OFFICIAL 2010-2011 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD : VOL. MOST. ANTICIPATED. PLAYOFFS. EVER?

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Is that Disneyworld? I can't tell

You gotta imagine Rondo gets a bit of a raise to counter w/e paycut PP would get.

The front of Disneyland.

And Dwight would never go to Memphis. He wants to be in a market where he can be a star, so really it's either the LA area or NY area. I can't see him anywhere else.
  

 

[CP1708]

@#$%, that's the part I forgot to bring up to JA, the fact that Dwight still gets a say in where he goes, it's not just what ORLD would want. 

 

 

[proshares]

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There's an offensive player out there who gives Tony Allen a lot of trouble. I swear.



I know this because when I caught up with Allen just before the playoffs, he said there was one guy in the league whom he has great difficulty covering. And then, in typical Allen fashion, he wouldn't say who.



"I can't give nobody no national credit," said Allen. "[But] I definitely know somebody who kind of gives me a little havoc."



No, he won't give up that edge easily, to whomever that player may be. Suffice it to say, however, that such a player is not on the roster of the San Antonio Spurs. Allen isn't the only reason the Grizzlies are poised to pull off one of the biggest upsets in NBA playoff history, but he's definitely on the short list. His manic defensive intensity has infected both his teammates and his city, and has left a San Antonio team that ranked second in the NBA in offensive efficiency in the regular season struggling to get a decent look.



To understand what he's done in Memphis, let's rewind the tape a bit first. Last season, the Memphis Grizzlies were the 24th-ranked defense in the NBA.




2011 PLAYOFFS: OTHER TOP DEFENDERS
Here's a look at some other players who have made a huge impact on defense in these playoffs:

Joel Anthony, Miami: Those appendages at the end of his arms won't catch anything, but they sure block and deflect a lot of balls. Anthony's rare combination of length and mobility has made him indispensable in the series against Philly despite his anemic offense. Miami has given up just 85.2 points per 100 possessions when he plays, compared to 119.7 when he sits -- the second-biggest differential in the postseason.

Jason Collins, Atlanta: The Dwight Howard stopper for Atlanta continues to make a jaw-dropping impact despite accumulating virtually no stats at all. In five games as the starting center, we're still waiting on Collins to achieve a double-double. No, not for a game, for the series -- he has six points and nine rebounds in the five games.

Nonetheless, Collins ranks No. 1 in on-court defense according to basketballvalue.com, with the Hawks giving up just 82.1 points per 100 possessions when he plays. His unique ability to defend Howard one-on-one is the main reason the Hawks are a win away from springing the upset.

Andrew Bynum, Los Angeles: The name of the game in L.A. is still domination around the basket, with the enormous Bynum holding the key. He has nine blocks and 37 defensive boards in the five games and has basically erased Emeka Okafor from the series. After Bynum's knee boo-boo in Game 4, the Lakers had to be encouraged by a spry Bynum wandering well out into the court to challenge Chris Paul in pick-and-roll defense Tuesday night. For the series, L.A's defense has been rock-solid with Bynum on the floor, but brutal (117.2 points per 100 possessions) as soon as he leaves.

Thabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City: The Thunder's unheralded stopper has been quietly effective as usual, with his defense on Raymond Felton at the end of Game 1 particularly crucial. With Sefolosha on the court in this series, OKC has given up 14.4 fewer points per 100 possessions.

Luol Deng, Chicago: Tasked with checking Indiana's Danny Granger, this was no easy feat, but the Bulls gave up only 96.8 points per 100 possessions in five games against Indiana and were dramatically better with Deng on the court. In fact, Chicago surrendered a whopping 134.6 points per 100 possessions with him off the floor against Indiana. Of course, Deng was rarely off it -- he averaged 42.4 minutes a night in the five games.

Taj Gibson, Chicago: The Bulls' bench wasn't the defensive force it had been during the regular season, with one huge exception: Gibson's contribution again proved monstrous. The Bulls allowed 91.2 points per 100 possessions in his minutes, the third-least of any player in the first round of the playoffs (Collins and Anthony were the two that were better).

