NYK '14 offseason thread

[ballinsam23]

As much as I like Thad Young lets not kill our 2015 salary cap for him.

 

[donewithjs]

 
17.9 on a tanking team? Does that count? Somebody had to score 

true true

 

[the gr8est]

 
IIRC he does have ADHD. I was also told his father was really overbearing and yelled a lot, but I don't know what that's like now. He also had that escort fiasco here while playing the Knicks. Usually, players that come home to play don't have the outcome they expect. I would not want him to come here.

Yall should read the parts in Phil Jackson's book where he speaks about how he handled Dennis Rodman and really turned around his career when he was considered a cancer at the time who was on his way out of the NBA because of his antics.

I have a very optimistic feeling about JR Smith next year under Phil's guidance/tactics.

 

[njavier03]

id rather have stat start at pf than thad. at this rate were gonna look like the suns when diaw was their starting center, unless we sign a big man.

 

[beh235]

 

 
IIRC he does have ADHD. I was also told his father was really overbearing and yelled a lot, but I don't know what that's like now. He also had that escort fiasco here while playing the Knicks. Usually, players that come home to play don't have the outcome they expect. I would not want him to come here.

Yall should read the parts in Phil Jackson's book where he speaks about how he handled Dennis Rodman and really turned around his career when he was considered a cancer at the time who was on his way out of the NBA because of his antics.

I have a very optimistic feeling about JR Smith next year under Phil's guidance/tactics.

Once again, Stephenson =/= Rodman. By the time Rodman got to that Bulls team, he already knew what it took to win a championship and had won back to back. He had a concept of what it took. Lance, at this point, does not. Rodman also wasn't off the rails in Detroit. All realities ignored if it were to happen, I don't know if Phil would want to be that hands on now that he's not coaching. On another note, Earl gonna Earl. Gotta accept that 

.

 

[hsalem]

I don't want JRich,

I'm meh about Thad, I like him a lot as a player but not on our squad.

**** of here with lance talk.

 

[donewithjs]

Just A reminder for all you Shump lovers on how good he is 

[table][tr][td]SEASON[/td][td]TEAM[/td][td]GP[/td][td]GS[/td][td]MIN[/td][td]FGM-A[/td][td]FG%[/td][td]3PM-A[/td][td]3P%[/td][td]FTM-A[/td][td]FT%[/td][td]OR[/td][td]DR[/td][td]REB[/td][td]AST[/td][td]BLK[/td][td]STL[/td][td]PF[/td][td]TO[/td][td]PTS[/td][/tr][tr][td]'11-'12[/td][td]

•  
• NY

[/td][td]59[/td][td]35[/td][td]28.9[/td][td]3.6-9.1[/td][td].401[/td][td]0.8-2.7[/td][td].306[/td][td]1.5-1.8[/td][td].798[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]2.4[/td][td]3.2[/td][td]2.8[/td][td]0.1[/td][td]1.7[/td][td]2.9[/td][td]1.9[/td][td]9.5[/td][/tr][tr][td]'12-'13[/td][td]

•  
• NY

[/td][td]45[/td][td]45[/td][td]22.1[/td][td]2.4-6.1[/td][td].396[/td][td]1.1-2.8[/td][td].402[/td][td]0.8-1.0[/td][td].766[/td][td]0.7[/td][td]2.3[/td][td]3.0[/td][td]1.7[/td][td]0.2[/td][td]1.0[/td][td]2.2[/td][td]0.8[/td][td]6.8[/td][/tr][tr][td]'13-'14[/td][td]

•  
• NY

[/td][td]74[/td][td]58[/td][td]26.5[/td][td]2.5-6.5[/td][td].378[/td][td]1.0-3.1[/td][td].333[/td][td]0.7-1.0[/td][td].746[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]3.1[/td][td]4.2[/td][td]1.7[/td][td]0.2[/td][td]1.2[/td][td]2.8[/td][td]1.1[/td][td]6.7[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[Undefined]

Man I got faith in shump.

 

[Hahahaha]

I watched just about every NBA game Shump has played. I watched him deal with a coach that hated him and benched him for no reason. Shump's game regressed due to Woodson. This kid can and will be much better.

 

[the gr8est]

 
Once again, Stephenson =/= Rodman. By the time Rodman got to that Bulls team, he already knew what it took to win a championship and had won back to back. He had a concept of what it took. Lance, at this point, does not. Rodman also wasn't off the rails in Detroit. All realities ignored if it were to happen, I don't know if Phil would want to be that hands on now that he's not coaching. On another note, Earl gonna Earl. Gotta accept that 

.

