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we're 5 games out with 28 games left. it's possible but unlikely.
if he somehow does it you have to at least consider him but i wouldn't sign him long term
OfficiaL '16 NYK offseason thread, Melo goes to bodega in bathrobe and Olympic hat
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pr0phecy718,
- Start date
we're 5 games out with 28 games left. it's possible but unlikely.
if he somehow does it you have to at least consider him but i wouldn't sign him long term
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Can't believe he did it. Not bad Phil.
Now hire someone that'll put the players in the best position to succeed.
Now hire someone that'll put the players in the best position to succeed.
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Not loving the majority of names being mentioned.
Luke Walton will have us playing slightly better at first.
Shaw will have the team playing the same way.
If Mark Jackson becomes coach, I'm not watching Knicks game anymore until he's fired so maybe a season break for me.
Thibbs will have the team playing better defense and probably better overall minus offense but Melo will probably end up in early retirement, not even get to trade him and KP is gonna be done for.
With whoever becomes coach next season, the countdown for yall ******** on the new coach and ignoring how buns this roster is has already started.
Luke Walton will have us playing slightly better at first.
Shaw will have the team playing the same way.
If Mark Jackson becomes coach, I'm not watching Knicks game anymore until he's fired so maybe a season break for me.
Thibbs will have the team playing better defense and probably better overall minus offense but Melo will probably end up in early retirement, not even get to trade him and KP is gonna be done for.
With whoever becomes coach next season, the countdown for yall ******** on the new coach and ignoring how buns this roster is has already started.
He should stay on as an assistant, nothing more.
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I think you have to consider it. Season is kinda in shambles at this point
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????
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Now Stephen A. Smiff talmbout Phil may go to LA should Jeannie decide to clean house.
EddieDoyers
formerly eddiengambino
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He gonna clean her pipes every day when he goes back that's for sure
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I wood.
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Stephen A knows less than nothing about anything
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If Phil is gone after next season the Knicks will go right back to sucking balls.Phil's treehouse of friends
he put us back on track as a franchise but i wouldn't mind moving on from Phil so we can move on from the triangle :\
What about Kobe
i'm 100% on board with Coach Mamba
Kobe becoming a great coach would be too much
What's so funny about that?
We're experts on what a team that sucks looks like.
Thibbs has no offensive experience
Son is a defense guy through and through.
sonoftony
Supporter
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Why? Wasn't 8th out goal for the season? Keep him just cuz we did what we were expected to?
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After the hole fisher put us in it would be impressive to sneak in
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I think I'm reading toooooo much into it but I think Phil's crazy @!*# would trade Melo if he waived his no trade clause
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Melo would def be gone if it wasn't for that clause
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he should still try to move him with his consent obviously. one first rounder is good enough return
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Absolutely
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Proph, how you gonna change the thread title for a Stephen A rumor?
Can't even bask in this shocking Fish firing before this fear mongering comes along.
Can't even bask in this shocking Fish firing before this fear mongering comes along.
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New Knicks coach: Tom Thibodeau, Luke Walton or Phil Jackson?
NBA Insiders
ESPN.com
The New York Knicks shocked the basketball world by firing coach Derek Fisher on Monday morning.
Did they make the right move? Should they hire Tom Thibodeau or Luke Walton as their next coach? And does Phil Jackson know what he's doing?
Our Insider 5-on-5 crew breaks down the Knicks' big move.
1. Firing Derek Fisher: Good move or not?
Bradford Doolittle: Not. But the original bad move was hiring a guy straight out of his playing career in the first place. Did the Knicks really expect Fisher to be John Wooden right out of the gate? Pulling the plug now says you think the team is ready to win, but they're not. And I can't imagine this looks good to Fisher's buddy Kevin Durant.
Amin Elhassan: Good move. The moment the news came out that he took a day off during camp to fly cross-country to supposedly handle a family issue but in reality to kick it with his girlfriend (regardless of who she used to be married to), he was on thin ice.
