NFL Quarterbacks Discussion thread: 2013 Edition

[651akathepaul]

Yeah...Kind of heard a little of that on Sunday. Nobody wanted him out of HS, so decided to walk-on at PSU. Obviously he's on the team amid complete downfall of Paterno and the University, but he sticks around and Penn St. turns out to be decent despite. Probably part of the reason why coach O'Brien had such high praise.

Still couldn't convince NFL teams to take him except for (forget t team) and then gets dropped and picked up by Oakland. Now he's here and playing well. Moxy. I'm rooting for the kid.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Let's see how he plays on thanksgiving

 

[651akathepaul]

I'm curious to see if anything happens with Kirk Cousins. Skins need picks and a lot of teams need a quarterback. As long as there's a need, people are willing to overspend on Q's despite a potential Matt Flynn scenario.

 

[100027]

Film Room- Football Outsiders on Russell Wilson (suggest reading the whole article w/ photos, but here are some snippets:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2013/film-room-russell-wilson

End:

Poking holes in what Wilson has achieved this season is very difficult. The Seahawks may have a talented roster, but he's not simply supplementing superstars around him. He's not Josh McCown  or Nick Foles  and he's not Colin Kaepernick  or Robert Griffin  III. Wilson is clearly on that elite quarterback level. He may not be residing in the upper class level of the elite with Aaron Rodgers  and Peyton Manning  just yet, but based on this season he is clearly at least on par with Drew Brees  and above Tom Brady.

Even if he's not today, it appears inevitable that Russell Wilson  will someday be the best quarterback in the NFL.

Beginning: 

It is inevitable that Peyton Manning  will be the 2013 NFL MVP. It's almost impossible to come up with a legitimate argument against him. Even before his Denver Broncos face the San Diego Chargers in Week 15, he has 45 touchdown passes and just nine interceptions. That production on a top seed from the AFC and while playing behind a less-than-stellar offensive line means that Manning wins seemingly every possible argument that one could make. Even though there is no doubt who is the MVP, there is still value in recognizing the players who will at least be mentioned in the discussion that takes place before Manning is crowned.

New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees  has rebounded after a disappointing 2012 season. With head coach Sean Payton back on the sidelines and a reborn defense supporting him, Brees has thrown for 33 touchdowns, eight interceptions and over 4,000 yards so far this season. With the Carolina Panthers hoping to make the playoffs and the New England Patriots expecting another division crown, both Cam Newton  and Tom Brady  are being considered by some. It's difficult to argue that either player has outperformed LeSean McCoy, Calvin Johnson, Jamaal Charles  or Josh Gordon, but that is the benefit of being a quarterback in today's NFL.

None of those players appear to be as deserving as the Seattle Seahawks Russell Wilson.

Wilson has thrown for 23 touchdowns and just seven interceptions, with 2,871 passing yards on 330 attempts. Statistically, he doesn't compare to Brees or Manning and playing with Marshawn Lynch  and the best defense in the NFL appears to be working against him. However, Wilson's statistics are very misleading. They don't take into account the cracks that he has covered on the Seahawks offense with his ability to elevate the play of his teammates. No, that is not a reference to his celebrated leadership qualities. It's a reference to what he has consistently done on the field from week-to-week.

For long stretches of this season, the Seahawks offense has been missing key players because of injury. Starting wide receiver Percy Harvin, who was acquired in the offseason to diversify the passing attack, has played just one game all year because of a hip injury.Sidney Rice, the team's second starting wide receiver, entered the season with injury issues before he tore his ACL and was placed on IR after Week 8. Losing Harvin and Rice hurt, but not as much as playing without both starting offensive tackles for an extended period. Starting Left tackle Russell Okung  was placed on short-term IR after tearing a ligament in his toe before Week 3, while starting right tackle Breno Giacomini  missed seven games because of a knee injury suffered against the Jacksonville Jaguars in Week 3.