Rudy Fernandez, Portland: Yes, Rudy Fernandez. J.J. Barea was one of Dallas' best offensive players in the regular season but hasn't done squat in this series, and Fernandez has been guarding him almost the entire time. Fernandez has picked up Barea deep in the backcourt and defended him closely on the dribble; while it seems on paper like this might be a disastrous plan, it's proven quite effective in preventing the speedy Barea from gaining a head of steam.



Twenty-fourth.



This season? They're a defensive juggernaut. Memphis ranked ninth in defensive efficiency this season, but even that understates how effective the Griz have become. They gained steam as the season went on, ranking in the middle of the pack early in the season, 12th by the All-Star break, and then as high as eighth before punting the final two regular-season games.



Those events coincide neatly with the increasing prominence of Allen in Memphis' playing rotation. He barely played for the first 30 games, took on a larger role for the next 20, and then finished the season in the starting lineup. Beginning on Feb. 8, when Allen moved into the starting lineup, Memphis went 19-8 before tanking the last two -- even though starting forward Rudy Gay was lost for the season on Feb. 15 due to an injured left shoulder.



Allen's impact can be seen more directly when looking at how Memphis got to be a top defense. Allen led the NBA in steals per minute, which reflected the Grizzlies' newfound M.O. of forcing turnovers in bunches. They were a fairly average defense in most other respects, but led the NBA by forcing miscues on 17.5 percent of opponent possessions.



The smothering pressure of Allen was a major reason, helping spread a contagion for defense that was already under way. Gay had transformed himself into a much more committed defender after a summer with the U.S. national team; younger players like Darrell Arthur, Sam Young and Mike Conley made massive progress; and a vastly improved bench eliminated the team's greatest weakness from last season.



And that defense largely explains why Memphis is one win away from becoming only the fourth No. 8 seed in history to make it out of the first round. The Grizzlies have held San Antonio to just 99.7 points per 100 possessions in four playoff games. That makes the Spurs' offense the worst of any of the eight Western Conference playoff teams thus far.



Subtract Allen and it doesn't happen. With Allen off the court, Memphis gives up 107.3 points per 100 opponent possessions, according to basketballvalue.com. That would put the Griz 18th in defensive efficiency (adjusting for slight differences in how we calculate possessions) during the regular season -- almost as bad as they were a year ago.



What makes Allen so effective is that his athleticism is coupled with an aggressiveness and swagger -- not to mention some serious trash talk -- he picked up from his years in Boston.



"I learned so much from those guys," said Allen, "Not just [trash talk], but work ethic, working hard every day, putting time into your craft."



His favorite tactic? Yelling "He with us!" as a bad shooter attempts a jump shot ... essentially saying the opponent is doing his team a favor by shooting.



"It's just something I heard my boy Paul Pierce say over the years," said Allen. "It kind of gets in the shooter's head after he's missed a couple, so it's just a technique I use to try to distract my opponent, that's all."



That's not his only ruse.



"It varies," said Allen. "I just try to mix it up, whatever I can do to get my opponent rattled and off his game, and thinking about something else, I'll use."



Of course, it's a lot more effective because of Allen's other skills. His rare combination of quickness and ferocity allows him to gamble for steals and still recover in time to make a play. And his ability to play one-on-one on the perimeter with no help has left Memphis' not-exactly-nimble frontcourt pair of Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol less exposed.



Meanwhile, Allen's passion for defense has spread to a team that cared little for this end of the floor last season. Younger teams with stable rosters can often make steady improvement at the defensive end, so the fact that Memphis advanced this season is no surprise -- but the size of the gain is what's so shocking.



As a result, the Grizzlies are in the catbird's seat for a trip to the second round ... and a likely pairing against an Oklahoma City team they won three of four from in the regular season. (Side note: If you think Thunder officials are pulling for the Griz because they would have home-court advantage, think again. They are deeply worried about this matchup.)



Historically, teams that are up 3-1 have a 95.8 percent chance of advancing, making a Grizzlies-Thunder pairing highly probable ... and creating the mouthwatering possibility of the league's top perimeter defender (Allen) checking its top scorer (Kevin Durant).



Before then, however, the Griz have to take care of business against a proud San Antonio team that won't roll over easily. If they do, you can give Allen and his ferocious D the lion's share of the credit.





