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Sad story. But I mean his father should feel bad, I mean it's pretty much completely his fault. He was the aggressor, and if anyone saw their father fighting their obviously gonna help. Life's too short.
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Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?
If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.
The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.
Link
Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?
If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.
The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.
Link
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?
If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.
From the NY Daily News:
The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?
If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.
From the NY Daily News:
The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.
Then the father noticed a $200 bottle of cologne he had bought as a graduation present had disappeared from the car. He swung back to the lot, which had a sign affixed to the gate.
"Surveillance
Camera de Vigilancia
Video y Audio"
Several cameras were affixed atop a hut just inside the gate. Beside the hut was a shovel. Video from atop the hut is said to show the father grabbing it.
What the father should have done, what anybody should do when they suspect somebody has stolen from them, is call 911. The responding cops would almost certainly have done what they could to solve the mystery of the missing graduation present, whatever the father's past with the law.
Instead, the father hit one attendant with the shovel, injuring his arm. Both attendants ran to the shed and locked the door.
At this point, the son responded as if the father were a quarterback calling a play. The son is said to have forced his way through the hut's door with the same speed and power that might have taken him to the NFL.
The son may have been following his father's example or he may have imagined he was defending Dad. Police say he began to pummel the attendants.
One of them stabbed the son with a shiv fashioned from sharpened steel and duct tape. The son died in his graduation suit.
After viewing the video and questioning all involved, police seemed ready to believe the attendants acted in self defense. The father was charged with assault.
The next time you seek to settle matters on your own when you should call 911, think of the father arraigned in Bronx Criminal Court while the mother sits sobbing, visibly pregnant with the twins her son promised to make part of his golden future.
Think of the blood seeping across the graduation suit of the kid who seemed to have made his own luck.
Link
Then the father noticed a $200 bottle of cologne he had bought as a graduation present had disappeared from the car. He swung back to the lot, which had a sign affixed to the gate.
"Surveillance
Camera de Vigilancia
Video y Audio"
Several cameras were affixed atop a hut just inside the gate. Beside the hut was a shovel. Video from atop the hut is said to show the father grabbing it.
What the father should have done, what anybody should do when they suspect somebody has stolen from them, is call 911. The responding cops would almost certainly have done what they could to solve the mystery of the missing graduation present, whatever the father's past with the law.
Instead, the father hit one attendant with the shovel, injuring his arm. Both attendants ran to the shed and locked the door.
At this point, the son responded as if the father were a quarterback calling a play. The son is said to have forced his way through the hut's door with the same speed and power that might have taken him to the NFL.
The son may have been following his father's example or he may have imagined he was defending Dad. Police say he began to pummel the attendants.
One of them stabbed the son with a shiv fashioned from sharpened steel and duct tape. The son died in his graduation suit.
After viewing the video and questioning all involved, police seemed ready to believe the attendants acted in self defense. The father was charged with assault.
The next time you seek to settle matters on your own when you should call 911, think of the father arraigned in Bronx Criminal Court while the mother sits sobbing, visibly pregnant with the twins her son promised to make part of his golden future.
Think of the blood seeping across the graduation suit of the kid who seemed to have made his own luck.
Link
So, this young man was not as innocent in the fight as a lot of you are claiming.Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?
If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.
From the NY Daily News:
The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.
Link
So, this young man was not as innocent in the fight as a lot of you are claiming.Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Originally Posted by SIZE TENS
The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?
If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.
From the NY Daily News:
The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.
Link
thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?
What?
thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?
What?
I was beyond a fist fight.Originally Posted by DT43
thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?
What?
i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.
I was beyond a fist fight.Originally Posted by DT43
thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?
What?
i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.
From what I gather, the fight went like this:Originally Posted by DT43
thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?
What?
i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.
From what I gather, the fight went like this:Originally Posted by DT43
thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?
What?
i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.