 

[dland24]

[h1]Ranking the NFL playoff quarterbacks from 1-12[/h1]

By Frank Schwab December 30, 2013 2:11 PM Shutdown Corner

Over the next month or so, we'll be deluged with talk about how this quarterback or that quarterback won or lost a playoff game.

No one player wins or loses an NFL game. It's a team sport. The notion of "quarterback wins" is ridiculous.

However, quarterbacks are the most important players (just not the only ones) for each of the 12 playoff teams and their play will go a long way in determining who wins the Super Bowl. And this postseason's group of 12 starting playoff quarterbacks is loaded with talent.

So, as we head into the playoffs, here are our rankings of the quarterbacks who are still playing:

12. Alex Smith, Chiefs
A pretty easy call. That doesn't mean the Chiefs can't win some playoff games. They have a great supporting cast around Smith. But you'll see as we get into the list that there are some great quarterbacks who will be playing in January. Smith checks in at No. 12 among the group.

11. Andy Dalton, Bengals
Another easy call for this spot, but not because Dalton is that bad. He has 11,363 yards and 80 touchdowns in his first three seasons. That doesn't happen by accident. But he's also inconsistent, shown by his 20 interceptions this season. If Good Andy shows up in January, the Bengals can win the AFC. That's what makes Dalton one of the most important players in the playoffs.

10. Colin Kaepernick, 49ers
Kaepernick had some fine playoff games last season, and he has been at his best against the Packers, San Francisco's first-round opponent. But he was up and down at times this year, though a 310-yard game in the finale against a tough Cardinals defense was a great way to finish the regular season.

9. Andrew Luck, Colts
Now we're starting to see how deep this group of quarterbacks is, considering Luck checks in at No. 9. Luck gets graded down a bit because of his awful supporting cast. It's tough to see him performing at a higher level than the eight quarterbacks ahead of a him with a terrible offensive line and suspect receivers. But there are only a few quarterbacks who can carry a bad team, and he might be one.

8. Nick Foles, Eagles
I'd take Luck over Foles in a second if we were drafting teams from scratch. But, it's hard to slam Foles and his 119.2 rating this season. He plays in a tremendous system headed up by coach Chip Kelly. It's hard to imagine Foles playing at that level throughout the playoffs, but he had a great regular season and can't be discounted.

7. Cam Newton, Panthers
Newton has had a tremendous three-year run to start his career, and now he gets to show off in the playoffs. The Panthers' offense has stalled a bit without Steve Smith the last two weeks. But if you're picking one guy from all 12 playoff teams who can break out and have an amazing playoff run we talk about for years and years, this is the guy. He is capable of greatness.

6. Russell Wilson, Seahawks
If you're worried about Wilson's inexperience, go back and watch the second half of last season's playoff game at Atlanta. He was unbelievable as the Seahawks came back in that game to take a late lead. Wilson, who is in his second season, didn't play great down the stretch this season, and his mediocre receiving targets are a concern, but think back to his great game against the Saints earlier this season. Wilson can play like that three more times in the playoffs.

5. Philip Rivers, Chargers
Rivers had perhaps the best season of his career, and that's saying something. San Diego made the playoffs despite a terrible defense, and a group of skill position players and an offensive line that was largely unproven coming into the season. With an offense that allowed Rivers to get the ball out quicker, he had 4,478 yards and 32 touchdowns.

4. Drew Brees, Saints
The reason he's not in the top three is he won't play a home game in the playoffs. Brees has a 126.3 rating at home this year. He was 84.8 on the road. As great as Brees is, that can't be ignored. Still, it wouldn't surprise anyone if he was closer to that 126.3 mark in January.

3. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
His worth was proven when he was out. The Packers were 6-2 when Rodgers started and finished a game, and 2-5-1 when he didn't. Rodgers wasn't great in his first game back on Sunday, but still threw for 318 yards and two touchdowns, including the game-winning score in the final minute. The NFL might end up cursing the Lions and Bears for not eliminating the Packers before Rodgers could come back from a broken collarbone.

