Official 2017 Knicks Offseason thread, Phil Jackson gone

[starboy]

The Warriors got incredibly lucky. Plain and simple. They didn't have any foresight to know their core would turn out the way they did.
 

Well they sort of did. When teams draft...it's based on potential. They're drafting with the hope in mind that each guy maxes out his potential. They constructed a very specific group who's games all complimented each other and each guy maxed out. That's great scouting as much as it is luck.

Same with OKC.

 

[njavier03]

i think they are lucky in a sense that their personalities are compatible and financially they got a huge break since steph was always injured. steph is still on a very cheap contract bc of his ankle injuries. had he always been healthy, there is no way that him, klay, and draymond would still be playing together. KD wouldn't even be a thought. look at the thunder, they had to max out KD, russ, and harden. obviously, that wasn't going to work out financially, so they had to trade harden. KD is a *****, so he ended up leaving. the warriors got LUCKY that their guys ended up being really good players AND are still on the team.

 

[nick.]

Curry: 7th overall
Klay: 11th overall
Draymond: 35th overall

The Warriors didn't tank for any of those guys. Curry & Klay are likely not the players they are today if GS doesn't trade Monta Ellis. Draymond is likely not who he is today if David Lee doesn't get hurt. Then factor in Curry's ankle problems that allowed GS to lock him up for the low, which eventually allowed them to sign Durant. There's definitely some luck involved with every championship team.

Credit the Warriors for knowing Curry would end up being better then Monta, though. Also credit their scouting and player development departments.

 

[the 718 truth]

I didn't take any offense to what Draymond said last night. And neither should KP.

Having that competitive nature is a good thing and it shouldn't be frowned upon. The league is soft enough as it is

We're not knocking competitive nature, or mad at what he said. Son just reaches a lot.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbss...-motivation-in-slights-that-hardly-exist/amp/

 

[the 718 truth]

All the stars really aligned for GSW and KD is soft so that helped too.

 

[kingfoamnyc]

Curry: 7th overall
Klay: 11th overall
Draymond: 35th overall

The Warriors didn't tank for any of those guys. Curry & Klay are likely not the players they are today if GS doesn't trade Monta Ellis. Draymond is likely not who he is today if David Lee doesn't get hurt. Then factor in Curry's ankle problems that allowed GS to lock him up for the low, which eventually allowed them to sign Durant. There's definitely some luck involved with every championship team.

Credit the Warriors for knowing Curry would end up being better then Monta, though. Also credit their scouting and player development departments.

Stop it dog your making too much sense.

 

[100027]

Curry: 7th overall
Klay: 11th overall
Draymond: 35th overall

The Warriors didn't tank for any of those guys. Curry & Klay are likely not the players they are today if GS doesn't trade Monta Ellis. Draymond is likely not who he is today if David Lee doesn't get hurt. Then factor in Curry's ankle problems that allowed GS to lock him up for the low, which eventually allowed them to sign Durant. There's definitely some luck involved with every championship team.

Credit the Warriors for knowing Curry would end up being better then Monta, though. Also credit their scouting and player development departments.

I mean there is of course luck involved with every team's success or failure.  But luck isn't THE reason for the Warriors success.  And it definitely isn't the reason for the Knicks' struggles the past two decades.

 

[goldenchild9]

David Robinson was a fraction of his prime self and was weeks away from turning 34...Tim Duncan was 23...when they won the chip.

Duncan was 33 couple seasons from retirement and Kawhi (the 15th pick) was 20/21...when they won again.

There are more way to win championships than tanking. We don't have many bad long term contracts. The team has financial flexibility for the first time in a long time.

Phil is trying to field the best team around KP and continually build on it.

If it fails, then he can completely scrap it and go in another direction. The only player with a long term contract and no trade value is Noah.

But right now the experiment is working. We're 3rd in the East and haven't even peaked yet. Yet y'all are happy when we lose and call for dismantling the core every chance y'all get.

Seems like there's no winning with our fanbase. If we suffer from the battered wife syndrome...we're one of those wives that punch and scratch their husband until they retaliate.

Let the process work itself out and enjoy the ride.

We're actually decent for once lol

 

[kingfoamnyc]

All I want is Rose to get healthy, Melo to up his FG %, more Kuz, Baker, and Holiday and finally less Noah and Pookie.

 

[starboy]

I should pull receipts on alot of yall that were putting that beta ***** Durant in your imaginary lineups when yall thought ya'll had a shot at him last summer 

David Robinson was a fraction of his prime self and was weeks away from turning 34...Tim Duncan was 23...when they won the chip.

