NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd

[ag 47]

To be fair, RGIII's schemes are tailored around him. The opening game against NO, they must have thrown 4 straight bubble screens....2 to each side of the field. Subtle things like that make a difference, but that doesn't discredit your overall point. Vick has always chucked it down the field in search of the bigger play, but Andy's usage of Vick this year has been ineffective to say the least.

 

[nooera]

RGIII's girlfriend is ugly, though.

 

[flyerthandelta]

You know u would smash

 

[nooera]

If she was ready and willing and i had to put in zero effort then yeah i'd smash. Wouldn't mention it to my boys though

 

[flyerthandelta]

Man whoever started that debate with rg3 better than Vick needs to leave the rocks alone....if anybody compare him to Cam....same college offense spread options n bubble screens...Shanahan dumbed down the offense to collegiate status to adapt to rg3 gm same thing they are doing in Carolina....it's a matter of time once they get enough film on him it's a wrap look at Cam for instance the only thing about Cam is he's not scrambling as much as rg3 and hes trying too much to be a pocket passer however rg3 won't throw for 4,500 yds.....Vick,Cam >>>>>>>RGIII

 

[lokillo40]

Maaaaan have you guys seen how accurate RGIII is when he does throw the ball down the field? And the ease of which he does it?

Shanahan knows what he's doing. Playing this college style offense early in the season because ITS WORKING. But I wouldn't be surprised if the ******** have some tricks up their sleeve. I kinda like that they run all those screens because defenses are expecting that... then boom RGIII throws a bomb. It's almost like Shanahan doesn't want other teams to know what RGIII is capable of. Look at that game against Buccs. Game was on the line and he had to throw down field and did it with ease.

 

[buc em]

If one more person mentions that "game winning drive against the Bucs" I swear.....

We blitzed EVERY time and left the whole middle of the field open. The receivers were wide open. It was the worst defensive playcalling and just all around defensive playing I've seen all year. They didn't even need to TRY to get into field goal position. We gave it to them.

I do think RG3 is a great player, just stop mentioning that as some heroic game winning drive when talking about him.

 

[5am6oody72]

To be fair, RGIII's schemes are tailored around him. The opening game against NO, they must have thrown 4 straight bubble screens....2 to each side of the field. Subtle things like that make a difference, but that doesn't discredit your overall point. Vick has always chucked it down the field in search of the bigger play, but Andy's usage of Vick this year has been ineffective to say the least.

So many people talking out of their ***** about RGIII (Not quoting you to single you out, but because I wanna address the point you brought up) That first series against the Saints was all packaged plays, Griffin went with the quick flanker screens because that was the best way to attack the defense on those plays. They marched right down the field did they not? Sure the offense hasn't been ridiculously complex, but he's not running a college offense either. That one drive wasn't indicative of how the offense has been run the rest of the year either. And the packaged play concept that OK St, Baylor, Texas etc are using will most certainly become more prominent in the pros; that is just now starting to creep in over the past few years. There's nothing wrong with a WR screen if that's the best play for what the defense is running; Peyton Manning just used that last night to get Stokley an easy TD.

Either way, he is a rookie who is LEADING THE LEAGUE IN COMPLETION %. Dude really commented "He'll be in the same boat as Vick if he doesn't step his passing game up." What games are you watching?

 

[jjs07]

If one more person mentions that "game winning drive against the Bucs" I swear.....
We blitzed EVERY time and left the whole middle of the field open. The receivers were wide open. It was the worst defensive playcalling and just all around defensive playing I've seen all year. They didn't even need to TRY to get into field goal position. We gave it to them.
I do think RG3 is a great player, just stop mentioning that as some heroic game winning drive when talking about him.

He was calling his own plays during the last drive because the headset in his helmet was broken. He did what he had to do to put the Skins in the position to win. THAT'S what you want out of your QB. Discredit him all you want, but facts are facts. He stepped up and made a play when he had to. Same can be said about the 76 yard run vs. the Vikes on Sunday.

Some of you guys going too far outta your way to minimize what he's done so far.

 

[flyerthandelta]

Ok this whole thing started with how rg3 is better than Vick lets end that foolishness...the question should be is, is he better than Cam? That's more reasonable

 

[ag 47]

So many people talking out of their ***** about RGIII (Not quoting you to single you out, but because I wanna address the point you brought up) That first series against the Saints was all packaged plays, Griffin went with the quick flanker screens because that was the best way to attack the defense on those plays. They marched right down the field did they not? Sure the offense hasn't been ridiculously complex, but he's not running a college offense either. That one drive wasn't indicative of how the offense has been run the rest of the year either. And the packaged play concept that OK St, Baylor, Texas etc are using will most certainly become more prominent in the pros; that is just now starting to creep in over the past few years. There's nothing wrong with a WR screen if that's the best play for what the defense is running; Peyton Manning just used that last night to get Stokley an easy TD.
Either way, he is a rookie who is LEADING THE LEAGUE IN COMPLETION %. Dude really commented "He'll be in the same boat as Vick if he doesn't step his passing game up." What games are you watching?

You're absolutely right. I wasn't diminishing the level at which RG3 has been playing. The larger point is that it certainly helps to have an entire staff tailor their entire offensive attack around your strengths. Have we ever seen that for Vick? Even with present day Andy Reid. Greg Knapp sure as hell didn't do it in Atlanta.