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A quick look at some probabilities heading into Wednesday night. First of all, you can probably book a Dallas-Los Angeles second-round matchup. Home-court advantage teams that split the first four games and then win Game 5 have advanced 66 times out of 72 since 1983-84, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, a 91.7 percent success rate.



And you can probably also put Memphis, Miami and Oklahoma City into Round 2, based on the 95.8 percent success rate I quoted above.



So the most even series left is Atlanta-Orlando. The Hawks have an 85.2 percent chance of advancing based on the history of teams that are ahead 3-2, but Orlando's beatdown of Atlanta on Tuesday night makes you wonder if the Hawks are in the 15 percent minority. AccuScore's Playoff Predictor still sees this one as unsettled, giving Orlando a 38 percent shot of advancing.

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Last week, we witnessed Zach Randolph, a perennial 20-point and 10-rebound player on a playoff team, sign a big-time, four-year extension worth an annual $17.8 million. That kind of money is only reserved for a franchise player, or what I like to call a tentpole -- a player a team can build around who is productive on both ends of the floor.



But is Randolph really a tentpole? Yes, he's a tentpole as sturdy as his frame. Considering both ends of the floor, there's substantial evidence to suggest he's a better long-term option than, say, Amare Stoudemire, who loves to score but loves to see his opponent score, too.



How can we tell? As observers of the game, our perceptions are skewed to reward offense, since that's pretty much all we can find in the box score. To curb those biases, I've created an all-in-one value metric that takes PER a step further, expanding our scope on defense. For the offensive component, we'll use offensive PER, a cousin of John Hollinger's PER, which you can find on 82games.com, that strictly looks at offensive production (no blocks or steals considered).



Defense is less straightforward, so we'll need to call in the ringers. We'll package together three of the most comprehensive defensive metrics in the public forum: opponent PER, which tells us the PER of a player's counterpart in the opposing lineup; defensive plus-minus, which tells us how the team defense improved with a player on the court; and Synergy Sports' defensive efficiency rating, which uses countless hours of scout video tracking to assess a player's defensive acumen. I combined the three ratings to come up with a rating that ranges from 1 to 100, in which 50 is average and 100 is the cream of the crop. That's the defensive component. Both are on a 100-point scale.



As you might have guessed LeBron James (100 offense, 97 defense rating) and Dwight Howard blow out the competition in this metric, but there are some other players who warrant your attention for their two-way play. Let's take a look at five players who deserve more tentpole recognition.



FRANCHISE TENTPOLE PLAYERS



Zach Randolph -- Offense 94, Defense 65


Randolph has often earned the reputation of being a temperamental stat-padder who only plays when he feels like it. But since being released from the clutches of Isiah Thomas and the New York Knicks (who gave us this amazing clip), the 29-year-old has been one of the most productive players in the NBA. Few players can match Randolph's consistency and high level of play.



Sure, he's not the best help defender out there, but while he's putting up 20 and 10 every night, all of the available defensive metrics consider him average or slightly above average on that end of the floor. The Grizzlies' defense is essentially unchanged when he leaves the court (allowing 106.6 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and 106.5 points when he's on the bench), and when it comes to defending the post-up Synergy Sports places him in the top-third in the league in defensive efficiency. He's easily a top-20 player in the league, and now he's getting paid like it.




LaMarcus Aldridge -- Offense 97, Defense 79


Judging by his PER alone, Aldridge should have been an All-Star this season. But once we consider his defensive impact, he's entering top-10-player territory. When we talk about players who were most valuable to his team this season, we tend to leave Aldridge out of the discussion, and I'm not sure why. Looking at his plus-minus numbers, his impact on the Portland Trail Blazers was off the charts this season, as the team played about 15 points per 100 possessions better with Aldridge on the floor (fifth best in the league).



And it's not just because he can score anywhere inside the arc. The 25-year-old has been a staunch defender, despite splitting his minutes between his natural position at the 4 and the center spot. Synergy rates him as the fourth-best defender in the pick-and-roll among those with at least 200 plays defended, which is a huge improvement from where he was a season ago. He doubled his block rate this season -- the Blazers are 5.5 points better per 100 possessions defensively with him on the court -- and he's entering his prime. Tentpole.



