Official 2017 Knicks Offseason thread, Phil Jackson gone

[squatchnt]

Cleveland didn't tank, they sucked when LBJ left there's a difference. Minny and Philly are going to be bad for a while and players will get tired of it and bounce in FA. You can't draft chemistry..

 

[starboy]

The Lakers example is a bit flawed. Shaq is arguably the greatest big ever. There's nothing like that even in the horizon anytime soon. That's like a Lebron. Of course just simply adding one of those pieces will change your fortune tremendously. A core piece to the deal that brought Pau Gasol to town was Marc Gasol....whom the Lakers drafted. 

Pat Riley maneuvered the cap with some sort of sorcery to pull off that team. You'll probably never see anything like that again. The Celtics turned a top 5 pick into Ray Allen...and all of their young guys they drafted into KG. Either way you slice it...except for a few instances...it all goes through the draft.

 

[starboy]

 Minny and Philly are going to be bad for a while and players will get tired of it and bounce in FA. 

Did you just read the new CBA yesterday?

If not...you should.

Doubt very seriously those young guys are voluntarily going anywhere for a while.

 

[goldenchild9]

Cleveland didn't tank, they sucked when LBJ left there's a difference. Minny and Philly are going to be bad for a while and players will get tired of it and bounce in FA. You can't draft chemistry..

I guarantee this will happen.

 

[njavier03]

of course it goes through the draft. 98% of players in the league were drafted.

 

[squatchnt]

Cleveland didn't tank, they sucked when LBJ left there's a difference. Minny and Philly are going to be bad for a while and players will get tired of it and bounce in FA. You can't draft chemistry..

I guarantee this will happen.

KD and WB only put up with each other because of the success they had, imagine if they had been tanking...

 

[starboy]

of course it goes through the draft. 98% of players in the league were drafted.

I'm sure you're trying to be funny here but we're obviously talking about roster management as it pertains to structuring a contender. 

 

[starboy]

KD and WB only put up with each other because of the success they had, imagine if they had been tanking...

You do know they were really bad at first right? Which led to James Harden & Ibaka. 

They didn't need to "tank". They naturally were awful which put them in position to draft high again.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

LeBron only went back because they had Kyrie (a #1 draft pick) and traded Wiggins (a #1 draft pick) for Love.

Plus Tristan Thompson a #4 pick.

I'm not even proposing tanking and purposely losing, all I'm argueing is that getting higher picks is a much better path toward contention.

It's not even complicated, it is just math

 

[johnnyredstorm]

You know why the warriors and spurs are great? It's consistency. Trading Melo doesn't guarantee that. Keeping him and adding pieces around KP and him does.

 

[goldenchild9]

[thread="653116"]Of course if Bron doesn't go back, then Cleveland isn't what they are now. But he DID go back...and he DID so largely in part because the running mates and trade chips he needed were in place...thanks to the draft. [/thread]

The Lakers example is a bit flawed. Shaq is arguably the greatest big ever. There's nothing like that even in the horizon anytime soon. That's like a Lebron. Of course just simply adding one of those pieces will change your fortune tremendously. A core piece to the deal that brought Pau Gasol to town was Marc Gasol....whom the Lakers drafted. 

Pat Riley maneuvered the cap with some sort of sorcery to pull off that team. You'll probably never see anything like that again. The Celtics turned a top 5 pick into Ray Allen...and all of their young guys they drafted into KG. Either way you slice it...except for a few instances...it all goes through the draft.

How is that Lakers example flawed? Doesn't matter how good Shaq was, we're talking about how he was acquired. Marc Gasol was the 48th pick

And we just saw Miami happen again with Kevin Durant lol. It didn't happen all at once like it did with the Heat but it did happened via free agency and some unbelievably lucky contract balancing. Harden gone, Ibaka gone, Durant gone. Big name free agents will always bolt to bigger market teams with a winning culture. Our problem is we've sucked for so long and have a TERRIBLE fan and media culture that scares away talent.

Look at The Pelicans, AD is suffering over there, racking up injuries and frustration. I don't care who they draft this summer, they're still gonna suck far into the future. And if AD knows what's good for him he'll bounce.

