going to a restaurant that employs trans people and looking at pictures of their drag show

 

[1995]

Facts About LGBTQ Youth Suicide | The Trevor Project

LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.

www.thetrevorproject.org

"Many LGBTQ youth lack access to affirming spaces, with only 55% of LGBTQ youth reporting that their school is LGBTQ-affirming and only 37% saying that their home is LGBTQ-affirming. Fewer than 1 in 3 transgender and nonbinary youth found their home to be gender-affirming and a little more than half (51%) found their school to be affirming. The Trevor Project’s research consistently finds that LGBTQ young people report lower rates of attempting suicide when they have access to LGBTQ-affirming spaces."

 

[RustyShackleford]

As I see it I think reasonable people can have reasonable objections about minor using puberty blockers, and undergoing reassignment surgeries. But when I hear this objections, even though I disagree with many of them, they are usually much narrow than what dudes like cragmatic is peddling.

Also if someone against kids socially transitioning, even when they have the approval of their parents, you are probably just an ******* or have some underlying bigotry. Because there are no medical consequences for doing that, and from what I read has net positive benefits for trans kids.

 

[cragmatic]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was specifically talking about the idea of people under 18 who want to transition...that's what seems to make you uncomfortable.

But kudos to you for going to a restaurant that employs trans people and looking at pictures of their drag show.

It doesn’t make me uncomfortable, I have literally said that people are downplaying the role of social media influence and peer pressures. And you conveniently ignoring that point shows that are clearly on to something

When we have sex Ed in schools we are taught about sexual from both a reproductive standpoint and procreation, as well as how to be safe. Outside of that, nothing was ever pushed to “explore your sexuality” and now people are literally obsessed with sexualizing children. And the opinion that we shouldn’t be pushing sexuality of any kind on kids and teenagers and let them be kids and teenagers is awfully controversial to some of you. Why do you want to rush kids into sexualizing themselves and not just let them enjoy their child hoods?

What an awful opinion , I must be so hateful and ignorant for thinking we should let kids be kids without pushing sexuality on them.

 

[cragmatic]

Rusty, do you think social media has influence over kids and teens? Tik tok included?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Rusty, do you think social media has influence over kids and teens? Tik tok included?

Yes

But that is not strictly the argument you are making. You are trying to connect this fact to act like social media is some how confusing kids into transitioning. It is a guess, and a reach.

You are making a rhetorical move here. Arguing one thing, and when challenged falling back on a softer position.

There is no widespread indoctrination campaign trying to get kids to become trans. To try to confuse them. Most of the content that is pro trans is trying to make information about the community salient to the general public that happens occupied whatever space. And telling the public that it is acceptable for someone to be trans. It does not make you less. If you think on the margins that some stuff goes too far or is unreasonable, ok, there might be examples of this. But like I said, I think examples of this are at the margins not the median.

So it could be that today's kids feel more comfortable about transitioning and oppose to generation past. Because they see society is more accepting, and comforting spaces exist. That would absolutely be a good thing.

It would be hard to tease out what is happening on a micro level, making sweeping macro level takes seems near impossible to me

Most parents, medical professionals, and educators that are trying to support trans kids are not taking their cues from TikTok. They take their jobs seriously, and act in good faith by kids. And don't hold extreme positions

I think framing it as gets getting confused on social media does a disservice to serious issue.

I think there is a lot of serious good faith thought that goes into the vast majority of minor transitioning. Especially among minors.

And people should acknowledge that.

 

[RustyShackleford]

New poll shows Americans overwhelmingly oppose anti-transgender laws

Two-thirds of Americans are against laws that would limit transgender rights, a new PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll found. That opposition includes majorities of every political ideology from liberal to conservative and every age group.

www.google.com

But two-thirds of Americans are against laws that would limit transgender rights, a new PBS NewsHour/NPR/Marist poll found. That opposition includes majorities of every political ideology from liberal to conservative and every age group.

This is from 2021.

Maybe things have changed a lot in the past two months. I am sure there might be some movement on the margins

But the GOP was insane about this **** in 2021, even more so now. And trans issues didn't seem like it was a winning issue for them in the 2022 midterms.

So I think saying the left is heading toward electoral doom because of their positions in this area seems like at best a hot take, at this point in time.

 

[cragmatic]

Yes

But that is not strictly the argument you are making. You are trying to connect this fact to act like social media is some how confusing kids into transitioning. It is a guess, and a reach.

You are making a rhetorical move here. Arguing one thing, and when challenged falling back on a softer position.

There is no widespread indoctrination campaign trying to get kids to become trans. To try to confuse them. Most of the content that is pro trans is trying to make information about the community salient to the general public that happens occupied whatever space. And telling the public that it is acceptable for someone to be trans. It does not make you less. If you think on the margins that some stuff goes too far or is unreasonable, ok, there might be examples of this. But like I said, I think examples of this are at the margins not the median.