Kevin Garnett -- Offense 91, Defense 95


How do we continue to underrate this guy? Forget blocks and steals. Garnett is probably the best defender in the league outside of Howard, providing a great example of why the box score comes up short in defensive analysis. Take any defensive metric and they all uniformly agree that he's about as good as any player in the league at point prevention.



The Celtics maintained their No. 2 spot in the defensive efficiency rankings, even after Kendrick Perkins left, thanks to Garnett still anchoring the back line. Whether it's defensive plus-minus, opponent PER or Synergy video data, you name it and Garnett ranks among the league leaders. No big man pays more attention to detail in defensive coverage, swarming the ball like a wet blanket and playing the angles like a sunbather. Even at his age (he turns 35 in May), you'll be hard-pressed to find a stronger two-way foundation to build around.



Andre Iguodala -- Offense 65, Defense 95


LeBron will tell you that only two players have averaged 14 points, five rebounds and six assists this season: himself and Iguodala. It's fitting the two have gone head to head in the opening round of the Eastern Conference playoffs, because in many ways Iguodala is LeBron Lite, a wing player who impacts the game in so many ways on both ends of the floor.



Iguodala's reputation has swung like a pendulum over the past few seasons, from underappreciated to overpaid to underappreciated again. Sure, he's been hobbled this season, but the 27-year-old still ranks as one of the best defenders in the league. According to 82games, his opponent PER is a league-best 8.8, which means he basically reduces his counterpart to Travis Outlaw-esque production. That's value. Iguodala's ability to guard multiple positions has also helped the Sixers play four points better per 100 possessions with the 6-foot-6 freak athlete on the floor. He may not be a go-to scorer, but he doesn't need to be to have a major positive impact on the game.



Andrew Bynum -- Offense 92, Defense 98


He's 23 years old and has posted a PER over 20 over the past four seasons. He is one of the game's best shot-blockers and already has anchored two championship teams. In the context of on-court efficiency and impact outside the box score, Bynum is the best center in the NBA not named Howard, and he also may be the most overlooked.



Look at what he's done to the Lakers' defense, especially in the playoffs. With Bynum on the court in the postseason, the Lakers have allowed just 101.3 points per 100 possessions against Chris Paul and the Hornets. When Bynum sits, the Hornets drop 117.2 points per 100 possessions. Along with Howard and Garnett, Bynum is the only big man this season to rank in the top 15 percent in each of the three defensive metrics. He's about as efficient as it gets on the block, and he'll only refine his game as he enters his prime in the next few seasons. The only obstacle standing in his way? The health of his knees. Oh, that and Kobe's regular hijacking of the offense.



FAUX FRANCHISE ONE-WAY PLAYERS



Amare Stoudemire -- Offense 94, Defense 18


[+] EnlargeSteve Babineau/NBAE/Getty Images
There's no questioning Amare Stoudemire's ability on offense. But his defense leaves a lot to be desired.

The classic all-offense, no-defense player. Sure, Stoudemire has upped his block rate to heights he hasn't seen since 2007-08, but there's more to defense than swatting a couple of shots per game. Dig deeper and you'll find his defensive liabilities almost completely compromise his other-worldly exploits on the other end of the floor. Consider this sobering fact: The Knicks were 5.8 points better per 100 possessions offensively with Stoudemire on the court this season, but the defense became 5.6 points worse. Basically, it was a zero-sum exchange.



That isn't anything new. In 2009-10, the Phoenix Suns were 2.6 points better offensively with him on the court but 3.8 points worse on defense. His individual and team-based defensive metrics are all terrible, which makes it even more imperative that the Knicks find the next Dikembe Mutombo to compensate. Good luck with that.



Al Jefferson -- Offense 87, Defense 31


The good thing is, at 26 years old, Jefferson is still relatively young. That said, he'll need all the time he can get to reverse the harrowing trends. Jefferson had the worst defensive on-court/off-court differential in the NBA this past season, as the Utah Jazz hemorrhaged 111.8 points per 100 possessions with him on the court and just 103 points with him sitting.



Individually, his counterpart on the opposing team has beaten up on him all season. The average player in the NBA has a 15 PER, but power forwards against Jefferson have posted a 24.4 PER. Centers against Jefferson? 16.6. All the post moves in the world won't do a thing to mitigate his matador act on the other side of the floor.