I mean I wasnt really talking about Lance because I dont think there is any realistic chance he comes to the Knicks, I was more talking about JR, but Rodman was honestly just as bad if not worse than both of those players after leaving Detroit. For how good Dennis was on the Pistons he was equally as bad in San Antonio in terms of being an off the court/locker room cancer. He consistently got in the way with their efforts to win a title.

People feared that Dennis was almost on his way out of the league when the Bulls signed him in 1996. Yes, he was great player on the Bad Boys Pistons in the late 80s, but it was not until after he left Detroit and Chuck Daly when he started to really spiral out of control. Thats when his partying ways really started to come out and get out of control, his personal issues got so bad in the early 1990s, he even had a suicide attempt in 1993.

Guys like JR and Lance have been known to be bad with that **** thus far in their NBA careers, but I honestly dont think that either of them were close to as bad as Dennis was in his apex of off the court shenanigans. Rodman used to go way out of his way to break the rules and **** with his teammates and coaches. People love to get on JR for partying in NYC too much, Rodman used to take chartered jets to Las Vegas when the Bulls played the Jazz in the finals because Salt Lake City was too boring for him.

I get it that Rodman was an NBA champion and a hall of fame talent, but lets not forget what he was like and act like his off the court **** was any different or better than JR Smith's. JR seems to be much more harmless than Dennis was and Phil Jackson really turned around Dennis' career for the better.

Like I suspect of JR and Lance, Dennis suffered from ADHD and Phil gave him the space necessary to excel as basketball player, and treated him like an adult rather than most other coaches Dennis had post Chuck Daly who watched over him like a hawk.

The disciplinarian ways do not work for those guys, nor does being a push over like I think Woody was alot for JR. Dennis used to go out of his way to try and bend and break the rules when coaches treated him like a child. Phil Jackson treats his players like the adults they are and gives them the kind of space that is necessary. In his book, Phil compares his leadership tactics (especially with difficult personalities like Dennis) to a Zen philosophy comparing the human mind to a cow in a pasture...

"If you enclose the cow in a small yard, it will become nervous and frustrated and start eating the neighbor's grass. But if you give it a large pasture to roam around in, it will be more content and less likely to break loose... If you place too many restrictions on players, they'll spend an inordinate amount of time trying to buck the system. Like all of us, they need a certain degree of structure in their lives, but they also require enough latitude to express themselves creatively. Otherwise they'll start behaving like that penned-in cow."

He goes on to talk about his tactics, which he picked up from Zen teacher Shunryo Suzuki:

"The best way to control people, he adds, is to give them alot of room and encourage them to be mischiveous, then watch them. 'To ignore them is not good; that is the worst policy,' he writes. 'The second worst is trying to control them. The best one is to watch them, just to watch them, without trying to control them.' This piece of advice came in handy later when I was dealing with Dennis Rodman."

From reading his book I was able to see how well he was able to handle Dennis' personality and I definitely saw alot of parallels between 1996 Dennis and present day JR. If he was able to turn around Dennis Rodman's career the way it was heading in 1996, I am definitely cautiously optimistic about how he will relate to JR Smith.

 

[onewearz]

dam, shump could rap tho ...

 

[clyde the glide]

i see what you're saying but lets not compare dennis to jr.  one of them grew up watching his mom get beat while the other was shooting jumpers with his pops.  i also think you're forgetting that phil isn't the coach.  yea he will have some influence but i don't see how he's gonna truly fix some of the mistakes our players make (including melo) without being there to do it in games consistently.  im optimistic but we really don't know how good a coach fisher will be yet.

 

[njavier03]

regardless, shump and jr cant be any worse than they were last season. shump has a contract to play for and phil will trade jr to Milwaukee if wants to keep partying

 

[clyde the glide]

true and jr was actually pretty damn good the last two months

 

[beh235]

@THE GR8EST

I see what you're saying but Rodman stated that his family problems were the reason why he turned to alcohol abuse those two years in San Antonio. Namely, him not being able to see his daughter. I distinctly remember him saying this. He just spun way out of control. As far as him getting in their way of winning a title...I think that's a bit of a stretch. Yes Dennis, was bad, but his ability to rebound made him worth the headache. If you were to compare "problem players" give me Rodman all day, While he was crazy, he had discipline and was GREAT in his skill, which is more than JR and Lance can say. Not sure how JR would react, I just read him as less disciplined.

