Official Game 2: 05/06 Houston Rockets @ Los Angeles Lakers 7:30PM PST TNT

[CP1708]

Not sayin the NBA is dirty or anything, but could that representative of the league sayin in a pre-decision statement that Kobe appeared to hit Artest near theR, could that be a preemptive ploy to let Kobe off the hook so they don't have to suspend one of their big money makers?

Since the R is technically below the shoulders and would not warrant an automatic suspension.

Not that Stern would do something like that, just throwin it out there.

 

[sohi 23]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Taking cheap shots and taunting after plays doesn't make you tough.

Lakers seem to be over compensating. The fact of the matter is the Lakers do not want to make this a physical grind it out series.

They don't want it with the Rockets like that.

And now it won't be.
After what happened yesterday, the refs aren't going to let the physical type of play continue for the rest of the series.
And obviously, that plays to the Lakers favor.

I'm not going to say anything about if anyone should get suspended, but it's ridiculous how much someone will let the number of a player influence amajority of their judgement... both ways.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

Originally Posted by bijald0331

how can you say that ariza is a good 3 point shooter by just taking a 5 game sample?? he only shot 32% from the field in the regular reason...have you heard of the field of statistics. anybody can get hot...

So is Artest but you aren't saying anything about his inability from long range.

Actually, Artest shot 40% from 3's this year. The same % of his regular field goal %. Word to Rafer Alston... Haha.

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by franchise3

@ this dude knightingale or whatever it is. Biggest Laker homer out the bunch. I used to think Fro B was but I realized dude was just trash talking and trying to get under people's skins.

But here you have knightengale saying the Rockets choke if they lose the series. What happens if the Lakers lose the series?

Also these Rockets scrubs are showing a lot more grit than an All-Star, one first place DPOTY Pau Gasol and a 6'10 can do everything point foward in Lamar, so far.

Be real, Lakers fans can't be happy with their play

I feel a bit better about their play last night, but I will say I am not completely happy with it. I think they played better defensively than thenumbers will suggest. I think they got on the boards and got fast break buckets so I am happy with that. the reason i can't say i am completely happy is itis only game 2 and I need to see more of the same in the games going forward and less of the half !@! effort they gave in game one.

 

[Lizakers]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Lizaker4Lizife:

---

23ska909red02:

---

Craftsy21:

---

To the rest of the kobe haters out there - i'm done for now, you guys are ridiculous... the guy who asked where Ron was supposed to put his hands if not on the back of a players neck?

It's so funny to me that out of the two guys you could support - Kobe or Ron.. you guys choose the one who is just a manic hothead... you defend him running over at Kobe and getting right in his face after the play and getting thrown out of the game. Imagine if Kobe pulled that against somebody else... the backlash that would take place here.

Do people no longer judge a persons actions anymore? They just check the name on your jersey and say pass or fail? You guys are a joke that let your emotions get that tied up on a person who doesn't even know you.

On the question 'A player isn't judged by his actions anymore?', I have a question: What's more telling about a person, their previous actions or their most recent actions?

Because Ron has been flying under the radar for quite some time now, and if you really look at what he did, you'll see it really wasn't that bad. He got elbowed in the neck area, that we know. He immediately went to a REF, not Kobe, that we know (watch the replay). Then after talking to the ref on the sideline OPPOSITE Kobe, Artest seems still frustrated with being elbowed in the throat, and the ref is apparently going to do nothing about it, that we know. Then he runs over to the other side of the court to Kobe, and according to him (Ron), he says something to the effect of 'Dude, you need to chill with all this 'elbow to the face and neck' stuff. We can't be doing that to each other.' Me personally, I believe Ron when he says that's what he said.

So he gets elbowed in the neck area, goes to a ref, talks for a few seconds, sees that nothing is going to be done to stop Kobe from doing that again, goes over to Kobe to tell him himself 'Don't do that again', and he gets tossed.