Carlos Boozer -- Offense 84, Defense 26


If you're somehow able to ignore Carlos Boozer's yelling on the court, you can actually hear opposing big men giggle in delight when they get to face the Chicago Bulls' defensively maligned big man. The Bulls have some of the best defending big men in the league in Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and Omer Asik, and there's a reason why the Bulls did just fine with Boozer sidelined this season.



That isn't just a blip. For three years running now, Boozer's teams play better with him on the bench, despite his lofty scoring and rebound totals. This season in Chicago, the Bulls' defense has been about six points better with him riding the pine. The Bulls have four years and $61 million remaining on his contract.



Monta Ellis -- Offense 76, Defense 27


The Golden State Warriors can play Ellis or Stephen Curry but they can't play both. That's what we've learned over the past two seasons, but they continue to trot out the two defenseless guards. If the Warriors need help picking which one to move, it's not even a question: It's Ellis.



Ellis is the Stoudemire of wing players, posting gaudy point totals but surrendering just as many on the other end. For the second straight season, the high-volume shooter posted abysmal plus-minus numbers, as the Warriors beat opponents by 41 points with him sitting in 2010-11 but lost by 232 points with him in the game. It's time to move on and let Curry blossom.



Kevin Martin -- Offense 89, Defense 40


Ironically, Martin is the type of player that requires a Yao Ming-like presence down low to cover up his defensive mistakes. It's safe to say the Rockets had that in mind when they dealt for the hyper-efficient shooting guard at the 2009-10 trade deadline. The basketball gods had other plans.



Martin's 25.9 points per game average screams franchise player, but there's little else that warrants the label. He's a liability on the defensive side of the ball, as opposing players effectively shot 60.5 percent on spot-up field goal attempts, according to Synergy data. In other words, he's an efficiency machine on both ends of the floor.

 

[bhzmafia14]

I actually think that guy is Manu Ginobili or Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin has looked like the best player in the league against us all season long. 
Manu hasn't been shooting well this series, but he's giving Tony hell. He's really the only player in the league that has that jerky, unorthodox style. Being that Tony is an aggressive defender and likes to take gambles, Ginobili usually gets him with pump fakes. He's done a pretty good job on Manu though. Its just that Tony hasn't looked like Tony "the defensive stopper" this series.

I do expect that to happen next series (if we advance hopefully) being that Tony had some of his best games against the Thunder this season.

 

[bigmike23]

im not sure who is more over vauled on this board byum or OJ mayo. one is always hurt and has been said many times his knee will never be 100% heathly and the other SUCKS. but yet yall swear up and down u will get vaule for them in a trade.

 

[bhzmafia14]

What does "suck" mean to you mike? 

 

[pmatic]

Hollinger said in his chat that the scorer isn't a "headliner".

I would have guessed Paul Pierce (he was asked a similar question like a month ago and answered Pierce). But since it isn't a headliner, it's probably someone like Stephen Jackson.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

I actually think that guy is Manu Ginobili or Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin has looked like the best player in the league against us all season long.

Nah, I think you meant Kyle Lowry.

 

[bhzmafia14]

  
If its not a headliner, I would go with Kevin Martin then. I guess Pierce would be one, but I haven't seen a lot of Tony vs. Pierce matchups.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Hollinger said in his chat that the scorer isn't a "headliner".

I would have guessed Paul Pierce (he was asked a similar question like a month ago and answered Pierce). But since it isn't a headliner, it's probably someone like Stephen Jackson.

Just glancing at TA's game log this season, looks like he got into foul trouble (4+ fouls for his limited minutes and multiple games) a lot against the ATL and OKC tho. Not a great determining factor but something to think about. 

No shots taken.

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

What does "suck" mean to you mike? 

