NYK '14 offseason thread

[capo1119]

As long as y'all can deal with THJr's ups and downs as a rookie and not go back and forth between "He's awesome, he should start" and "He's terrible, another wasted draft pick", then he should definitely start

Its NYC, the worst and the best fans are here lol. Wait until Bargs has a bad game...

 

[Hahahaha]

THJR is nowhere near ready to start. A lot to learn and he's had some bad games. I like what I see, good game by him last night.



Sons, last night hurt me deeply. I can't take this **** anymore. Very disgusted with that call and it's disgusting how Harden goes to the line for a player breathing on him. I don't want to hear Carmelo initiates contact. Carmelo is getting hit under the basket and not a ******g call. Carmelo gets swiped and gets a call that alters the game. **** Harden and that ref.

 

[100027]

Insider on Melo:
[h3]Eastern Conference executive No. 1[/h3]
In short:  This particular executive says Anthony picked up some bad habits while he was in Denver. Is he a winner? Sure, but is he Batman or Robin?

"I like Melo. I like that he competes. He obviously can score at a high level. People forget that when he got drafted by Denver, the Nuggets had won 17 games the year before. And he immediately turned them into a playoff team and took them to the playoffs every year he was there. He took a 17-win team and led them to 43 wins. So he can win and make a team better. I think his problem is that he went to Denver, which was a dysfunctional franchise at that time, so he picked up some bad habits and didn't learn what it takes to really win in this league. If he had gone to a better organization with a truly professional environment coming out of the gate, he would have learned and been more professional. He won big in college (leading Syracuse to the National Championship in 2003). He won big in high school at Oak Hill. He's been a winner all his life.

Jim McIsaac/Getty ImagesAnthony scores because he has no qualms about taking his  shot.

"But early on in Denver, he probably saw some bad habits and was allowed to get away with his bad habits -- like if he was five or 10 minutes late for a shootaround, or if he missed a team event somewhere. As a leader, you can't do that because you have to be able to get on guys when they do those things. He probably never learned that. And after leading a team from 17 wins to 43 wins, he probably thought winning in the NBA was a little easier than it really is, and he never was made to understand what it takes to get to the next level. He didn't learn the little things, the finer points of playing defensively - understanding that you have to make consecutive plays on defense if you really want to get it done. Things like that. So now, 10 years into the league, he's probably Robin on a championship team instead of Batman. He has Batman talent, but the intangibles are missing. And I think part of that is because of what he was introduced to when he came into the league with Denver…

"As far as next summer, if I were him, I'd stay in New York and hope I can attract some more help. I think he has to put his feet in the concrete now and look at himself in the mirror. He knows where he's coming up short. I believe he's smart enough to recognize that. If Kobe Bryantwas younger, it'd be great for Melo to go play with him in L.A. because Kobe could get him to do the things he doesn't want to do right now. He'd have to listen to Kobe. But Kobe's older now and doesn't have enough left to help Melo win it. Overall, all these people talking crazy about Carmelo, saying he's not a winner -- ask them if they would take him on their team. You wouldn't get many people saying 'No.'"

---

[h3]Eastern Conference executive No. 2[/h3]
In short:  There's no denying Carmelo Anthony is a selfish player. The possessions and statistical inefficiency bear that out. And this executive agrees.

"He's a great player, but he's also a selfish player. That's just how he is. I don't think he'll look at himself in the mirror and say, 'What am I not doing? What am I doing that's keeping us from winning?' Again, I'm not saying he's not a great player. He's a phenomenal player. He's just selfish. He likes the glamour and the big time. Why else would he have left Denver for New York? That Denver team he was on was better than New York. But he wanted the show and the glamour. It wasn't about winning…

"
All the talk about where he'll go next year -- if he goes somewhere else, that puts more pressure on him to win. It's going to follow him. I don't know if he'll have the guts to leave. If he leaves, he better win wherever he goes.
"-- Eastern Conference team executive

"For him to win, he has to have the right team around him. But finding the right team for him is very hard. You really have to get five Tyson Chandlers -- guys that play like Chandler but play at the other four positions. You need guys who will cater to Melo, guys who don't need the ball, guys who don't care about shooting a lot, guys that can make spot-up jump shots. Those are the type of guys Melo needs because he's not looking to be a team player. He's going to be a gunner and just shoot. If you have those type of guys around him, maybe he can win it. But the way I see it, he might end up being 33 years old after he matures a little bit and on a team with a guy or two who's better than him, and then he'll win it…

"All the talk about where he'll go next year -- if he goes somewhere else, that puts more pressure on him to win. It's going to follow him. I don't know if he'll have the guts to leave. If he leaves, he better win wherever he goes. If he stays, he can get the most money from New York and then at some point, demand a trade if he has to.''