Duncan was 33 couple seasons from retirement and Kawhi (the 15th pick) was 20/21...when they won again.

That's still building through the draft tho. Either way you slice it...the draft is the fastest track to improvement. They didn't tank on purpose...but Robinson missing being out for a year made SA bad enough to get that first pick to grab TD. They drafted Manu. They drafted Tony P. Credit their scouting department for that. They got Kawhi by trading George Hill, another late round gem. I wholeheartedly believe Dejounte Murray is going to be a star too so they may have another one.

Really goes to show how important scouting is. They don't have to tank...but shrewd scouting and proper player development could land the Knicks w/ some great young talent. 

 

[Mark Antony]

Honestly I haven't seen us play the kind of team ball that makes anyone comfortable yet. We got our wins on a combination of things, doesn't seem like we have a lot of stable, consistent repeatables in place yet.

 

[goldenchild9]

We have our Duncan in KP.

Manu was drafted in the second round.

They got TP @ 9 and Kawhi @ 15. We could trade up this year and get a top 20 pick that turns out to be a young star.

You can build through the draft without tanking.

 

[starboy]

We have our Duncan in KP.

Manu was drafted in the second round.

They got TP @ 9 and Kawhi @ 15. We could trade up this year and get a top 20 pick that turns out to be a young star.

You can build through the draft without tanking.

Tony Parker was the 28th pick. 

 

[ny mavurs]

We have our Duncan in KP.

Manu was drafted in the second round.

They got TP @ 9 and Kawhi @ 15. We could trade up this year and get a top 20 pick that turns out to be a young star.

You can build through the draft without tanking.

Tony was drafted late in the first and was an unknown 18 year old at the time

 

[goldenchild9]

We have our Duncan in KP.


Manu was drafted in the second round.


They got TP @ 9 and Kawhi @ 15. We could trade up this year and get a top 20 pick that turns out to be a young star.


You can build through the draft without tanking.

Tony Parker was the 28th pick. 

You're right. Typo.

Further proving my point.

Only lottery pick they got was TD and they built a dynasty with that one selection.

That's what successful teams do. Philly and Minnesota are the kings of tanking and look how successful they are...now they have a log jam of young talent at the same positions and won't even be able to resign all of them.

They're gonna continue to stink and it won't be on purpose this time.

They're still gonna need veteran all-star players to make any progress.

Lakers too.

 

[kingfoamnyc]

I should pull receipts on alot of yall that were putting that beta ***** Durant in your imaginary lineups when yall thought ya'll had a shot at him last summer 

And your point is ? Everyone who had cap space last year wanted Durant and tried to see how he would fit with their team.

Washington did it. Wall/Beal/Durant

Knicks did it. Rose/Melo/Durant/Porzingis

LA did it. KD/ who cares

GS did it. Steph/Klay/Durant/Draymond

He could be the lamest dude in the universe but no one is turning down a Top 2/3 player in the NBA to play on their team because he's a cornball. I struggle to see your point

 

[squatchnt]

I'm not crazy about Durant or James but see either of them as a benefit to any basketball team. I remember cats saying they didn't want lebron during his FA, but get excited when we signed Rose. I'd take James harden no defense playing *** in a heartbeat...

 

[worldbeefreeg]

We have our Duncan in KP.

Manu was drafted in the second round.

They got TP @ 9 and Kawhi @ 15. We could trade up this year and get a top 20 pick that turns out to be a young star.

You can build through the draft without tanking.

Your right...but it's much harder.

It's easier to draft a good player in the top ten than it is in the top 25.

Knicks got KP @ 4. Their two picks other recent first round picks have been Jerian Grant and Tim Hardaway JR.

Big gap between those guys.

And the whole Min/PHi aren't good point is stupid. They are young. Both of those teams will eventually be very, very good.

Also, Golden State did tank. They deliberately tanked to get Harrison Barnes when they were in danger of losing their draft pick.

 

[kingfoamnyc]

I'm not crazy about Durant or James but see either of them as a benefit to any basketball team. I remember cats saying they didn't want lebron during his FA, but get excited when we signed Rose. I'd take James harden no defense playing *** in a heartbeat...

I hate basically everyone who's not a Knick besides Westbrook. If Lebron or Durant actually played for us all that **** goes to the way side. The Knicks winning takes priority over anything else

 

[kingfoamnyc]

And the whole Min/PHi aren't good point is stupid. They are young. Both of those teams will eventually be very, very good.

I think it's stupid to assume they will eventually be "very very good"

 

[goldenchild9]

No they won't.

