Official MLB Offseason Post: Michael Young asks for a trade.

[venom lyrix]

reading through what Proshares posted...

- The Nationals all of a sudden are trying to get everyone huh? Werth, Lee, Carlos Pena etc...
- Grady Sizemore isn't worth my socks in a trade right now
- The Houston Astros thinking of moving Wandy? New York is calling, he can be the 5th starter for the Yankees.
- Doubt the Mets trade Beltran, they don't have the balls

 

[moneyisthemotive]

him or zimmerman is a toss up but you cant replace 40 homeruns and 100 rbi with any run of the mill player ... they seriously need a bat and i hope to god they dont think jayson werth is the answer ...

i dont think the nats are that far away, especially if they get Lee ... all this area needs is a winner and the fans will FLOCK ... if the wizards or nats even had half of the die hard fan base the ******** get, it will be enough to keep the financially stable ... and all that takes is a perennial contender ...

we have arguably the best young talent in the league ... stras, harper, bernadina, desmond (who i hate but everyone loves), ramos etc... etc...

 

[moneyisthemotive]

him or zimmerman is a toss up but you cant replace 40 homeruns and 100 rbi with any run of the mill player ... they seriously need a bat and i hope to god they dont think jayson werth is the answer ...

i dont think the nats are that far away, especially if they get Lee ... all this area needs is a winner and the fans will FLOCK ... if the wizards or nats even had half of the die hard fan base the ******** get, it will be enough to keep the financially stable ... and all that takes is a perennial contender ...

we have arguably the best young talent in the league ... stras, harper, bernadina, desmond (who i hate but everyone loves), ramos etc... etc...

 

[venom lyrix]

Originally Posted by Proshares

He probably has the same thinking Werth had. Adding yourself to a decent rotation, good prospects, Ryan Zimmerman and the Harper/Strasburg duo. They're not looking at this year, they're looking at 2012 and beyond.

Adam Dunn wasn't the Nats best hitter.

No he certainly wasn't but he was their big bopper, he was their power source.

Here's the deal, if they can add Pena, and Lee that would be ridiculous and quite the turn around for them, they wont be a door mat anymore

 

[venom lyrix]

Originally Posted by Proshares

He probably has the same thinking Werth had. Adding yourself to a decent rotation, good prospects, Ryan Zimmerman and the Harper/Strasburg duo. They're not looking at this year, they're looking at 2012 and beyond.

Adam Dunn wasn't the Nats best hitter.

No he certainly wasn't but he was their big bopper, he was their power source.

Here's the deal, if they can add Pena, and Lee that would be ridiculous and quite the turn around for them, they wont be a door mat anymore

 

[proshares]

@AndrewMarchand Washington Post says the Nationals will not offer a seventh year. So who could be the team offering seven? Yankees only want to go six.

 

[proshares]

@AndrewMarchand Washington Post says the Nationals will not offer a seventh year. So who could be the team offering seven? Yankees only want to go six.

 

[proshares]

As our rumor mill has shown, one of the big storylines of the ongoing MLB Winter Meetings is which team might be willing to not merely give top free agent pitcher Cliff Lee the most cash -- it's who might give him the most security. We're talking years. Some rumors have the Washington Nationals as a team that might be willing to go as far as seven years in a deal. Given the Nats' aggressiveness in the market thus far, and the significant length of the deal they handed Jayson Werth, as a projection excercise, we decided to project how Lee might fit in D.C. longterm.

After all, given the amount of money being discussed, it's a near-certainty that teams contending for Lee's services are considering their own projections.

What did we find?

While the Nationals may have been rash in giving Jayson Werth so much money over so many years, they're doing the right thing in following up by exploring Lee.

For one, half-measures rarely make much sense, and after giving a big contract to Werth, the Nats have to be committed to putting a good team on the field while Werth is at his best. With Strasburg out until 2012 (and Zimmermann not far removed from major surgery of his own) and none of their other starters as sure bets to perform, the starting rotation is one of the team's biggest hurdles to getting the most out of the Werth signing. Secondly, Lee is easily the best pitcher available and if you have to overpay, adding a potential Cy Young winner to a shaky rotation is a good place. Here's a projection:

