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how does goku go from "if we leave he'll be sure to win" as super buu, but gets ready to beat kid buu in a 1vs1 in ssj3 if kid buu is stronger?
Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed
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Buu calling himself the strongest Majin with Gotenks absorbed just loses all creditability in my eyesabsorbing piccolo didnt make buu weaker, the fusion wearing off is what made him weaker. thats a false equivalency
two examples from two different forms of super buu. Super Buu Gohan absorbed is stronger than both examples. I wish I could find official scans but this basics are about the same.
You all need to pay attention to the minor details. Elder Supreme Kai clearly states, and Kebito Kai confirms, that when kid Buu absorbed the other Kais their kind spirits weakened Buu specifically stated as "brought his power down. This is seemed to be proven when Buu splits in two and the Evil Buu easily overpowers Majin Buu. This means that the absorption of piccolo, gohan, goten, and trunks would have to overcome that initial weakening and then power him up more. This may be specific to Kais However it could be argued that due to Gohan and Goten's pure spirits the power increase would not be enough. It is even possible that Trunks purity could affect buu negatively as he is a child and displays none of the traits of his father but rather acts more like Gohan and Goku when he was a child. Also Piccolo was fused with Kami and Nail whose kind spirits seemed to have overcome the evil that once existed meaning that Piccolo himself could be pure. So it is quite possible that while they absorbtion makes Super Buu stronger than his base Super Buu form, it does not mean that he is necessarily stronger than Kid Buu.
You're acting as if they were confident they could beat Kid Buu with no issues
They just had no other choice, no options, didn't wanna fuse and no where to run. They had to confront him head on and still got molly whopped the whole time
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When Buu was fighting dead Vegeta in the other world was probably the most nervous I've ever been in the series
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everything in bold is an assumption.Buu calling himself the strongest Majin with Gotenks absorbed just loses all creditability in my eyes
You all need to pay attention to the minor details. Elder Supreme Kai clearly states, and Kebito Kai confirms, that when kid Buu absorbed the other Kais their kind spirits weakened Buu specifically stated as "brought his power down. This is seemed to be proven when Buu splits in two and the Evil Buu easily overpowers Majin Buu. This means that the absorption of piccolo, gohan, goten, and trunks would have to overcome that initial weakening and then power him up more. This may be specific to Kais However it could be argued that due to Gohan and Goten's pure spirits the power increase would not be enough. It is even possible that Trunks purity could affect buu negatively as he is a child and displays none of the traits of his father but rather acts more like Gohan and Goku when he was a child. Also Piccolo was fused with Kami and Nail whose kind spirits seemed to have overcome the evil that once existed meaning that Piccolo himself could be pure. So it is quite possible that while they absorbtion makes Super Buu stronger than his base Super Buu form, it does not mean that he is necessarily stronger than Kid Buu.
like i said, before ONE kai made buu weaker, and that was the grand supreme kai and it was specifically stated that it was due to his kindness. buu only absorbed 2 kais and he killed the other 2. the grand supreme kai was the only one EVER stated to make him weaker. nothing in the manga or anime says that absorbing southern supreme kai (the strongest kai at the time) made him any weaker.
thats exactly what it was though, goku explicitly said and showed at many points that he couldnt take super buu, but as kid buu he was confident that he could fight him, until he realized he had too much taken out of him in the fighting before. Remember they turned down using the patora earings a second time when they got back to supreme kais planet for the final fight. but when goku got to earth before boo destroyed it goku was literally looking to fuse with ANYONE (tien who was passed out and hercule) after gohan was absorbed.
and just to add more spice to this debate
vegito>super buu(gohan absorbed)>super buu (gotenks absorbed)>mystic gohan>ssj3 gotenks> ssj3 goku ≈ kid buu>fat buu>vegeta
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buuhan is the strongest buu- only vegeto, beerus, and whis could've defeated him... buuhan would've destroyed that spirit bomb goku sent to kid buu
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this.