Remember, we're not talking about Red Holzman here. Fisher was a neophyte coach coming off an awful debut season and he shouldn't have felt comfortable enough to relax during such an important period of the season.
Also, while the Knicks roster isn't playoff-caliber, Fisher routinely made questionable decisions in play-calling (or lack thereof) and substitutions.
Chad Ford: If they are going after Tom Thibodeau and didn't want to lose him to another team looking for a head coach, it's a good move. Since he may be a candidate for other coaching jobs, Thibs might not be available if New York waits. Of course, if it's Luke Walton they're after, they probably jumped the gun, as he won't be available until summer.
Tom Haberstroh: Yes, if this had nothing to do with the recent skid where the Knicks have lost nine of last 10. I'm not sure Derek Fisher was the right head coach, based on his body of work. But firing him now midseason feels like yet another impulsive move by the Dolan administration despite Fisher overseeing one of the best rookie campaigns in team history - the stellar season of Kristaps Porzingis.
David Thorpe: Good move, if they hire the right guy next. Otherwise it's just a waste of money. I've long suspected that the "Fisher brand" wasn't a reflection of reality because he made questionable personal decisions as a player, including the one that Amin alluded to above. As a coach, I saw nothing that made me think he was going to be great.
2. Fact or Fiction: The Knicks have underachieved this season.
Doolittle: Fiction. The consensus projection for New York was 25-30 wins, and they've already won 23. The Knicks have overachieved to a significant degree, with solid contributions up and down the roster. Plus Fisher got Carmelo Anthony to become a better facilitator, which is impressive in itself.
Elhassan: Fact, but barely. They were never going to meet the overblown expectations being bandied about as a reason for his dismissal, but they definitely could have been better.
Ford: Complete fiction. The Knicks have, if anything, overachieved, thanks to the stellar play of Porzingis. They should be thrilled with where they are as a team given the current cast.
Haberstroh: Fiction. This is what I don't understand: Vegas put the over/under at 31.5 wins. Our own Fall Forecast had them at 27 wins. They're on pace for 35. Considering they're on track to beat the odds by a wide margin, it feels to me like some ugly details have yet to surface.
Thorpe: Fiction. To me they are where they should be: bottom 10 in the league. Which is why I suggest firing Fisher makes sense if they hire the right guy. It's not Fisher's fault the team is bad, but he's not a guy who could get the team to reach their full potential down the road.
3. The next coach of the Knicks should be ________?
Doolittle: Jackson is so dogmatic that you have to think he'll hire from within the tiny group of his triangle-trained acolytes. But Brian Shaw didn't strictly play the triangle when coaching Denver, and Walton sure as heck didn't do it in Golden State. So I think they should just go with Kurt Rambis, since history says whoever they hire is going to be fired before they're ready to contend anyway.
Elhassan: I'll bet the farm that the next coach will also be a triangle believer, meaning Thibodeau and Mark Jackson are probably not in the realm of reality, despite the speculation they're attracting. Walton is the absolute winner of all coaching rumors, and will have his pick, and Shaw was rumored to have been Jackson's personal preference to be his successor in Los Angeles.
But I'm praying for Kobe Bryant to play Coach Mamba for sheer entertainment value.
Ford: Luke Walton. The temptation will be to grab Thibs. He clearly has the résumé, and if Phil is going to try to turn this team into a contender right now, it might be the right choice. But if they follow the path they should and rebuild slowly, Walton is the right guy to develop this team.
Haberstroh: Phil Jackson. I'm not sure Luke Walton has the hardened temperament to handle the New York spotlight, so this doesn't seem like the right environment for him to thrive. But I'd love to see how Jackson would do in the 2016 NBA without Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan on his team.
Thorpe: Tom Thibodeau. His work ethic and basketball IQ alone would be beloved by the fans in New York, in part because it would help transform the team into one the fans can identify with.