Honestly, I feel bad for him. He handled it the right way the first time, and I don't have a problem with how he confronted Kobe... IF he's being truthful in telling us what was said. Now, if he's lying, and it were revealed that he said something confrontational, then I don't have a problem at all with him getting the boot.

wrong. you must not have seen the proper camera angle to make a judgement. you are wrong, he lied to the refs, he was NOT hit in the neck or throad
Show me. Otherwise, all I have is your word; all have is you telling me I was wrong.

Show me.

I know from the angle I posted before, it DEFINITELY looks like Kobe elbowed Ron in the NECK AREA. If I'm wrong about that, that's fine, but show me.


they showed on some of the news shows, its not on youtube so I can't "show you".
but the fact that even ESPN now is reporting that the elbow hit Ron above the R on his jersey is proof enough that the league looked at all camera angles.

Reminds me of another phantom elbow that Raja Bell took a few years ago from Kobe, people love to pretend they got hit with an elbow to get Kobe suspended, itsfunny

from http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4149018

On the Bryant-Artest play, the two were battling for rebounding position when Bryant struck Artest with his elbow. Artest immediately began gesturing and arguing that he had been elbowed in the neck, but replays appeared to show Bryant's elbow striking Artest on his upper chest, just above the "R" on Artest's Rockets jersey

 

[daytona 5000]

I can't wait to see Kobe walking with his head down, knowing that he failed AGAIN just like last year.

 

[pretty toney]

Ya'll can calm down with all this "so and so" is going to body "so and so"...them +@$%#$ are NOT trying to fight out there. They'llget all amped and it get in each other faces but NONE of em are going to actually get busy...especially in the playoffs.

 

[acbboyz84]

SMh this thread went 108 pages with 50 pages

 

[Sam Darnold Heisman #8]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Lizaker4Lizife:

---

23ska909red02:

---

Craftsy21:

---

To the rest of the kobe haters out there - i'm done for now, you guys are ridiculous... the guy who asked where Ron was supposed to put his hands if not on the back of a players neck?

It's so funny to me that out of the two guys you could support - Kobe or Ron.. you guys choose the one who is just a manic hothead... you defend him running over at Kobe and getting right in his face after the play and getting thrown out of the game. Imagine if Kobe pulled that against somebody else... the backlash that would take place here.

Do people no longer judge a persons actions anymore? They just check the name on your jersey and say pass or fail? You guys are a joke that let your emotions get that tied up on a person who doesn't even know you.

On the question 'A player isn't judged by his actions anymore?', I have a question: What's more telling about a person, their previous actions or their most recent actions?

Because Ron has been flying under the radar for quite some time now, and if you really look at what he did, you'll see it really wasn't that bad. He got elbowed in the neck area, that we know. He immediately went to a REF, not Kobe, that we know (watch the replay). Then after talking to the ref on the sideline OPPOSITE Kobe, Artest seems still frustrated with being elbowed in the throat, and the ref is apparently going to do nothing about it, that we know. Then he runs over to the other side of the court to Kobe, and according to him (Ron), he says something to the effect of 'Dude, you need to chill with all this 'elbow to the face and neck' stuff. We can't be doing that to each other.' Me personally, I believe Ron when he says that's what he said.

So he gets elbowed in the neck area, goes to a ref, talks for a few seconds, sees that nothing is going to be done to stop Kobe from doing that again, goes over to Kobe to tell him himself 'Don't do that again', and he gets tossed.

Honestly, I feel bad for him. He handled it the right way the first time, and I don't have a problem with how he confronted Kobe... IF he's being truthful in telling us what was said. Now, if he's lying, and it were revealed that he said something confrontational, then I don't have a problem at all with him getting the boot.

wrong. you must not have seen the proper camera angle to make a judgement. you are wrong, he lied to the refs, he was NOT hit in the neck or throad
Show me. Otherwise, all I have is your word; all have is you telling me I was wrong.

Show me.