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When Buu was fighting dead Vegeta in the other world was probably the most nervous I've ever been in the series
Yes, cause if he died again, it was game over for the prince.
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Alright man, good debate, we both made some good points but at the end of the day its one of those things where there is no definitive answer so let's just kill it here
MVP
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There is a definitive answer though.
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ill close with something i found online
"Actually no, what he states is that's what he had been thinking of doing, but that he hadn't done so yet.
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
So, by Goku's own admission, he's stated he hasn't had the chance to try it. He had been considering it for a bit, but by the time he had, he had drained too much power to pull it off.
The translation I gave is from the original manga, as per Herms' translation of the line (and corroborated by others). Why Viz went with a translation that suggests Goku actually had been trying is unknown, but the original line makes it clear that he had yet to actually attempt it. By the the time he had actually realized that was how he should try and destroy Buu, he had burned too much of his energy to actually try."
and thats in regards to the manga panel between goku and vegeta
OG Manga> any source that isnt toriyamas words
Also found this. which makes a good point for scaling. gohan tossed super buu, and goku says theyre no match for him. combine that with that is said above. pretty much puts super buu over kid buu
"Actually no, what he states is that's what he had been thinking of doing, but that he hadn't done so yet.
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
So, by Goku's own admission, he's stated he hasn't had the chance to try it. He had been considering it for a bit, but by the time he had, he had drained too much power to pull it off.
The translation I gave is from the original manga, as per Herms' translation of the line (and corroborated by others). Why Viz went with a translation that suggests Goku actually had been trying is unknown, but the original line makes it clear that he had yet to actually attempt it. By the the time he had actually realized that was how he should try and destroy Buu, he had burned too much of his energy to actually try."
and thats in regards to the manga panel between goku and vegeta
OG Manga> any source that isnt toriyamas words
Also found this. which makes a good point for scaling. gohan tossed super buu, and goku says theyre no match for him. combine that with that is said above. pretty much puts super buu over kid buu
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i think the biggest cause in differnece of opinion the sources we base our opinions off of. the English dub is like only ranks above the movies when it comes to canon so I dont use it unless it just backs up what the manga says
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Oh boy.
The Buu conversation
The Buu conversation
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welp here comes the kid buu vs super buu argument
see yall sunday
It Was Quiet For Over A Year, Thought Is Never See It Brought Up Again
So Happy To See This Thread Back On Schedule
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new spoilers... a lot of ppl gonna be happy with it... whew
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LETS ******* GO MAN VEGETA DEFEATING A GOD HE AINT PLAYING WITH YALL
Top Boy
formerly jay patt
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I don't even need to say anything.
Y'all know what time it is.
Like I said before, Team Vegeta is welcoming all newcomers.
Drop that disappointment you're supporting and get you a winner. Treat yourself in 2018.
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Never got an answer to my 17 question.
How powerful is he... in order to hang as he is...
Or does the infinite stamina make that much of a difference in battle?
How powerful is he... in order to hang as he is...
Or does the infinite stamina make that much of a difference in battle?
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Hey guys, big time Dragonball and DBZ fan that was soured from the series when GT started. Been told Super is worth the watch but there's some filler early, I know about Beerus and I know Freiza comes back and saw like an episode of the tournament that goes down. Where is a good starting point for this series? I've heard it has a slow start like GT and would like to bypass whatever I don't have to watch because I suck at tv these days.
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If you haven’t seen Battle of Gods or Resurrection F then you might as well start from the beginning
If you have seen them then start at episode 28
Top Boy
formerly jay patt
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I like 17, but like Freeza his current strength level has no logical explanation.
I'd wait for the manga to address it if you really want an answer but even that prolly won't help much. Goku had to go SS3 to fight 17 in the manga which puts 17 far beyond Cell.
Seeing as how he's done no actual training from what we've been told and his only enemies were humans which are less than ants in comparison to himself.....
My personal guess would be that it's a mixture of both. The infinite energy and Super's nonsensical scaling.
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