2. Tom Brady, Patriots
Brady caught fire after a slow start to the season, although a lot of that came with Rob Gronkowski in the lineup. Gronkowski is out for the season, and Brady had just 294 yards combined the last two weeks (although the first game was a blowout win and the second game was in a rainstorm). Brady's track record is remarkable and it's impossible to bet against him having a postseason for the ages.

1. Peyton Manning, Broncos
Manning will deal with the criticism of his playoff failures until he wins another Super Bowl, and maybe another title wouldn't even stop it. But the fact is that Manning just completed the greatest regular season in NFL history. That doesn't mean the Broncos are going to win a Super Bowl, just like Smith being 12th on the list doesn't eliminate the Chiefs. Manning's teammates will have to play well too. But given how dominant Manning has been this season, not putting him first would be foolish.

Thoughts?

 

[champcruthik]

Luck and Kaep should be higher. I would have Luck 5th or 6th.

 

[CP1708]

First thought took me 4 seconds

What the ****?

Why do we insert Foles at 8, obviously for his play this year and not legacy, yet Brady-Rodgers 2-3? Rodgers missed half the ****** year.


I of course know that the main 4 are the main 4 due to their history, and that's fine, but then why elevate other guys after a great 10 game stretch?


And Kap at 10th? This year, or last year?


Same with Rivers. Rivers was DEAD last year to these QB guys, now he's right back at 5th? That didn't take long.


If you want it to be about this year, and this year only, then Rodgers has to drop, because he simply didn't play enough. If you want it to be an overall thing, then Kap and Foles and Rivers can't be so high, so fast.
Not sure which is the right or wrong way to view it, but mixing the two isn't the way to go imo.

 

[DeadsetAce]

dalton needs to be last on that list

 

[CP1708]

Your post speaks of stats, lost OT's and 2 receivers bein out. One of which he didn't have last year either. (Percy)

Yet, what he has had, the entire time, his an ELITE defense + Marshawn Lynch.

Which is, again, more than Luck has ever had, at all, his 2 years.

If you swapped them, you contend that Russ carries all these misfits to 11 wins and a 38-10 comeback playoff win? You're positive of that?

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Doesn't eem quote into the thread, just responds to a phantom post from somewhere else like its in here. 

 

[DeadsetAce]

Doesn't eem quote into the thread, just responds to a phantom post from somewhere else like its in here. 

i'm sayin'


lazy ***, CP

 

[CP1708]

It's on the last page, from a month ago.

 

[DeadsetAce]

dalton needs to be last on that list

i told y'all so, btw

 

[100027]

Your post speaks of stats, lost OT's and 2 receivers bein out. One of which he didn't have last year either. (Percy)

Yet, what he has had, the entire time, his an ELITE defense + Marshawn Lynch.

Which is, again, more than Luck has ever had, at all, his 2 years.

If you swapped them, you contend that Russ carries all these misfits to 11 wins and a 38-10 comeback playoff win? You're positive of that?

I don't really agree with your terms for determining what makes a QB better. In my opinion the quality of a defense is not relevant at all to how good a QB is. I don't see the connection. Great QBs like Rodgers, Peyton and Brees have thrived with bad defenses. Obviously there are plenty of great defenses with terrible QBs.

It might make sense if we were comparing Wilson and Luck's win totals.... But we are not. We are comparing their statistics and their play on the offensive side of the ball. And Wilson's so far have been better.

 

[651akathepaul]

 

[CP1708]

Uh, no, I'm not comparing Luck's stats.

Andy Dalton had what, 33 TD's, Brady had 24? So, Dalton better?

Cam doesn't have crazy stats, but tough to find many QB's more valuable.

Matt Stafford got stats for days, do we really need to explain........?

 

[CP1708]

Stats huh?

Soooooo, Nick Foles >>>>>> Russell Wilson, agreed?

 

[100027]

Uh, no, I'm not comparing Luck's stats.

Andy Dalton had what, 33 TD's, Brady had 24? So, Dalton better?

Cam doesn't have crazy stats, but tough to find many QB's more valuable.

Matt Stafford got stats for days, do we really need to explain........?