I like what we're doing. We have a young power piece in KP, good bench pieces/potential trade bait in Holiday/KoQ/Kuz/C. Lee, we built a winning team that can attract a big name FA over the summer if we part ways with D. Rose, we have our draft pick. It's not like Melo is locked in to another 7 years. We're looking good. Why blow it all up? We have options.

I don't even know why we're talking about this when we're third in the East and still can get a lot better

 

[squatchnt]

KD and WB only put up with each other because of the success they had, imagine if they had been tanking...

You do know they were . bad at first right? Which led to James Harden & Ibaka. 

They didn't need to "tank". They naturally were awful which put them in position to draft high again.

They had 2 seasons where they didn't make the playoffs since drating Durant. His first and second. Ibaka was drafted with RW I thought and then Harden the next year. Like I said success kept them together. By that logic Philly and Minny should be making playoff appearances this year..

 

[starboy]

. By that logic Philly and Minny should be making playoff appearances this year..

Correct...IF the guys they had were as good as KD,RW, and Harden. Which they aren't. 

My point was...they didn't have to purposely lose. Which is what tanking is. They naturally were bad...which is what led them to Harden. 

Minnesota isn't tanking right now. They just are underperforming. Damn near every writer had them as a playoff team this season. 

 

[nick.]

Didn't Cleveland have like a 1% chance to get Kyrie & Wiggins?

 

[squatchnt]

. By that logic Philly and Minny should be making playoff appearances this year..

Correct...IF the guys they had were as good as KD,RW, and Harden. Which they aren't. 

My point was...they didn't have to purposely lose. Which is what tanking is. They naturally were bad...which is what led them to Harden. 

Minnesota isn't tanking right now. They just are underperforming. Damn near every writer had them as a playoff team this season. 

My point was lost somewhere in that Minny and Philly draft picks will get tired of underperforming and bounce unlike OKC's draft picks who started seeing success.

 

[phar0]

thread wilding

we just gotta make a solid pick this year to complement KP for the future

and nothing is guaranteed in the draft regardless of where you're picking 

look at some of the kings picks which were in the top 10 range 

 

[starboy]

My point was lost somewhere in that Minny and Philly draft picks will get tired of underperforming and bounce unlike OKC's draft picks who started seeing success.

That's OKC's fault. They could have given Harden his money. Even worse...they could have amnestied Perk and kept both Harden + Ibaka.

These dudes stand to make more by re-upping w/ the same team. 

The idea that Philly and Minny's young guys will leave because of underperforming isn't likely...because it's rare that young stars don't extend. They're about their money. If they leave it's because Minny or Philly decided to be cheap.

look at some of the kings picks which were in the top 10 range 

The Kings have historically picked poorly. The key is to draft well. Most of their picks have been head scratchers since Boogie. 

 

[Air Pope]

Seems like y'all having a NBA thread type convo now.

 

[goldenchild9]

Seems like y'all having a NBA thread type convo now.

True

 

[starboy]

It's still related to the Knicks and their future. 

****** just giving their views on what the best course of action for their future is and comparing their situation to other teams.

Obviously other teams are gonna come up. 

 

[Air Pope]

It's still related to the Knicks and their future. 

****** just giving their views on what the best course of action for their future is and comparing their situation to other teams.

Obviously other teams are gonna come up. 

Just look at your post before this. You mentioned nothing bout the Knicks fam. Imma let you cook though.

 

[squatchnt]

It's still related to the Knicks and their future. 

****** just giving their views on what the best course of action for their future is and comparing their situation to other teams.

Obviously other teams are gonna come up. 

It was fun while it lasted. I felt like it was Knicks talk but I guess this ain't the place for it. However, I rarely post in the NBA thread. Back to the Knicks talk. #trademelo

 

[kingfoamnyc]

Tank talk is so nauseating

 

[squatchnt]

It had moved beyond that and the discussion was how players respond to losing situations vs winning. No tank zone...

 

[starboy]

They couldn't tank if they wanted to anyway. Melo ain't waiving that no trade clause for ****. Barring something crazy, he there for the next 2 years