Thibs should have gotten more credit for helping guys like Joakim Noah, Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson realize their full potential. He'd have a similar effect on Porzingis and Jerian Grant, and maybe get more out of Melo than anyone expects these days.
One quick take: Luke Walton proved he can ride an elite racehorse well, but this team is not that horse.
4. What is your take on Phil Jackson's performance as team president?
Doolittle: In most respects, it's been OK. No terrible, cap-wasting signings. The emergence of something like a team identity. And of course, drafting Porzingis. But he's bungled the coach situation.
The real test will be how Jackson deals with Anthony. Does he wait to trade him until he's lost all value?
Elhassan: Phil has steadily improved at a job that was new and foreign to him, and he's done a good job of building with an eye toward long-term sustainable success with careful cap management and open-minded scouting. He still has a ways to go, and his dogmatic belief in the triangle limits him, but Phil has the Knicks in a better place than they've been in for quite a while.
Ford: Well, he had the courage to draft Porzingis. That alone earns him major props. The rest of his moves haven't been impressive, but overall, it's too early to tell. If he trades Melo and rebuilds the right way, I'll be impressed. If he settles for getting the Knicks to 45 wins, I won't be.
Haberstroh: He's been far better than I expected. The Porzingis selection was as brilliant as it was gutsy, and I thought the Robin Lopez signing was also a smart move for a team that could have made splashier, less sensible signings. But if the Fisher hire and fire was his call, that doesn't look good on his résumé.
Thorpe: As a president, he makes for a fantastic former coach. Getting Porzingis might end up changing the narrative, but let's face it, that's not what everyone hoped for when Mr. 11 Rings himself came on board.
He hasn't been an adequate mentor for Fisher, created a program for veterans to thrive or recruited elite talent. But it's fair to see if he can get better in time.
5. What's the biggest problem for the Knicks?
Doolittle: Impatience at the top levels. The word should be plastered on a huge marquee in front of Madison Square Garden. It's the consistent theme for this organization since Pat Riley left. Apparently this organizational trait has pierced the Zen tranquility of the current decision-maker.
Elhassan: Patience. This franchise is a train wreck because it's never given anyone enough time to do things the right way.
The last time they were on the right track was when Donnie Walsh was in charge and was building an exciting team around Amar'e Stoudemire, Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, with cap flexibility and a flush pick inventory. Then came an impetuous trade for Carmelo Anthony, and the team is still paying the price.
That said, firing a coach who wasn't all that good to begin with and didn't comport himself well isn't a reset or detour, but merely appropriate recognition of and adjustment to a situation.
Ford: They are in limbo. They don't have a lottery pick this year, aren't good enough to be a serious playoff contender or a major free-agent draw, and likely won't be bad enough to land another elite draft prospect next year.
Something has to give. They need to convince Melo he would be happier with a contender and try to trade for another young cornerstone to pair with Porzingis.
Haberstroh: James Dolan is still the owner. Kurt Rambis will be the 10th head coach since 2001-02; they've spent way more money than anybody else; they have as many sexual harassment scandals as playoff series wins over that time (one). The constant is Dolan.
Thorpe: No defensive identity, and not enough offensive talent to make up for it. As Brad Stevens is proving this season, defense starts with systems, strategy and buy-in. The Knicks can't be an elite offensive team as constructed, but they could be a top-12 defense.
If Thibs takes over this team, it could be a top-10 defense next season, making the Knicks a playoff contender with some bite.
NBA Insiders
ESPN.com
The New York Knicks shocked the basketball world by firing coach Derek Fisher on Monday morning.
Did they make the right move? Should they hire Tom Thibodeau or Luke Walton as their next coach? And does Phil Jackson know what he's doing?
Our Insider 5-on-5 crew breaks down the Knicks' big move.
1. Firing Derek Fisher: Good move or not?
Bradford Doolittle: Not. But the original bad move was hiring a guy straight out of his playing career in the first place. Did the Knicks really expect Fisher to be John Wooden right out of the gate? Pulling the plug now says you think the team is ready to win, but they're not. And I can't imagine this looks good to Fisher's buddy Kevin Durant.
