aepps20
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- Feb 8, 2004
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Spence just seems to get better with each fight.
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- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Bobby Layne,
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- Sep 28, 2003
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I think we know why, but still impressive nonetheless
- Apr 2, 2014
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aepps20
Supporter
- Feb 8, 2004
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Working off the jab in the early rounds?
- Sep 28, 2003
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He is clearly juiced to the gills and on top of that has some way of cutting tons of weight then rehydrating. That and being in his prime makes him very dangerous. The way he's looking now, it would be man down for nearly every welterweight in history. I'm not being a hater I do enjoy his fights, but I am calling it the way it is.
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Lake Shore Drive
formerly slp product
- Feb 8, 2005
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^
Ugly truth about the sport but that’s exactly what it is with all our favorite fighters.
Cats are cutting 20-30 lbs like nothing!
I enjoy watching Spence and honestly don’t think anyone at 147 can see him. But no way does he run through GGG.
Ugly truth about the sport but that’s exactly what it is with all our favorite fighters.
Cats are cutting 20-30 lbs like nothing!
I enjoy watching Spence and honestly don’t think anyone at 147 can see him. But no way does he run through GGG.
- Oct 5, 2017
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So spence gets the W vs bud at 147??
I dont see the same 40 bud at 47
I dont see the same 40 bud at 47
- Apr 2, 2014
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So why is WBC the only outfit doing regular testing? Why won't the other orgs step up and do VADA / USADA testing for all their fights with ranked fighters?
- Jun 18, 2006
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Juiced to the gills based on what though? He looks like he has a little gyno going on but there's plenty of folks that have that without being on roids. No bacne that I can see. No huge traps. No huge weight gain from his olympic days. As a matter of fact he's been a welterweight since he was a teenager in his golden gloves days, makes sense he would be a big welterweight now. Cuts just as much weight as Brook, Thurman and Porter, they all claim to be walking around at 168 or more. Just curious why you think he particularly is on them, besides of course the power
And let's be clear, I wouldn't be slightly surprised that ANY boxer was on them, as a matter of fact I'm sure alot of them are using something to get an edge. But I'm still curious why you think it's clear that he is
- Sep 25, 2004
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I like Thurman, but he knows that strap is on borrowed time.
I don’t necessarily think he’s ducking, I just think he wishes he had enough time like Garcia to hold that strap hostage.
true words. Thurman def wants to hold that strap for a bit longer. I know he said he's not afraid of losing that 0 but he def doesnt want to have to go against Spence to have a possibility of losing it
...nobody does
- Sep 28, 2003
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There are different kinds of PED's, not all add size or muscle. The side effects can vary from person to person. There are some improvements to his physique over the years, but that can be the progression from being a young man to a grown man. However, I have serious doubts that what we are seeing from Spence is all natural. It has more to do with the way he's fighting and his power. His punches have a unique thud that do not sound normal. In the Kell Brook fight, he was willing to eat five or so punches to get one in. It's usually not a good idea to do that, unless he knows he has a decided advantage. Spence knew it was only a matter of time, as if he was chopping down a tree. The boxer that first comes to mind who had this kind of approach was prime Margarito. Go figure.
I am not picking on just Spence. Matter of fact, I am just as certain that his opponent on Saturday was taking something he wasn't supposed to even though he was caught before. Someone brought up that Spence appears to be getting better in each fight. So whatever he is doing or ingesting is highly effective. I don't want to make it seem that I think all of Spence's success is attributed to PED's. That is certainly not the case, there has to be hard work behind the scenes.
- Sep 25, 2004
- 9,865
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It’s either that or Spence is just a once in a lifetime fighter and we are witnessing greatness.
I hope he’s not using PEDs or it’ll catch-up with him.
I hope he’s not using PEDs or it’ll catch-up with him.
- Dec 28, 2003
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This came up several times at the crib on Saturday.
- Jun 18, 2006
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I don’t think Errol was so much taking “five” to give one against Kell, he had a slow start and Kell was just out boxing him early. Errol ain’t Margarito, he’s slicker than Margarito for sure. But yeah that pressure style where he just keeps going because he knows when he gets to you he’s gonna hurt you, yeah he definitely has that. GGG is another one that takes that approach.