---

[h3]Western Conference executive No. 1[/h3]
In short:  Anthony can score, but can he win? This executive says Melo needs help.

"I actually think that, for whatever reason, Melo's always gotten a pass. At the end of the day, he's been in the league long enough where, if he was really a winner and about winning, he'd have figured it out by now. He's had enough time to do that now. He should be able to say, 'Ok, this is not working. I've got to figure it out. I've got to take it upon myself as a superstar to try something else. Try to be a facilitator, make plays for other guys, or like Kobe and LeBron, get some stops. Every team I'm on is bad defensively, let me make more of a commitment defensively.' If he was really about winning, there's more he could do…

"Is he overrated? As a scorer, he's not overrated. He's a professional scorer. And as a winner -- that's what it's all about, right? -- he's not rated highly. I mean, this is his 11th season. It's time to win something. He went to the conference finals one time when Chauncey Billups  was still good and they had some pieces around them. As a guy without some pieces around him, Melo doesn't get it done because he doesn't make anybody else better. He's going to play the way he plays, but the team's not going to have much success. I don't know if he can be the best player on a championship team. Yeah, he might lead the league in scoring but he's also up there in points allowed. If you're getting points on one end, you can't be giving up just as many on the other end. To win, Melo needs a team full of defenders -- dirty, grimy, tough guys. He needs a veteran point guard like Billups who can tell him what he needs to do and has the authority to back it up. He needs some shooters, too, because he's not going to change his game.''

---

[h3]Western Conference executive No. 2[/h3]
In short:  This executive offers a past player comparable to Anthony. But Stephon Marburyprobably isn't the guy you want to be compared to.

"I love him as a player. I just don't think he's your alpha male. He can't be your No. 1 guy. He's kind of like Clyde Drexler. As the alpha male in Portland, Clyde never got over the top. But when he went to Houston and was the No. 2 guy to Hakeem Olajuwon, he won. Melo's too much about himself to be the No. 1 guy. He's not malicious in his approach or anything. He's just not about winning. He's about getting his, and doing it his way. I would love to have him as a second guy. But as your alpha male? He's not going to win anything like that. He's kind of like the 2013 version of Stephon Marbury. He's not as bad as Stephon, but he's got Steph tendencies.''

---

While they acknowledge his elite skills, these are some harsh words for Anthony. With him, there's no question that he can score and is a great player on his own. But as a team player, it looks like there remains plenty of questions.

 

[squatchnt]

When Bargs has a bad game he will get bashed like he has been since getting signed. I as a Knick fan I appreciate his play since TC went down, but by no means do I think he is, or will be, that dude. As one of THjr supporters let me clarify that my support in no way shape or form is suggesting that he should be a starter. His ability to get off a quality shot and score earns him some minutes but dat about it...

 

[do work son]

look man, those calls are judgement calls. if you want to go by the letter of the law, i don't think he began his motion to shoot until after he was fouled twice.

 

[losalmighty]

look man, those calls are judgement calls. if you want to go by the letter of the law, i don't think he began his motion to shoot until after he was fouled twice.

take him off the fan list. Now.

 

[proshares]

He's a Rocket fan though

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Are you guys really complaining about that call? There is no conspiracy against the Knicks, Harden clearly hacked him twice on the floor, you guys play into the whole woe is me Knicks **** by really trying to make that an issue.

The reason we lost is cause once again our Defense is putrid. As soon as we would pull close all game, they would preceed to go on a scoring binge and put themselves back up by 8. Rotations are just a mess all over the place, just horrible team d.

 

[do work son]

He's a Rocket fan though

 

[7thave btn 31stn33rd st]

look man, those calls are judgement calls. if you want to go by the letter of the law, i don't think he began his motion to shoot until after he was fouled twice.

Judgement call? That play is the epitome of Continuation, the problem is the ref anticipated the contact to being tipped off that they planned to intentionally foul. There wasnt a judgement, he knew he was going to call a foul even before the ball was inbounded.

Harden clearly hacked him twice on the floor, you guys play into the whole woe is me Knicks **** by really trying to make that an issue.

He was able to continue the shot after the foul was called, read the rule on continuation. JR was granted a continuation earlier in the 4Q that probably shouldnt have been granted.

 

[maxelite]

There are some good points in those quotes from anonymous Execs but cmon, now he's not about winning?

 

[rillo561]

I've said before and I'll say it again, melo playing with AI all those years in Denver ruined him. I know I'll get flamed for it but it's true. There's a reason why guys like this don't "win".