It's like we're comparing two pitchers. I'm pointing out my guy has a lower ERA in addition to his wins (meaningless stat). You're saying "No, but your guy had better hitting."

 

[DeadsetAce]

Your post speaks of stats, lost OT's and 2 receivers bein out. One of which he didn't have last year either. (Percy)

Yet, what he has had, the entire time, his an ELITE defense + Marshawn Lynch.

Which is, again, more than Luck has ever had, at all, his 2 years.

If you swapped them, you contend that Russ carries all these misfits to 11 wins and a 38-10 comeback playoff win? You're positive of that?

I don't really agree with your terms for determining what makes a QB better. In my opinion the quality of a defense is not relevant at all to how good a QB is. I don't see the connection. Great QBs like Rodgers, Peyton and Brees have thrived with bad defenses. Obviously there are plenty of great defenses with terrible QBs.

It might make sense if we were comparing Wilson and Luck's win totals.... But we are not. We are comparing their statistics and their play on the offensive side of the ball. And Wilson's so far have been better.

there is a connection though. one player can be balanced, set up the play action, be methodical. the other is forced to go into shootout mode habitually, become one dimensional, and throw into coverages that KNOW he is passing the ball.

same with having the RB. one faces defenses that are forced to stay honest. the other faces defenses (as we'll see Saturday night) that are going to 99.9% sell out against the pass.

 

[100027]

Whatever man, I'm out. You got your framework for evaluating QBs: 1. Draft position, 2. Strength of his defense.

..and I got mine.

 

[madj55]

I don't really agree with your terms for determining what makes a QB better. In my opinion the quality of a defense is not relevant at all to how good a QB is. I don't see the connection. Great QBs like Rodgers, Peyton and Brees have thrived with bad defenses. Obviously there are plenty of great defenses with terrible QBs.

It might make sense if we were comparing Wilson and Luck's win totals.... But we are not. We are comparing their statistics and their play on the offensive side of the ball. And Wilson's so far have been better.

All the turnovers Seattle generates give Russell a better chance to shine and they usually put him in great field position. Meanwhile, Luck sits on the sideline just waiting for the Colts D to give up a score and take the ball from the 20.

 

[100027]

there is a connection though. one player can be balanced, set up the play action, be methodical. the other is forced to go into shootout mode habitually, become one dimensional, and throw into coverages that KNOW he is passing the ball.

same with having the RB. one faces defenses that are forced to stay honest. the other faces defenses (as we'll see Saturday night) that are going to 99.9% sell out against the pass.

Maybe, but if you look at the QBs I mentioned who have played with poor defenses, gunslingers often end up with inflated stats because of the freedom they're allowed in the offense. Brees, Rodgers, Peyton's years with some bad defenses would belie that idea.

A team that's always coming from behind like Luck's Colts puts him in a position to put up big stats on a game by game basis.

 

[DeadsetAce]

there is a connection though. one player can be balanced, set up the play action, be methodical. the other is forced to go into shootout mode habitually, become one dimensional, and throw into coverages that KNOW he is passing the ball.

same with having the RB. one faces defenses that are forced to stay honest. the other faces defenses (as we'll see Saturday night) that are going to 99.9% sell out against the pass.

Maybe, but if you look at the QBs I mentioned who have played with poor defenses, gunslingers often end up with inflated stats because of the freedom they're allowed in the offense. Brees, Rodgers, Peyton's years with some bad defenses would belie that idea.

true...but look at the talent they're throwing the ball to.

and you're also talking about elite level QBs...a level which neither luck or RW are at yet.

 

[certifiedsw]

So Russell gets a knock down over Luck because of the defense and Lynch? Oh okay. If you actually watched any Seattle games (which I can clearly tell you didn't) then it would be obvious to you that Wilson himself has made Lynch what he is today and what this team is today. Last year before entering Chicago they were 6-5 and looming on the edge of mediocrity once again. Bevell then decides to cut the reigns loose on Wilson and what do you know the team starts to fire on all cylinders and they're suddenly one of the best teams in football. Coincidence? I think not.