So it could be that today's kids feel more comfortable about transitioning and oppose to generation past. Because they see society is more accepting, and comforting spaces exist. That would absolutely be a good thing.

It would be hard to tease out what is happening on a micro level, making sweeping macro level takes seems near impossible to me

Most parents, medical professionals, and educators that are trying to support trans kids are not taking their cues from TikTok. They take their jobs seriously, and act in good faith by kids. And don't hold extreme positions

I think framing it as gets getting confused on social media does a disservice to serious issue.

I think there is a lot of serious good faith thought that goes into the vast majority of minor transitioning. Especially among minors.

And people should acknowledge that.

That was actually very well said and I know you don’t care but I appreciate you for answering the question very well and in a civil manner: you make very good points and have made me reconsider some of the things I have said.

 

[IATT]

The “left”

 

[IATT]

 

[smedroc]

Lance forever doomed

 

[smedroc]

Women and men events use different apparatus for sports: javelins, discus, balls are often different, so you can't objectively judge the best times and distances that result from sports associated with them.

The way you phrased this makes it seem that women got them Rock Lee ankle weights on at all times

What 'different apparatus' actually means is women's field equipment is lighter.

 

[IATT]

It’s not just weight

you got height differences with hurdles, for example

 

[shogun]

Let males fight females in the ufc, a lot of matches would end up with fatalities like mortal kombat.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am a huge pro cycling fan

The thing is, on paper Lance seems to be asking a fair question.

But coming from him, I can't take it seriously.

Like he is one the biggest cheats ever, was a massive ******* to everyone when he was famous, tried to ruin people's lives that questioned him, and while having to admit his wrong doing is still somewhat of a major *******. He avoided the financial ruin he probably deserved too.

I can't take him seriously when he says he is concerned with fairness, and is opposed people getting backlash for their views. No one has been worse on these issues in the world of pro-cycling than Armstrong.

 

[Raji Lowenthal]

I am a huge pro cycling fan

The thing is, on paper Lance seems to be asking a fair question.

But coming from him, I can't take it seriously.

Like he is one the biggest cheats ever, was a massive ******* to everyone when he was famous, tried to ruin people's lives that questioned him, and while having to admit his wrong doing is still somewhat of a major *******. He avoided the financial ruin he probably deserved too.

I can't take him seriously when he says he is concerned with fairness, and is opposed people getting backlash for their views. No one has been worse on these issues in the world of pro-cycling than Armstrong.

Many times the message gets lost because of the messenger. If it's a fair question, it's a fair question.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Many times the message gets lost because of the messenger. If it's a fair question, it's a fair question.

The issue is that people hide behind claiming to ask a fair question when they have already made up their minds, and are using the supposed question asking as a rhetorical shield.

Lance Armstrong is a dude that has shown to be not a good-faith actor.

And the "I'm just asking questions" angle is usually a dead giveaway. Like he is still plugged into the cycling world. He can call up someone and ask them what physiological advantage would a trans woman have in women's cycling. He has done that for men competing in men's cycling.

So this "both sides" public search for data just seems a like fishy coming from him.

 

[RustyShackleford]

See what I mean, the first interview is with Caitlyn Jenner...




And this dude got the audacity to complain about cancel culture. This mother****er forgot how many lives he tried to ruin, how many people's livelihoods he ****ed with.

 

[Raji Lowenthal]

The issue is that people hide behind claiming to ask a fair question when they have already made up their minds, and are using the supposed question asking as a rhetorical shield.

Lance Armstrong is a dude that has soon to be not a good faith actor.

And the "I'm just asking questions" angle is usually a dead giveaway. Like he is still plugged into the cycling world. He can call up someone and ask them what physiological advantage would a trans woman have in women's cycling. He has done that for men competing in men's cycling.

So this both sides public search for data just seems a like fishy coming from him.

Lance's pedigree doesn't automatically make a statement false he aint the person to lead the charge agreeably.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lance's pedigree doesn't automatically make a statement false he aint the person to lead the charge agreeably.

Did I say it did?

This was in my first post on the issue...

I am a huge pro cycling fan

The thing is, on paper Lance seems to be asking a fair question.

But coming from him, I can't take it seriously.

Like he is one the biggest cheats ever, was a massive ******* to everyone when he was famous, tried to ruin people's lives that questioned him, and while having to admit his wrong doing is still somewhat of a major *******. He avoided the financial ruin he probably deserved too.

I can't take him seriously when he says he is concerned with fairness, and is opposed people getting backlash for their views. No one has been worse on these issues in the world of pro-cycling than Armstrong.