OJ is not that good pont blank period.

why would Oj mayo get you D12 back? gasol is a fine center but will never be a superstar D12 so u need to add someone else in the trade. you really think OJ mayo is that player?

he is a undersize guard. he cant guard most SG and doesnt have the skills to play PG. his career role in the NBA should be a 6th man. Rudy gay was suppose to be holding OJ back and we see that wasnt it. i mean of course if you put him on a bad team that he can jack up shots he will do numbers just look at what jason terry did in ATL.

could he have a jason terry/ben gordon(when he was with the bulls) type 6th man impact on a winning team down the line? maybe but he is not even close to he shooter them guys are

 

[CP1708]

Bigmike23 wrote:

---

im not sure who is more over vauled on this board byum or OJ mayo. one is always hurt and has been said many times his knee will never be 100% heathly and the other SUCKS. but yet yall swear up and down u will get vaule for them in a trade.
Easy, the guy produces when he is on the floor, is only 23, is a LEGIT 7 foot center, has offense and defense capabilities, and because of the injury stuff, he can't command as big a contract as he would if he was a perfectly healthy 23 year old center.  That's value. 

By all means, go ahead and break me down the top 7 footers in the NBA above Bynum.  Dwight, then what?  Ain't nobody else there man.  And you can't teach 7 feet. 

Hell, Oden is going to have a market, and that boy done jack @#$% in the league compared to what Bynum has done. 

  

 

[pmatic]

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[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by CP1708

.Easy, the guy produces when he is on the floor, is only 23, is a LEGIT 7 foot center, has offense and defense capabilities, and because of the injury stuff, he can't command as big a contract as he would if he was a perfectly healthy 23 year old center.  That's value. 

By all means, go ahead and break me down the top 7 footers in the NBA above Bynum.  Dwight, then what?  Ain't nobody else there man.  And you can't teach 7 feet. 

Hell, Oden is going to have a market, and that boy done jack @#$% in the league compared to what Bynum has done. 

  

ya and oden is going to get some 1 million dollar 1 year deal.

when heathly bynum is a top center. no question about it. 

problem is he has a history since like middle school of knee problems and not been able to stay heathly. why trade for that? your not going to get back a 20 and 10 7 footer playing 70+ games a year

if the magic put D12 on the block there are many teams that can throw offers around better then a always hurt Bynum and odom who we wall know once he leaves LA will not be even close to the same player he is now.

  

 

[bhzmafia14]

Are you judging him based off this season alone though? I'm not using this as the sole reason why he had such a bad year, but he had  ALOT of bad things going on. Failed during his PG experiment in summer league, lost his starting spot, got into it with Tony, dad dragged a police officer with his car, was suspended 10 games and it was more off the court stuff that went on that he doesn't even want to bring up.
I mean he's a a career 17ppg scorer. His 1st season, he put up good numbers on a 20 win team and a bunch of 30 point games. No big deal, but he put virtually the same numbers  up his 2nd season on a 40-win team. Defensively, he has improved since the 2nd half of the season. I just don't know if he will keep it up or not. I think he guards PG's a lot better than SG's though. I still don't think he's comfortable with his role on the team though.

Is he what I thought he would be in the league right now? No. I thought he would be on his way to at least an all-star game by his 4th year. But, Hollins and a bunch of other stuff changed that. Do I still think he's capable of making an all-star team though? Possibly. Look at the things he does well compared to the things he doesn't do well. I think you can get more out of him than what we are currently seeing.

 

[youngtriz]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Originally Posted by CP1708

.Easy, the guy produces when he is on the floor, is only 23, is a LEGIT 7 foot center, has offense and defense capabilities, and because of the injury stuff, he can't command as big a contract as he would if he was a perfectly healthy 23 year old center.  That's value. 

By all means, go ahead and break me down the top 7 footers in the NBA above Bynum.  Dwight, then what?  Ain't nobody else there man.  And you can't teach 7 feet. 

Hell, Oden is going to have a market, and that boy done jack @#$% in the league compared to what Bynum has done. 

  

ya and oden is going to get some 1 million dollar 1 year deal.

when heathly bynum is a top center. no question about it. 

problem is he has a history since like middle school of knee problems and not been able to stay heathly. why trade for that? your not going to get back a 20 and 10 7 footer playing 70+ games a year

if the magic put D12 on the block there are many teams that can throw offers around better then a always hurt Bynum and odom who we wall know once he leaves LA will not be even close to the same player he is now.

  

i gotta agree with mike on this one... i would rather take a guy like nene and some solid role players over bynum...