I know from the angle I posted before, it DEFINITELY looks like Kobe elbowed Ron in the NECK AREA. If I'm wrong about that, that's fine, but show me.


what the hell is the neck area? from his upper thorax to the lower trachea? if youre saying that ron got checked right in the neck than show me some video.

 

[franchise3]

we got BigMike here a Bulls fan, but now they're out, cheering on the Lakers, calling people out. %+%! outta here.

What I mean about the Rockets getting into the Lakers heads, when has ANYONE seen Kobe yell he can't guard me THE WHOLE GAME? Granted, dude was STROKING itlast night.

But, let's be real.

After game 1 you have TNT talking about whether the Lakers are mentally tough enough. You have LA Times writer Bill Plaschke writing how the Lakers gotbullied. We've heard the talk about Shane's defense a whole year now, going back to last year when the Rockets won game 22 on them, on national TV,with Shane's hands in his face. Then you hear about Ron saying Roy's the best. Then you have Shane and Ron announced on game day, both 2nd team alldefense.

All this, and Kobe comes out firing. Staring into the stands, yelling he can't guard me to Doug Collins of all people, the whole 9. Yeah, Kobe says thatall the time, but for a whole 48 mins? Nope.

You have LO, ghost game 1, not doing much in the first half, on Scola, who didn't do much game 1, not much game 2, blocking Scola and talking big? Dude wasyapping for a good 30 seconds. Then the foul, which was a run of the mill foul, and you have 3 Lakers talking jazz to Scola.

Then we have DFish doing something nobody saw coming. If LO did that, people can see it. But DFish does it, and it's like whoa, the golden boy with a blow.

You're gonna tell me that the Rockets didn't get into the Lakers head with all of these actions, in a must win game 2, after losing game 1?

Yeah ok

 

[jstar25]

Yo bright no game 3 thread yet

I guess you only rush to start new gamethreads when your boys lose huh...

Yo Sasha and Luke need to have a seat...

Kobe needs to chill out be for he gets tossed up by Artest... If Kobe let Childs chin check him then he don't stand a chance against Artest

Tomorrow should be a good game

.

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by Goldmember

Originally Posted by Kal Ripped Ken

Originally Posted by franchise3

@ this dude knightingale or whatever it is. Biggest Laker homer out the bunch. I used to think Fro B was but I realized dude was just trash talking and trying to get under people's skins.

But here you have knightengale saying the Rockets choke if they lose the series. What happens if the Lakers lose the series?

Also these Rockets scrubs are showing a lot more grit than an All-Star, one first place DPOTY Pau Gasol and a 6'10 can do everything point foward in Lamar, so far.

Be real, Lakers fans can't be happy with their play

cosign. If anything rockets winning this series would be an upset. They're playing with fire (especially Landry) but i think we showed some of that today with fisher and kobe. Fisher's play (even though it was dirty) helped the team. It took scola completely out of his game and fired everyone else up. Kobe the whole night was hungry for a win and gasol played 10x better than game 1. The only thing i'm concerned about is ariza and the bench. They're all playing terrible so far. But it's 1-1, can't be too mad at that

We're gonna lose this series if the bench kept playing the way they are now..

Bynum

We don't need Bynum to win THIS series.

 

[franchise3]

All I know is, if you can't use Bynum against an Okur-less Jazz team, going against Boozer and Millsap, against Yao, Landry, Hayes, Scola, when do youreally expect to use him?

 

[goukiteg]

Franchise,

I respect your opinions and thoughts. You're one of the few dudes that actual walks the objectively line that others claim too. As for the whole gettinginto their head thing, I look at it as a team fighting back from the clean, physical play of the Rockets. Last year, the Lakers let the Celtics walk all overthem. I think they decided not to let it happen again. But hey my view maybe viewed by the purple and gold.

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

This dude is so dirty.

SHUGES:

---

I'm a fan of PHYSICAL play in the NBA.

But the Lakers were playing borderline DIRTY.