 

[Hahahaha]

JR shooting 4-16 :x

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Judgement call? That play is the epitome of Continuation, the problem is the ref anticipated the contact to being tipped off that they planned to intentionally foul. There wasnt a judgement, he knew he was going to call a foul even before the ball was inbounded.
He was able to continue the shot after the foul was called, read the rule on continuation. JR was granted a continuation earlier in the 4Q that probably shouldnt have been granted.

Stop it, no one in the world aside from delusional Knicks fans think that was a shooting foul. He was swiped twice before he put it up and he bobbled it. It's just not even close.

 

[7thave btn 31stn33rd st]

Not getting the Marbury comparison at all.

 

[do work son]

look man, those calls are judgement calls. if you want to go by the letter of the law, i don't think he began his motion to shoot until after he was fouled twice.

Judgement call? That play is the epitome of Continuation, the problem is the ref anticipated the contact to being tipped off that they planned to intentionally foul. There wasnt a judgement, he knew he was going to call a foul even before the ball was inbounded.

Harden clearly hacked him twice on the floor, you guys play into the whole woe is me Knicks **** by really trying to make that an issue.

He was able to continue the shot after the foul was called, read the rule on continuation. JR was granted a continuation earlier in the 4Q that probably shouldnt have been granted.

no, he was able to BEGIN the shot after the foul was called. his back was to the basket as the fouls were occurring.

 

[mez 0ne]

Didn't get to watch the end of the game, had to watch the replay just now.

Harden was fouling Melo before the shot even went up, but the whistle was not blown. Melo goes up for the shot while the whistle is blown, how is that not a continuation? Don't you go by when the whistle is blown.

 

[7thave btn 31stn33rd st]

Didn't get to watch the end of the game, had to watch the replay just now.

Harden was fouling Melo before the shot even went up, but the whistle was not blown. Melo goes up for the shot while the whistle is blown, how is that not a continuation? Don't you go by when the whistle is blown.

Youre just a delusional Knicks fan, stop it.

 

[maxelite]

Really it all starts and ends on the Defensive side for Melo. The whole notion of him becoming more of a facilitator is asking him to do something he's never had experience doing.



It's the lack of defensive effort from him and the whole team that's pretty much going to be their demise especially with Tyson out



Srsly Bargnani was the Best Defender last night???? That's says alot about this team.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

No you don't go by when the whistle is blown cause when things are happening in a split second it takes time to call something.

Every tight loss we suffer, people in here year after year crying about calls. It's a loser mentality. We are 3-6 and can't play a lick of D. The refs nor that call have anything to do with our lack of success right now.

 

[losalmighty]

He's a Rocket fan though

add him, THEN remove him. thanks.

 

[losalmighty]

No you don't go by when the whistle is blown cause when things are happening in a split second it takes time to call something.

Every tight loss we suffer, people in here year after year crying about calls. It's a loser mentality. We are 3-6 and can't play a lick of D. The refs nor that call have anything to do with our lack of success right now.

AMP is right. racism is why we are 3-6. the man doesn't like orange.

 

[7thave btn 31stn33rd st]

Criticizing the refs is a "loser mentality"? I'm not blaming the refs for the loss. Is our Defense stout? Not by any means, but Harden can drop 36 points on any team in the league, and we also forced 18 turnovers, so it wasnt like our Defense was horrific as you make it seem. We forced HOU to take bad shots late in the Shot Clock, but they just happened to make bad shots. HOU shot the ball poorly, but that doesnt show on the Box Score because they took 44FTs. If anything, our bench didnt show up last night more so than a lack defense.

 

[mez 0ne]

No you don't go by when the whistle is blown cause when things are happening in a split second it takes time to call something.

lol wut?

Refs are on top of a play like that with the game on the line, takes time?

Refs sometimes don't blow the whistle because they can perceive Harden's first "foul" as a missed swipe. I've always seen people have to foul player repeatedly to get the whistle blown at times esp at the end of the game. I've seen far worse continuations.

 

[don ramon]

Judgement call? That play is the epitome of Continuation, the problem is the ref anticipated the contact to being tipped off that they planned to intentionally foul. There wasnt a judgement, he knew he was going to call a foul even before the ball was inbounded.
He was able to continue the shot after the foul was called, read the rule on continuation. JR was granted a continuation earlier in the 4Q that probably shouldnt have been granted.

Stop it, no one in the world aside from delusional Knicks fans think that was a shooting foul. He was swiped twice before he put it up and he bobbled it. It's just not even close.

salty knicks fans