 

[Hahahaha]

Earl was solid for the second half of the season. I don't have any complaints about my man Earl. I expect a great year from him too.

 

[nydunkhead]

I watched just about every NBA game Shump has played. I watched him deal with a coach that hated him and benched him for no reason. Shump's game regressed due to Woodson. This kid can and will be much better.

I agree SN hurt his development....

 

[nick.]

Once JR got 100% healthy he started to play like the '12-'13 JR. You could tell he was hesitant about driving to the basket and making cuts coming off of knee surgery.

As far as Shump goes I'm expecting a solid season from him, Something like 14/5/2. He could never find consistency in Sn's "system" which hindered his growth. I believe in Fisher to get Shump to play to his potential.

 

[Master Zik]

Look at yall in here still doubting Phil's plan.

If he wants to move Shump and STAT now then so it shall be.

Oh yeah, **** Lance Stephenson. I don't want him anywhere near this team. Crazy how yall can be so down on some players and then be ******edly optimistic about an obvious risk. Remind me of when dudes was talking that Greg Oden nonsense.

 

[Air Pope]

Look at yall in here still doubting Phil's plan.

If he wants to move Shump and STAT now then so it shall be.

Oh yeah, **** Lance Stephenson. I don't want him anywhere near this team. Crazy how yall can be so down on some players and then be ******edly optimistic about an obvious risk. Remind me of when dudes was talking that Greg Oden nonsense.

Basically. I feel like if Phil is making this move, there's more to it. & I thought we've established many times that Lance shouldn't be brought up in the Knicks thread

 

[Air Pope]

& I feel like there are too many passes being given out in this thread to players who should be earning their money.

 

[the gr8est]

clyde the glide beh235 you both bring up very good points and I very much agree. JR and Rodman's issues are very different as a whole.

Rodman definitely had a rougher upbringing than JR and was the more significant talent as well. I was just trying to make a point that both players had similar off the court antics that often got i the way of winning, and Phil was great for Dennis.

While I agree that JR is no Rodman I still think Phil and Fisher will adopt a no nonsense strategy with JR where they will give him his freedom but at the same time hold him accountable for his actions like Phil did with Rodman. I think they will allow JR to be JR, and they wont get on him for every little thing he does, but they wont give him a pass either as long as his antics dont get in the way with the ultimate team goal. I was over JR this season but I now find myself optimistic that they will get the most out of JR. Imo if anyone can do it, Phil can. I know Phil isnt coaching but I still have confidence in him and Fisher as well.

I also think that the low expectations placed on certain players and this team as a whole will greatly benefit this team as a whole next season.

Imo beyond everything, JR is still a good fit on this team. He has optimal size for a 2 guard, was one of the best spot up shooters from 3 in the league this season, is an underrated passer and has good ability to take it to the hole when he is put in position against the defense to do so (which the triangle will set him up to do).

 

[beh235]

@clyde the glide @beh235 you both bring up very good points and I very much agree. JR and Rodman's issues are very different as a whole.

Rodman definitely had a rougher upbringing than JR and was the more significant talent as well. I was just trying to make a point that both players had similar off the court antics that often got i the way of winning, and Phil was great for Dennis.

While I agree that JR is no Rodman I still think Phil and Fisher will adopt a no nonsense strategy with JR where they will give him his freedom but at the same time hold him accountable for his actions like Phil did with Rodman. I think they will allow JR to be JR, and they wont get on him for every little thing he does, but they wont give him a pass either as long as his antics dont get in the way with the ultimate team goal. I was over JR this season but I now find myself optimistic that they will get the most out of JR. Imo if anyone can do it, Phil can. I know Phil isnt coaching but I still have confidence in him and Fisher as well.

I also think that the low expectations placed on certain players and this team as a whole will greatly benefit this team as a whole next season.

Imo beyond everything, JR is still a good fit on this team. He has optimal size for a 2 guard, was one of the best spot up shooters from 3 in the league this season, is an underrated passer and has good ability to take it to the hole when he is put in position against the defense to do so (which the triangle will set him up to do).

One can only hope they hold his feet to the fire and he shapes up. Time will tell.

 

[clyde the glide]

yea i mean once he started playing well we were actually sorta a decent team.  hopefully he can continue where he left off last season.

btw its good to have u back man

 

[d3si]

Just checked out the theknicksblog. Phil Jackson is doing work now. He's trying to deal Bargnani and Amare ASAP. It seems Shumpert isn't in his plan for future. He is trying to deal Bargnani without involving THJr in the deal. It looks like Phil wants Melo back.