Even though I said 'dirty' a second ago, it wasn't really that they wanted to play dirty. It's that they realized they were worthless against a solid NBA defense, so they started trying to bully the Rockets around.

And that's why I've never once co-signed with anyone over the last year and a half saying we're a championship team; we fold under SOLID NBA defense, and the Rockets are ROCK solid, aas were the Celtics in the Finals, as are the Cavs, and as are the Nuggets.

If I weren't a Lakers fan, I'd bet even money on the Rockets, Nuggets, or Cavs winning it all... because of their hyper-commitment to defense. I'm not completely sold on the Rockets yet, but I'm definitely willing to call the Nuggets a championship team, and I've been calling the Cavs a championship team since mid-December.
WHOA, NUGGETS???? Championship team??? How do you figure? Playing the mavs??? Come on man seriously. They don't play anything that even lookslike defense but because they are playing a Mavs team that does the same it goes unnoticed. The Nuggets defense is worse than the Lakers.

Rethink that statement.

 

[Sam Darnold Heisman #8]

if we beat the rockets every game that theyve gotten in our heads than im fine with that. and you can celebrate your team irritating us as a consolationprize.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

Originally Posted by franchise3

we got BigMike here a Bulls fan, but now they're out, cheering on the Lakers, calling people out. %+%! outta here.

What I mean about the Rockets getting into the Lakers heads, when has ANYONE seen Kobe yell he can't guard me THE WHOLE GAME? Granted, dude was STROKING it last night.

But, let's be real.

After game 1 you have TNT talking about whether the Lakers are mentally tough enough. You have LA Times writer Bill Plaschke writing how the Lakers got bullied. We've heard the talk about Shane's defense a whole year now, going back to last year when the Rockets won game 22 on them, on national TV, with Shane's hands in his face. Then you hear about Ron saying Roy's the best. Then you have Shane and Ron announced on game day, both 2nd team all defense.

All this, and Kobe comes out firing. Staring into the stands, yelling he can't guard me to Doug Collins of all people, the whole 9. Yeah, Kobe says that all the time, but for a whole 48 mins? Nope.

You have LO, ghost game 1, not doing much in the first half, on Scola, who didn't do much game 1, not much game 2, blocking Scola and talking big? Dude was yapping for a good 30 seconds. Then the foul, which was a run of the mill foul, and you have 3 Lakers talking jazz to Scola.

Then we have DFish doing something nobody saw coming. If LO did that, people can see it. But DFish does it, and it's like whoa, the golden boy with a blow.

You're gonna tell me that the Rockets didn't get into the Lakers head with all of these actions, in a must win game 2, after losing game 1?

Yeah ok

yehh the rockets did get into the Lakers heads and the Lakers responded well...the same way ronny tried to get into kobes head in that one game inhouston and kobe responded well...we'll see what happens in game 3

 

[franchise3]

Yeah no doubt. Not so much mind games, but more along the lines of, hey, people are saying the Lakers are a finesse team. They're questioning whether ornot they have the mental toughness, killer mentality. All this losing leads, talk about Shane's D, etc.

Phil realizing Bynum is ineffective, and switching up the starting lineup. After Fish gets torched game 1, some said bench Fisher too.

Not so much getting into their heads psyching the Lakers out, but more along the lines of, ok this is going to be a nitty gritty series. We're gonna haveto make adjustments. That's how the Rockets are. We're gonna have to come out and set the tone and definitely win game 2.

 

[l knicks fresh knick l]

as much as i wanna see kobe get ejected for that elbow, we all know he isn't gonna get suspended.. SMH!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Craftsy21:

---

Even though I said 'dirty' a second ago, it wasn't really that they wanted to play dirty. It's that they realized they were worthless against a solid NBA defense, so they started trying to bully the Rockets around.

As I said in another post - and I hate doing this because I think Phil Jackson is a VERY overrated head coach... BUT - I believe his gameplan, after seeing how physical the Rockets were going to play them, was to force the refs hand in this second game. To get things very chippy out there so that the rest of the series would be called super tight, allowing the Lakers to play more their style.