 

[mmg]

I'm sorry but IMO when you Tailor an offense to a player (only rookies in this sense) I feel like you hamper them. Great it works now but what happens when defenses adjust and have film ? Then what? Now he's thrown a whole new learning curve and that's going to cause struggles. I'm all for bring players along but to what extent are you hampering their abilities down the line?

 

[jjs07]

I'm sorry but IMO when you Tailor an offense to a player (only rookies in this sense) I feel like you hamper them. Great it works now but what happens when defenses adjust and have film ? Then what? Now he's thrown a whole new learning curve and that's going to cause struggles. I'm all for bring players along but to what extent are you hampering their abilities down the line?

But here's the thing...and I know he's not a great example, but McNabb said RGIII would fail in DC because Shanahan would not tailor the offense to match his skill-set. Well, obviously that's not the case...but now it's a problem?

RGIII has such a unique skill set, why wouldn't you tailor the offense around him? Would be foolish to do otherwise. The great thing about him is he can beat you both with his legs and his arm. He's proven that he can pass from the pocket and also while on the move.

He's going to have his ups and downs. That's a given. But I'm not worried about him (or the offense) going forward because he's not a dumb player. He'll make the adjustments necessary to do what he has to do to give his team a chance at winning.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

You should always tailor your offense and/or defense to the personnel you have on your team. When coaches don't, it's the main reason why coaches (particularly new coaches) struggle so much.

 

[mmg]

Yea I agree it's working, I just hope it doesn't become an issue down the line, he seems to have the skill set and intelligence to make a change if needed.

Lets see how it pans out in the long run.

 

[jjs07]

RGIII has a bad game - gimmick offense. Told yall the NFL would catch up.

RGIII has a good game - gimmick offense. Only a matter of time before the NFL catches up.

We know he's a rookie. He's going to have his highs and lows. There isn't a chance he'll sustain his current pace - barring a miracle. That being said, the usual suspects here in S&T are just hating to hate, while the national media have been singing his praises since week 1. It's the nature of this forum.

Dude isn't some flash in the pan. There's a reason why both he and Andrew Luck are talked of as having two of the highest ceilings of QBs to enter the NFL in years. Both guys have a long way to go...but the early returns have been amazing. This bodes well for both franchises and give plenty of reason to have optimism going forward

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Well said JJs07...Haters gonna hate...& it's always the usual suspects...Them dudes got a lot of salt in their diet...

 

[fraij da 5 11]

He doesn't even need to maintain his current pace to have a hell of a season.  Hes not going to stay over 70% completion but the fact that he IS over 70% at this point is seriously impressive.

If he ends up at around 67-68% then he'd still be up there with the most accurate QBs currently in the game.

 

[jjs07]

Well said JJs07...Haters gonna hate...& it's always the usual suspects...Them dudes got a lot of salt in their diet...

**** is ******g annoying beyond belief.

He doesn't even need to maintain his current pace to have a hell of a season.  Hes not going to stay over 70% completion but the fact that he IS over 70% at this point is seriously impressive.

If he ends up at around 67-68% then he'd still be up there with the most accurate QBs currently in the game.

Personally, I think it's amazing that he's leading the NFL in completion % as a rookie. 70% is insane. I'd be thrilled with anything over 65%. I forgot which media pundit said it, but he was saying RGIII doesn't waste too many throws.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Let me first say at the risk of sounding prejudice, I always root for minority coaches. Having said that, I feel for Juan Castillo being the scape goat in Philly. It seems like he took that job on behalf of Reid (I could be wrong). Near as I can tell aside from Ron Rivera & the now fired Castillo, there are only 3 other Hispanics on NFL coaching staffs if you count the team doctor on the 9er staff...

 

[Trey Bantz]

^How is he being used as a scapegoat when his defense was as feeble as Tiny Tim in the 4th quarter?

 

[Kimchi Papi]

^How is he being used as a scapegoat when his defense was as feeble as Tiny Tim in the 4th quarter?

Let's not bother taking about Reid because he won't fire himself. But let's look at Marty Mornhinweg. He called not one but two clock killing plays on a drive in the final minutes of last Sunday's game that didn't produce a single first down. His offense over the last 2 years specifically have constantly surrendered field position, gave the ball away, and left points on the field. Mornhinweg continues to put Vick in situations that allow him to make mistakes. To me, that's worse than what Juan was doing. Let's not forget Juan's D held the Steelers to 16 points at Heinz field only to have Vick fumble away the ball twice at the end of the game on Mornhinweg's play calling. Also, either McCoy is playing hurt or Mornhinweg just likes throwing with a QB that constantly turns the ball over because they haven't done a good job running the ball. This could also be due to the line not playing up to par. Not having the starting center & LT doesn't help either...

 

[ag 47]

^How is he being used as a scapegoat when his defense was as feeble as Tiny Tim in the 4th quarter?

Ranked 12th in the league.

 

[illmatic34]

Been saying for years Vick was an over-rated quarterback even in his Atlanta years.

THANK YOU.

I'd take Alex Smith over Vick right now.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Been saying for years Vick was an over-rated quarterback even in his Atlanta years.

THANK YOU.

I'd take Alex Smith over Vick right now.

Vick needed the last several years with the Eagles to pull even with Kyle Boller's career completion %...Prior to the Eagles, he was 7-8 % points behind Boller. That should speak volumes about Vick's quarterbacking ability.