But yeah who knows man. Nobody can convince me that Manny & JMM weren’t both on something, would not be slightly surprised to hear that Floyd was too, GGG either, BHop either, we already know about Shane & Roy, basically it wouldn’t surprise me with any top fighter. Errol could very well be on em too, wouldn’t be shocked at all.
- Aug 22, 2013
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Floyd was definitely on. There is definitive evidence out there proving that.
Jarrett Hurd is the Black Margarito
Jarrett Hurd is the Black Margarito
- Jun 18, 2006
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Floyd was definitely on. There is definitive evidence out there proving that.
Jarrett Hurd is the Black Margarito
What’s the definitive evidence?
And I rock with Hurd, that’s the hometown guy. I think Hurd just has a chin and power while not being the greatest technical boxer. If he eventually gets up against Jermell it’s probably gonna be his downfall, but he’s fun to watch regardless
- Aug 22, 2013
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Testosterone and epitestosterone are naturally occurring hormones. Testosterone is performance enhancing. Epitestosterone is not.
A normal testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio is slightly more than 1-to-1. Conte says that one recent study of the general population “placed the average T-E ratio for whites at 1.2-to-1 and for blacks at 1.3-to-1.”
Under WADA standards, a testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio of up to 4-to-1 is acceptable. That allows for any reasonable variation in an athlete’s natural testosterone level (which, for an elite athlete, might be particularly high). If the ratio is above 4-to-1, an athlete is presumed to be doping.
Some athletes who use exogenous testosterone game the system by administering exogenous epitestosterone to drive their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio down beneath the permitted ceiling. This can be done by injection or by the application of epitestosterone as a cream. In the absence of a CIR test, this masks the use of synthetic testosterone.
But there’s a catch. If an athlete tries to manipulate his or her testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio, it is difficult to balance the outcome. If an athlete uses too much epitestosterone - and the precise amount is difficult to calibrate - the result can be an abnormally low T-E ratio.
“In and of itself,” Conte explains, “an abnormally low T-E ratio is not proof of doping. The ratio can vary for the same athlete from test to test. But an abnormally low T-E ratio is a red flag. And if you’re serious about the testing, the next thing you do [after a low T-E ratio test result] is administer a CIR test on the same sample.”
Earlier this year, in response to a request for documents, the Nevada State Athletic Commission produced two lab reports listing the testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio on tests that it (not USADA) had overseen on Floyd Mayweather. In one instance, blood and urine samples were taken from Mayweather on Aug. 18, 2011 (prior to his Sept. 17 fight against Victor Ortiz). In the other instance, blood and urine samples were taken from Mayweather on April 3, 2013 (prior to his May 4 fight against Robert Guerrero).
Mayweather’s testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the April 3, 2013, sample was 0.80. His testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the Aug. 18, 2011, sample was 0.69.
https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada
- Aug 22, 2013
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blackcease
, nah I didn't mean that as an insult. I like Hurd too. lil Charlo was struggling with the likes John Jackson before catching him. He's got a chance with his chin and power.
- Mar 20, 2017
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Charlo would drop Hurd fast
- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,179
- 1,322
Testosterone and epitestosterone are naturally occurring hormones. Testosterone is performance enhancing. Epitestosterone is not.
A normal testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio is slightly more than 1-to-1. Conte says that one recent study of the general population “placed the average T-E ratio for whites at 1.2-to-1 and for blacks at 1.3-to-1.”
Under WADA standards, a testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio of up to 4-to-1 is acceptable. That allows for any reasonable variation in an athlete’s natural testosterone level (which, for an elite athlete, might be particularly high). If the ratio is above 4-to-1, an athlete is presumed to be doping.
Some athletes who use exogenous testosterone game the system by administering exogenous epitestosterone to drive their testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio down beneath the permitted ceiling. This can be done by injection or by the application of epitestosterone as a cream. In the absence of a CIR test, this masks the use of synthetic testosterone.
But there’s a catch. If an athlete tries to manipulate his or her testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio, it is difficult to balance the outcome. If an athlete uses too much epitestosterone - and the precise amount is difficult to calibrate - the result can be an abnormally low T-E ratio.