Amin Elhassan: Good move. The moment the news came out that he took a day off during camp to fly cross-country to supposedly handle a family issue but in reality to kick it with his girlfriend (regardless of who she used to be married to), he was on thin ice.
Remember, we're not talking about Red Holzman here. Fisher was a neophyte coach coming off an awful debut season and he shouldn't have felt comfortable enough to relax during such an important period of the season.
Also, while the Knicks roster isn't playoff-caliber, Fisher routinely made questionable decisions in play-calling (or lack thereof) and substitutions.
Chad Ford: If they are going after Tom Thibodeau and didn't want to lose him to another team looking for a head coach, it's a good move. Since he may be a candidate for other coaching jobs, Thibs might not be available if New York waits. Of course, if it's Luke Walton they're after, they probably jumped the gun, as he won't be available until summer.
Tom Haberstroh: Yes, if this had nothing to do with the recent skid where the Knicks have lost nine of last 10. I'm not sure Derek Fisher was the right head coach, based on his body of work. But firing him now midseason feels like yet another impulsive move by the Dolan administration despite Fisher overseeing one of the best rookie campaigns in team history - the stellar season of Kristaps Porzingis.
David Thorpe: Good move, if they hire the right guy next. Otherwise it's just a waste of money. I've long suspected that the "Fisher brand" wasn't a reflection of reality because he made questionable personal decisions as a player, including the one that Amin alluded to above. As a coach, I saw nothing that made me think he was going to be great.
2. Fact or Fiction: The Knicks have underachieved this season.
Doolittle: Fiction. The consensus projection for New York was 25-30 wins, and they've already won 23. The Knicks have overachieved to a significant degree, with solid contributions up and down the roster. Plus Fisher got Carmelo Anthony to become a better facilitator, which is impressive in itself.
Elhassan: Fact, but barely. They were never going to meet the overblown expectations being bandied about as a reason for his dismissal, but they definitely could have been better.
Ford: Complete fiction. The Knicks have, if anything, overachieved, thanks to the stellar play of Porzingis. They should be thrilled with where they are as a team given the current cast.
Haberstroh: Fiction. This is what I don't understand: Vegas put the over/under at 31.5 wins. Our own Fall Forecast had them at 27 wins. They're on pace for 35. Considering they're on track to beat the odds by a wide margin, it feels to me like some ugly details have yet to surface.
Thorpe: Fiction. To me they are where they should be: bottom 10 in the league. Which is why I suggest firing Fisher makes sense if they hire the right guy. It's not Fisher's fault the team is bad, but he's not a guy who could get the team to reach their full potential down the road.
3. The next coach of the Knicks should be ________?
Doolittle: Jackson is so dogmatic that you have to think he'll hire from within the tiny group of his triangle-trained acolytes. But Brian Shaw didn't strictly play the triangle when coaching Denver, and Walton sure as heck didn't do it in Golden State. So I think they should just go with Kurt Rambis, since history says whoever they hire is going to be fired before they're ready to contend anyway.
Elhassan: I'll bet the farm that the next coach will also be a triangle believer, meaning Thibodeau and Mark Jackson are probably not in the realm of reality, despite the speculation they're attracting. Walton is the absolute winner of all coaching rumors, and will have his pick, and Shaw was rumored to have been Jackson's personal preference to be his successor in Los Angeles.
But I'm praying for Kobe Bryant to play Coach Mamba for sheer entertainment value.
Ford: Luke Walton. The temptation will be to grab Thibs. He clearly has the résumé, and if Phil is going to try to turn this team into a contender right now, it might be the right choice. But if they follow the path they should and rebuild slowly, Walton is the right guy to develop this team.