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Originally Posted by CP1708

.Easy, the guy produces when he is on the floor, is only 23, is a LEGIT 7 foot center, has offense and defense capabilities, and because of the injury stuff, he can't command as big a contract as he would if he was a perfectly healthy 23 year old center.  That's value. 

By all means, go ahead and break me down the top 7 footers in the NBA above Bynum.  Dwight, then what?  Ain't nobody else there man.  And you can't teach 7 feet. 

Hell, Oden is going to have a market, and that boy done jack @#$% in the league compared to what Bynum has done. 

  

ya and oden is going to get some 1 million dollar 1 year deal.

when heathly bynum is a top center. no question about it. 

problem is he has a history since like middle school of knee problems and not been able to stay heathly. why trade for that? your not going to get back a 20 and 10 7 footer playing 70+ games a year

if the magic put D12 on the block there are many teams that can throw offers around better then a always hurt Bynum and odom who we wall know once he leaves LA will not be even close to the same player he is now.

  

i gotta agree with mike on this one... i would rather take a guy like nene and some solid role players over bynum...

 no, you're HOPING Mike is right on this one. 

Ya'll go ahead and tell me why Dwight wants to go play for the Denver Nuggets.  I'll wait all day for this one. 

And as I said, the Magic do not need to keep Bynum.  They can simply control his option year, and move him wherever they'd like if they don't think his knee will ever give them 70 games a year.  I'm not sure why that keeps getting forgotten.  It's not like they're giving him a 15 year contract.  They have one year, (at their option) to see what they want to do with him.  And someone will make offers for him, you can count on that. 


Ask yourselves, what if LA called back and said yes to Denver for Carmelo?  No really, what if?  Certainly it was a tactic to get NY to raise their offer, but what if NY dropped out, and LA said sure, we'll do it?  There's value there.  
  

 

[big j 33]

While I prefer not to discuss hypotheticals that are over a year away... people need to remember that much like the Melo scenario, if Dwight doesn't essentially sign off on an extension, there's no guarantee he stays where Orlando trades him. Memphis could throw up an offer, but if he doesn't want to be there then they won't make the trade.

You can think up a lot of possible offers that give you better value, but unless Dwight wants to be there, teams won't take the chance.

And as a reminder, Dwight has a player option for 2012-2013, he isn't an unrestricted after next season, he still has to opt out.

 

[bigmike23]

Ya'll go ahead and tell me why Dwight wants to go play for the Denver Nuggets.  I'll wait all day for this one.
but he will go play for memphis??...........




   

It's not like they're giving him a 15 year contract.  They have one year, (at their option) to see what they want to do with him.  And someone will make offers for him, you can count on that. 


so he plays half a year with the magic and has knee problems again..... who is going to want him?

 

[CP1708]

I didn't say he would play in Memphis, but I could see him there moreso then Denver.  I think he'd have a much better core in Memphis then what Denver would surround him with. 

And like Big J said, he don't sign off, no deal.  Like the Melo deal. 

The only, and I mean ONLY thing I look at holding off a Dwight to LA deal is this, he really gonna go all in with this follow Shaq thing? 

  Like, really, down to the damn T?  That's the only negative I see to Dwight actually joining us next year.  Everything else, we match up perfectly for a deal to land him. 



Edit
Or he wins a 3rd title, and plays that half year perfectly healthy, then how much does Orlando get for him?  Goes both ways. 

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Ya'll go ahead and tell me why Dwight wants to go play for the Denver Nuggets.  I'll wait all day for this one.

but he will go play for memphis??...........




   

It's not like they're giving him a 15 year contract.  They have one year, (at their option) to see what they want to do with him.  And someone will make offers for him, you can count on that. 


so he plays half a year with the magic and has knee problems again..... who is going to want him?


I'm sure there is more Dwight can relate to in Memphis than Denver. 

 Not to mention he's still will be in the south. I think Memphis core would be better than Denver's as well if a trade like that happened.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

These past 2 pages are filled with nonsense.

 

[youngtriz]

i never said he would go play for denver.. im just saying i would rather have nene over bynum... 7 footer or not...

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

These past 2 pages are filled with nonsense.

Have you seen the first 8000 pages of the Knicks thread?

 

[youngtriz]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

These past 2 pages are filled with nonsense.

Have you seen the first 8000 pages of the Knicks thread?