“In and of itself,” Conte explains, “an abnormally low T-E ratio is not proof of doping. The ratio can vary for the same athlete from test to test. But an abnormally low T-E ratio is a red flag. And if you’re serious about the testing, the next thing you do [after a low T-E ratio test result] is administer a CIR test on the same sample.”
Earlier this year, in response to a request for documents, the Nevada State Athletic Commission produced two lab reports listing the testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio on tests that it (not USADA) had overseen on Floyd Mayweather. In one instance, blood and urine samples were taken from Mayweather on Aug. 18, 2011 (prior to his Sept. 17 fight against Victor Ortiz). In the other instance, blood and urine samples were taken from Mayweather on April 3, 2013 (prior to his May 4 fight against Robert Guerrero).
Mayweather’s testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the April 3, 2013, sample was 0.80. His testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the Aug. 18, 2011, sample was 0.69.
https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada
Just to play devil's advocate, here's an excerpt from an interview with Don Caitlin, the founder of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory ( https://www.mmafighting.com/2015/1/9/7520867/10-lessons-from-the-jon-jones-drug-testing-debacle):
So basically those low T:E ratios can mean something...or they can mean nothing at all.
Also keep in mind combat athletes, especially boxers, do roadwork every morning that can go anywhere from 3-6 miles usually, and then they follow it up with even MORE cardio in training and sparring. Moderate cardio can increase testosterone a little but running for long distances and training cardio for long periods of time is known to decrease testosterone levels.
Weight cutting is also known to drop test levels.
Getting hit in the head is ALSO known to drop test levels
So fighters typically have a perfect combination of **** that'll have a 20 something year old man walking around with the testosterone levels of somebodies grandfather (the exact reason Lamont Peterson claimed he got prescribed testosterone by his doctor prior to the Amir Khan fight).
So basically what I'm saying is those T:E ratios aren't a smoking gun because lowered testosterone is almost a direct result of the professional boxing lifestyle.
BUT having said all that, that's also why I personally think damn near every top fighter around is either a genetic freak (possible) or has probably been on something, especially if they're still elite years and years into their careers. The lifestyle is just too grueling on your body, and your hormones specifically, to keep getting by as an elite fighter without being a freak or being on a little something, or maybe both. And I give young dudes like Spence a little more of a pass because youth, but even that has limits.
Ok gotcha
. Yeah I think Hurd can definitely make it interesting for sure. I'd be rooting for him to win but both Charlo's seem like they're steppin it up another level lately. I guess we'll see though
- Aug 22, 2013
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Even with the dips as a result of training 0.8 and 0.69 are still abnormally low for an elite athlete like Floyd. 1 to 1.3 is the average, Floyd is not an average human being.
You don't look like this at 40 suffering from low T, and/or having average to below average genetics.
With that being said I don't really care one way or another. I'm of the opinion that most athletes across all sports are on something. The only thing that ever bother my about Floyd was the hypocrisy regarding the subject.
You don't look like this at 40 suffering from low T, and/or having average to below average genetics.
With that being said I don't really care one way or another. I'm of the opinion that most athletes across all sports are on something. The only thing that ever bother my about Floyd was the hypocrisy regarding the subject.
Lake Shore Drive
formerly slp product
- Feb 8, 2005
- 7,336
- 2,445
Lets not get that $May discussion going again.
Watching that Peterson fight, reminded how he got destroyed by Lucas.
I may be in the minority here but I really wanna see what "Maquina" has left. He's looked sharp in training.
I see Linares beating Gesta, hopefully setting it up for Mikey.
Watching that Peterson fight, reminded how he got destroyed by Lucas.
I may be in the minority here but I really wanna see what "Maquina" has left. He's looked sharp in training.
I see Linares beating Gesta, hopefully setting it up for Mikey.
- Sep 28, 2003
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If Tewa Kiram is decent he could beat Matthysse. From what I've seen of him, I am not impressed especially again lesser opposition. So if he does win, it is more about being in the right place at the right time. I thought Matthysse has been shot since post-Danny Garcia.
- May 2, 2012
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- Jan 22, 2015
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Terence Crawford posted a photo of himself on the scale at 177 lbs so he's going to be cutting 30 lbs to 147. I dont think Spence walks around more than that right?