This was a chess move by Phil and the Lakers - who saw that the Rockets were trying to make this series a measure of pure strength and toughness.. so the Lakers responded with their own style and outsmarted the Rockets a bit. Now you're going to see a finesse series so that we don't get a brawl, which the NBA will try it's hardest to prevent.
That's an interesting theory, and it makes perfect sense. Never thought of it that way. The Rockets play solid but physical defense, so Phil tells the guys to get the refs involved in the game, and since the Rockets are by no means perfect in their physical play, they would maybe have to back off a little bit if the refs stay involved in the game. That frees the Lakers up to play more finesse, and cripples the Rockets from relying on their main identity: smart, hard defense. They'd be reduced to smart defense, which the Lakers would definitely feel more comfortable against given that the alternative is smart, hard defense.

We'll see tomorrow night if you're right. If the Rockets have any success against us tomorrow night ad you're right, I would expect the Lakers to start getting the refs back into the game by pulling off dirty stunts again.

Craftsy21:

---

To the rest of the kobe haters out there - i'm done for now, you guys are ridiculous... the guy who asked where Ron was supposed to put his hands if not on the back of a players neck?

It's so funny to me that out of the two guys you could support - Kobe or Ron.. you guys choose the one who is just a manic hothead... you defend him running over at Kobe and getting right in his face after the play and getting thrown out of the game. Imagine if Kobe pulled that against somebody else... the backlash that would take place here.

Do people no longer judge a persons actions anymore? They just check the name on your jersey and say pass or fail? You guys are a joke that let your emotions get that tied up on a person who doesn't even know you.
On the question 'A player isn't judged by his actions anymore?', I have a question: What's more telling about a person, their previous actions or their most recent actions?

Because Ron has been flying under the radar for quite some time now, and if you really look at what he did, you'll see it really wasn't that bad. He got elbowed in the neck area, that we know. He immediately went to a REF, not Kobe, that we know (watch the replay). Then after talking to the ref on the sideline OPPOSITE Kobe, Artest seems still frustrated with being elbowed in the throat, and the ref is apparently going to do nothing about it, that we know. Then he runs over to the other side of the court to Kobe, and according to him (Ron), he says something to the effect of 'Dude, you need to chill with all this 'elbow to the face and neck' stuff. We can't be doing that to each other.' Me personally, I believe Ron when he says that's what he said.

So he gets elbowed in the neck area, goes to a ref, talks for a few seconds, sees that nothing is going to be done to stop Kobe from doing that again, goes over to Kobe to tell him himself 'Don't do that again', and he gets tossed.

Honestly, I feel bad for him. He handled it the right way the first time, and I don't have a problem with how he confronted Kobe... IF he's being truthful in telling us what was said. Now, if he's lying, and it were revealed that he said something confrontational, then I don't have a problem at all with him getting the boot.

Uh NO....He went to kobe and said hit me in the throat again! That is looking to start something. I have the game recorded and watched it overagain and saw that he pointed at Kobe and then made the gesture of slitting his throat. That is the reason he got tossed.

Look at it for yourself.

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by JStar25

Yo bright no game 3 thread yet

I guess you only rush to start new game threads when your boys lose huh...

Official Game 3: 05/08 LosAngeles @ Houston Rockets 8:30PM CST ESPN

damn fam, your take an L for seriously taking thread making on a whole new level

 

[goukiteg]

Originally Posted by franchise3

Yeah no doubt. Not so much mind games, but more along the lines of, hey, people are saying the Lakers are a finesse team. They're questioning whether or not they have the mental toughness, killer mentality. All this losing leads, talk about Shane's D, etc.

Phil realizing Bynum is ineffective, and switching up the starting lineup. After Fish gets torched game 1, some said bench Fisher too.