Haberstroh: Phil Jackson. I'm not sure Luke Walton has the hardened temperament to handle the New York spotlight, so this doesn't seem like the right environment for him to thrive. But I'd love to see how Jackson would do in the 2016 NBA without Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan on his team.
Thorpe: Tom Thibodeau. His work ethic and basketball IQ alone would be beloved by the fans in New York, in part because it would help transform the team into one the fans can identify with.
Thibs should have gotten more credit for helping guys like Joakim Noah, Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson realize their full potential. He'd have a similar effect on Porzingis and Jerian Grant, and maybe get more out of Melo than anyone expects these days.
One quick take: Luke Walton proved he can ride an elite racehorse well, but this team is not that horse.
4. What is your take on Phil Jackson's performance as team president?
Doolittle: In most respects, it's been OK. No terrible, cap-wasting signings. The emergence of something like a team identity. And of course, drafting Porzingis. But he's bungled the coach situation.
The real test will be how Jackson deals with Anthony. Does he wait to trade him until he's lost all value?
Elhassan: Phil has steadily improved at a job that was new and foreign to him, and he's done a good job of building with an eye toward long-term sustainable success with careful cap management and open-minded scouting. He still has a ways to go, and his dogmatic belief in the triangle limits him, but Phil has the Knicks in a better place than they've been in for quite a while.
Ford: Well, he had the courage to draft Porzingis. That alone earns him major props. The rest of his moves haven't been impressive, but overall, it's too early to tell. If he trades Melo and rebuilds the right way, I'll be impressed. If he settles for getting the Knicks to 45 wins, I won't be.
Haberstroh: He's been far better than I expected. The Porzingis selection was as brilliant as it was gutsy, and I thought the Robin Lopez signing was also a smart move for a team that could have made splashier, less sensible signings. But if the Fisher hire and fire was his call, that doesn't look good on his résumé.
Thorpe: As a president, he makes for a fantastic former coach. Getting Porzingis might end up changing the narrative, but let's face it, that's not what everyone hoped for when Mr. 11 Rings himself came on board.
He hasn't been an adequate mentor for Fisher, created a program for veterans to thrive or recruited elite talent. But it's fair to see if he can get better in time.
5. What's the biggest problem for the Knicks?
Doolittle: Impatience at the top levels. The word should be plastered on a huge marquee in front of Madison Square Garden. It's the consistent theme for this organization since Pat Riley left. Apparently this organizational trait has pierced the Zen tranquility of the current decision-maker.
Elhassan: Patience. This franchise is a train wreck because it's never given anyone enough time to do things the right way.
The last time they were on the right track was when Donnie Walsh was in charge and was building an exciting team around Amar'e Stoudemire, Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, with cap flexibility and a flush pick inventory. Then came an impetuous trade for Carmelo Anthony, and the team is still paying the price.
That said, firing a coach who wasn't all that good to begin with and didn't comport himself well isn't a reset or detour, but merely appropriate recognition of and adjustment to a situation.
Ford: They are in limbo. They don't have a lottery pick this year, aren't good enough to be a serious playoff contender or a major free-agent draw, and likely won't be bad enough to land another elite draft prospect next year.
Something has to give. They need to convince Melo he would be happier with a contender and try to trade for another young cornerstone to pair with Porzingis.
Haberstroh: James Dolan is still the owner. Kurt Rambis will be the 10th head coach since 2001-02; they've spent way more money than anybody else; they have as many sexual harassment scandals as playoff series wins over that time (one). The constant is Dolan.
Thorpe: No defensive identity, and not enough offensive talent to make up for it. As Brad Stevens is proving this season, defense starts with systems, strategy and buy-in. The Knicks can't be an elite offensive team as constructed, but they could be a top-12 defense.
If Thibs takes over this team, it could be a top-10 defense next season, making the Knicks a playoff contender with some bite.
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Isola wrote Phil has an opt out this summer lol I kinda want him to see this thing out for all 5 years but if hes gonna be back with the Lakers eventually might as well do it now.