Maybe in 7 years or something when their rosters are completely turned over but no time soon.

Lavine and/or Wiggins is gonna leave via FA. They still need a good PG and a bunch of other pieces.

Philly has a better chance of being good but they also have to seriously retool that roster, hope that Simmons and Embiid don't clash and out mature together properly in the next 5 years or so. Hope they get complementary pieces for Okafor who's likely gonna be traded.

Neither one of those teams is anywhere close to being good anytime soon.

They have a bunch of young talent on paper. That's about it.

Wolves also had KG x Steph at one point too.

Nothing is guaranteed in the NBA.

 

[starboy]

You're right. Typo.

Further proving my point.

Only lottery pick they got was TD and they built a dynasty with that one selection.

That's what successful teams do. Philly and Minnesota are the kings of tanking and look how successful they are...now they have a log jam of young talent at the same positions and won't even be able to resign all of them.

They're gonna continue to stink and it won't be on purpose this time.

They're still gonna need veteran all-star players to make any progress.

Lakers too.

My point is that the draft is STILL the fast track to improvement. The jury is still out on Philly and Minnesota. It's not like this has been a 10 year process for them. Not sure where the logjam is in Minnesota. Philly went about theirs in a weird way but it looks like they may have hit on Embiid. If Simmons is a star...then the process was worth it. Noel/Okafor is going to get them something in return. 

I bought up San Antonio to prove that scouting/player development is extremely important. None of San Antonio's core were "Veteran All Stars" that came through Free Agency. Their scouting department is second to none, so they have the formula on how to hit w/ those picks. Even guys like Patty Mills and Tiago Splitter came through the draft.

Look at Cleveland. Lebron literally only left so that they can bottom out. That led to Kyrie Irving, Tristan Thompson, and Wiggins/Bennett turned into Love. And they used their one of their other draft chips in Waiters to bring Smith/Shumpert in. 

Of course you need your veteran guys but there's a process that needs to happen before that. Which is why the development of guys like Baker and Hermangomez are more important that it appears on paper. Great teams have to HIT on those types of picks. The future is bright w/ KP but if I were Knicks fan and I could press a button to be bad enough to have another high pick in a loaded draft...I'd damn sure do it. 

 

[squatchnt]

I'm not crazy about Durant or James but see either of them as a benefit to any basketball team. I remember cats saying they didn't want lebron during his FA, but get excited when we signed Rose. I'd take James harden no defense playing *** in a heartbeat...

I hate basically everyone who's not a Knick besides Westbrook. If Lebron or Durant actually played for us all that **** goes to the way side. The Knicks winning takes priority over anything else

eff Westbrook as well but if we had a chance to sign him I wouldn't be mad. My knick fandom keeps Melo out of my sights to keep it 100...

starboy LBJ left because he was sick of Cleveland and to win rings. If you think he left so the Cavs could get picks you should start with the NBA is scripted rhetoric I've seen lately..

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Saying Minny won't be good is pretty presumptious. Those guys are all pretty good and not even one of them is even 22

And they have room to keep all of them for now. They also drafted Dunn and have the chances through other picks to add another couple pieces to the core. Same with Philly.

You keep giving examples of teams that all value the draft.

Using San Antonio as an example is cool but they are the best ran franchise in sports probably. They have the best player development, best ownership and best coach. None of those are things that we have. So it might sound great but its not particularly achievable especially in New York where the media runs with whatever narrative.

 

[goldenchild9]

If LeBron doesn't come back in free agency, they are another example of a failed tank.

They would've gotten a Kyrie that would've never hit his ceiling without Bron, an all time bust in Bennett and a shaky Wiggins. They wouldn't even be a playoff team. FA LeBron (and our front office giving away JR) is what brought all of that together.

Example of a team that tanked and built a winner around the lottery pieces they tanked for or the players they got from trading them?

Lakers got 1 big pick in Kobe, and got Shaq from FA.

For their second run, they got Artest, Odom, Gasol from FA and trades (robberies).

Celtics, free agency.

Miami, Free Agency.

Spurs/Warriors great scouting and late draft picks.

All the teams that I've witness tank have been bad franchises and remain that way. Tanking year after year.

Show me these successful tank teams.

We did our tank, we got out phenom. Now we even have another potential young talent in Hernangomez (who we didn't tank to get) It's time to put in work. Get better, build a winning culture, draft well, good scouting etc.

Tanking ain't gonna guarantee nothing but a losing season.

You stand as much risk, if not more of drafting a player that bounces once their contract is up or clashes with your other young star, as you do becoming a contender.

Where are these successful tanks?