Not so much getting into their heads psyching the Lakers out, but more along the lines of, ok this is going to be a nitty gritty series. We're gonna have to make adjustments. That's how the Rockets are. We're gonna have to come out and set the tone and definitely win game 2.

After your clarification, I would have to agree with your, 'getting into the Laker' head statement. The Lakers realize now they have to throw someweight around to let the Rockets know, hey we aren't the same team from last year (even though they resemble it a whole lot to me).

 

[downtown43]

Kobe did not elbow Artest in the throat, or even close. in fact, Artest was the one who actually elbowed Kobe in the head:

http://www.silverscreenan...-kobe-bryant-and-wayward

What Everyone Is Talking About

Let's start with the Kobe Bryant elbow that we're all talking about. The following photo is a still shot of the exact frame where that blow began (the left and right images are the exact same shot; one just has a little something extra):

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111767/koberon8.png http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111771/koberon8.png

Notice anything? Okay, so it should be pretty obvious, what with the green arrow and all. The green arrow traces the angle of Kobe's arm, and what you should notice is that at the moment Kobe's el-blow began, it was aimed directly at Ron Artest's... chest. Interesting, no? But wait, we're not done.

As Kobe connected with the elbow, the blow created some separation between his torso and Artest's. In that space, we can see Kobe's arm. These next two images are ever-so-slightly different from each other. They are a frame apart, simply so that we have a better view of where Kobe's arm actually is.



The blue arrows, as you can see for yourself, point to Kobe's arm.

The meaning of this should be pretty obvious. At the start of the blow, Kobe's elbow was pointed at Ron Ron's chest. At the moment of contact, Kobe's elbow was at Ron Ron's chest. The conclusion would seem clear: Kobe did not elbow Ron Artest in the throat, as claimed. He elbowed him in the chest.

Now, admittedly, this is not the greatest camera angle. It's possible that the league has additional footage, and that a better angle shows different results. But until we see that footage, a detailed, frame-by-frame observation of the footage we have does not support Artest's claim that Bryant elbowed him in the throat.

What No One is Talking About

What's of particular interest to me, which no one is saying much about, is what transpired prior to, and at the same time as, Kobe's elbow to Ron Artest's chest. Observe:



See where the blue arrow is pointing now? That's Artest's arm, planted on Bryant's neck. From here, he's going to shove Kobe with both the arm and the lower body, pushing him toward the basket by the neck and head.



That's Ron Ron's hand on Kobe's neck and head, and he's got Kobe nearly bent in half. Last time I checked, this was not allowed.



Now Artest has his hand on Kobe's neck and head, and his entire forearm on top of his shoulders, and he's leaning his weight onto Kobe - who is struggling to stay vertical. Thanks to a camera flash, the next shot makes this particularly clear.



No nifty blue arrows necessary, right? Let's skip ahead, just a few frames.



Kobe regains his balance a bit, tries to straighten up, but Ron still has his arm on Kobe's neck, trying to shove him downwards. Notice that Ron's body is turning towards the basket. A couple more frames ahead, we have this:



It's hard to see, because of the resolution of the video in this particular frame, but the brown blur that the blue arrow above is pointing to is Artest's hand and forearm. Notice how Kobe's head has snapped back? That's because as Artest turned left, he brought his arm around (remember, it was still on top of Kobe's shoulder), and either the elbow or the upper arm connected with Kobe's head.

Here's our last shot:



The blue arrow is pointing to Artest's forearm, still resting atop Kobe's shoulder. It is bent at a right angle with his upper arm, possibly meaning that when he hit Kobe, it was with a bent elbow. Notice that Kobe's head is now fully snapped back, presumably from the force of the blow.

Kind of changes things, doesn't it? During this entire possession, Ron Artest has been making illegal physical contact with Kobe's head, and using his arms in ways that are not allowed. Is Kobe's elbow to Ron's chest any worse than Ron's hand and forearm on the neck and head - let alone his own blow to Kobe's head? And considering Artest's position throughout this possession - that is, on top of Kobe - is it any surprise that he was called for the foul?

Is Kobe blameless? No. He threw an elbow at Artest. But given the circumstances, and the way Artest was illegally manhandling Kobe with his hands and arms, I have a hard time seeing how that is worse than a shove from one big man to another after getting tangled up underneath the hoop.

And while both players took a blow from the other (Kobe arguably took quite a bit more physical abuse from Ron Ron than he doled out), when the play was over it was Artest who lost his head, while Bryant kept his cool. Artest would have done well to simply walk away - after the way he manhandled Kobe by the neck and head with his hands and arms, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for him. In fact, it's downright hypocritical of him to pitch such a hissy fit, after what he had been doing to Kobe just moments earlier.

Add to that the fact that off-handed clearouts and forearm shoves in the back, largely uncalled, are an almost constant part of his game, and I really don't see where Artest gets off, suddenly getting upset at something like this.

As for Kobe, it's hard to say what will happen. If the league has footage from the other side of the entanglement that clearly shows Kobe's elbow connecting with Artest's throat or head, then he should be suspended one game. But if no such footage exists, then they need to go with the best interpretation of the limited footage they have, which seems to show Kobe elbowing Artest in the chest. Without contact above the shoulders, no suspension would be warranted, and the league would likely assess a flagrant foul and fine Kobe for the elbow to the body.

what i don't understand is why people are taking sides with Artest when he acted like a complete idiot. if Artest had been the one beingpushed by Kobe in that manner, he probably would have gone ape %*!%

HE is the one who made a dirty (or dirtier) play, yet he proceeded to get mad at Kobe? he ran from the other side of the court to get in his face? who doesthat?

and watch the aggressive throat slash at 0:33... people will say "oh, he was saying he got hit in the throat", but i think we all know what Artestmeant by that gesture. he had to have known that he had another tech coming for that one.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

DOWNTOWN43 wrote:

---

Kobe did not elbow Artest in the throat, or even close. in fact, Artest was the one who actually elbowed Kobe in the head:

http://www.silverscreenan...-kobe-bryant-and-wayward

What Everyone Is Talking About

Let's start with the Kobe Bryant elbow that we're all talking about. The following photo is a still shot of the exact frame where that blow began (the left and right images are the exact same shot; one just has a little something extra):

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111767/koberon8.pnghttp://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111771/koberon8.png

Notice anything? Okay, so it should be pretty obvious, what with the green arrow and all. The green arrow traces the angle of Kobe's arm, and what you should notice is that at the moment Kobe's el-blow began, it was aimed directly at Ron Artest's... chest. Interesting, no? But wait, we're not done.

As Kobe connected with the elbow, the blow created some separation between his torso and Artest's. In that space, we can see Kobe's arm. These next two images are ever-so-slightly different from each other. They are a frame apart, simply so that we have a better view of where Kobe's arm actually is.



The blue arrows, as you can see for yourself, point to Kobe's arm.

The meaning of this should be pretty obvious. At the start of the blow, Kobe's elbow was pointed at Ron Ron's chest. At the moment of contact, Kobe's elbow was at Ron Ron's chest. The conclusion would seem clear: Kobe did not elbow Ron Artest in the throat, as claimed. He elbowed him in the chest.

Now, admittedly, this is not the greatest camera angle. It's possible that the league has additional footage, and that a better angle shows different results. But until we see that footage, a detailed, frame-by-frame observation of the footage we have does not support Artest's claim that Bryant elbowed him in the throat.

What No One is Talking About

What's of particular interest to me, which no one is saying much about, is what transpired prior to, and at the same time as, Kobe's elbow to Ron Artest's chest. Observe:



See where the blue arrow is pointing now? That's Artest's arm, planted on Bryant's neck. From here, he's going to shove Kobe with both the arm and the lower body, pushing him toward the basket by the neck and head.



That's Ron Ron's hand on Kobe's neck and head, and he's got Kobe nearly bent in half. Last time I checked, this was not allowed.



Now Artest has his hand on Kobe's neck and head, and his entire forearm on top of his shoulders, and he's leaning his weight onto Kobe - who is struggling to stay vertical. Thanks to a camera flash, the next shot makes this particularly clear.



No nifty blue arrows necessary, right? Let's skip ahead, just a few frames.



Kobe regains his balance a bit, tries to straighten up, but Ron still has his arm on Kobe's neck, trying to shove him downwards. Notice that Ron's body is turning towards the basket. A couple more frames ahead, we have this:



It's hard to see, because of the resolution of the video in this particular frame, but the brown blur that the blue arrow above is pointing to is Artest's hand and forearm. Notice how Kobe's head has snapped back? That's because as Artest turned left, he brought his arm around (remember, it was still on top of Kobe's shoulder), and either the elbow or the upper arm connected with Kobe's head.

Here's our last shot:



The blue arrow is pointing to Artest's forearm, still resting atop Kobe's shoulder. It is bent at a right angle with his upper arm, possibly meaning that when he hit Kobe, it was with a bent elbow. Notice that Kobe's head is now fully snapped back, presumably from the force of the blow.

Kind of changes things, doesn't it? During this entire possession, Ron Artest has been making illegal physical contact with Kobe's head, and using his arms in ways that are not allowed. Is Kobe's elbow to Ron's chest any worse than Ron's hand and forearm on the neck and head - let alone his own blow to Kobe's head? And considering Artest's position throughout this possession - that is, on top of Kobe - is it any surprise that he was called for the foul?

Is Kobe blameless? No. He threw an elbow at Artest. But given the circumstances, and the way Artest was illegally manhandling Kobe with his hands and arms, I have a hard time seeing how that is worse than a shove from one big man to another after getting tangled up underneath the hoop.

And while both players took a blow from the other (Kobe arguably took quite a bit more physical abuse from Ron Ron than he doled out), when the play was over it was Artest who lost his head, while Bryant kept his cool. Artest would have done well to simply walk away - after the way he manhandled Kobe by the neck and head with his hands and arms, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for him. In fact, it's downright hypocritical of him to pitch such a hissy fit, after what he had been doing to Kobe just moments earlier.

Add to that the fact that off-handed clearouts and forearm shoves in the back, largely uncalled, are an almost constant part of his game, and I really don't see where Artest gets off, suddenly getting upset at something like this.

As for Kobe, it's hard to say what will happen. If the league has footage from the other side of the entanglement that clearly shows Kobe's elbow connecting with Artest's throat or head, then he should be suspended one game. But if no such footage exists, then they need to go with the best interpretation of the limited footage they have, which seems to show Kobe elbowing Artest in the chest. Without contact above the shoulders, no suspension would be warranted, and the league would likely assess a flagrant foul and fine Kobe for the elbow to the body.

what i don't understand is why people are taking sides with Artest when he acted like a complete idiot. if Artest had been the one being pushed by Kobe in that manner, he probably would have gone ape %*!%

HE is the one who made a dirty (or dirtier) play, yet he proceeded to get mad at Kobe? he ran from the other side of the court to get in his face? who does that?

and watch the aggressive throat slash at 0:33... people will say "oh, he was saying he got hit in the throat", but i think we all know what Artest meant by that gesture. he had to have known that he had another tech coming for that one.









�� good observation and breakdown of the incident but this isnt gonna change the minds of the Laker and kobe haters in this world

JStar25 wrote:

---

Yo bright no game 3 thread yet

I guess you only rush to start new game threads when your boys lose huh...

Official Game 3: 05/08 Los Angeles @ Houston Rockets 8:30PM CST ESPN

damn fam, your take an L for seriously taking thread making on a whole new level

ouch owned...know your facts before u speak

 

[darthska]

DOWNTOWN43: thanks for posting that. Very interesting.

RonRon.