[h4]The Long Run[/h4]
Seven years of Cliff Lee might not be a bad investment after all. Here's a projection.
[table][tr][th=""]Year[/th][th=""]W[/th][th=""]L[/th][th=""]ERA[/th][th=""]G[/th][th=""]GS[/th][th=""]IP[/th][th=""]H[/th][th=""]ER[/th][th=""]HR[/th][th=""]BB[/th][th=""]SO[/th][th=""]ERA+[/th][/tr][tr][td]2011[/td][td]16[/td][td]7[/td][td]3.01[/td][td]30[/td][td]30[/td][td]215.1[/td][td]204[/td][td]72[/td][td]15[/td][td]29[/td][td]179[/td][td]136[/td][/tr][tr][td]2012[/td][td]15[/td][td]7[/td][td]3.08[/td][td]28[/td][td]28[/td][td]204.2[/td][td]196[/td][td]70[/td][td]15[/td][td]28[/td][td]165[/td][td]133[/td][/tr][tr][td]2013[/td][td]14[/td][td]7[/td][td]3.21[/td][td]27[/td][td]27[/td][td]196.0[/td][td]190[/td][td]70[/td][td]15[/td][td]27[/td][td]153[/td][td]127[/td][/tr][tr][td]2014[/td][td]13[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.17[/td][td]26[/td][td]26[/td][td]184.1[/td][td]179[/td][td]65[/td][td]14[/td][td]25[/td][td]144[/td][td]129[/td][/tr][tr][td]2015[/td][td]12[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.29[/td][td]23[/td][td]23[/td][td]167.0[/td][td]164[/td][td]61[/td][td]14[/td][td]24[/td][td]129[/td][td]124[/td][/tr][tr][td]2016[/td][td]10[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.47[/td][td]21[/td][td]21[/td][td]147.2[/td][td]149[/td][td]57[/td][td]13[/td][td]21[/td][td]113[/td][td]118[/td][/tr][tr][td]2017[/td][td]9[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.63[/td][td]18[/td][td]18[/td][td]129.0[/td][td]133[/td][td]52[/td][td]12[/td][td]19[/td][td]97[/td][td]113[/td][/tr][/table]

With these numbers (note: as projected by ZiPS for Lee at Nationals Park), the team should be very satisfied with a Lee signing. There's obviously risk on the back end as seen in those inning totals, but to get a pitcher the quality of Lee in the free agent market, that's the trade-off you have to make.

While the feeling here is still that the Nats would have been better served by keeping Dunn, signing Lee, and going after Jon Garland (and maybe bringing in a quality role player like Matt Diaz with the leftover Werth savings), signing Lee is the right follow-up move for GM Mike Rizzo.

 

[proshares]

As our rumor mill has shown, one of the big storylines of the ongoing MLB Winter Meetings is which team might be willing to not merely give top free agent pitcher Cliff Lee the most cash -- it's who might give him the most security. We're talking years. Some rumors have the Washington Nationals as a team that might be willing to go as far as seven years in a deal. Given the Nats' aggressiveness in the market thus far, and the significant length of the deal they handed Jayson Werth, as a projection excercise, we decided to project how Lee might fit in D.C. longterm.

After all, given the amount of money being discussed, it's a near-certainty that teams contending for Lee's services are considering their own projections.

What did we find?

While the Nationals may have been rash in giving Jayson Werth so much money over so many years, they're doing the right thing in following up by exploring Lee.

For one, half-measures rarely make much sense, and after giving a big contract to Werth, the Nats have to be committed to putting a good team on the field while Werth is at his best. With Strasburg out until 2012 (and Zimmermann not far removed from major surgery of his own) and none of their other starters as sure bets to perform, the starting rotation is one of the team's biggest hurdles to getting the most out of the Werth signing. Secondly, Lee is easily the best pitcher available and if you have to overpay, adding a potential Cy Young winner to a shaky rotation is a good place. Here's a projection:

[h4]The Long Run[/h4]
Seven years of Cliff Lee might not be a bad investment after all. Here's a projection.
[table][tr][th=""]Year[/th][th=""]W[/th][th=""]L[/th][th=""]ERA[/th][th=""]G[/th][th=""]GS[/th][th=""]IP[/th][th=""]H[/th][th=""]ER[/th][th=""]HR[/th][th=""]BB[/th][th=""]SO[/th][th=""]ERA+[/th][/tr][tr][td]2011[/td][td]16[/td][td]7[/td][td]3.01[/td][td]30[/td][td]30[/td][td]215.1[/td][td]204[/td][td]72[/td][td]15[/td][td]29[/td][td]179[/td][td]136[/td][/tr][tr][td]2012[/td][td]15[/td][td]7[/td][td]3.08[/td][td]28[/td][td]28[/td][td]204.2[/td][td]196[/td][td]70[/td][td]15[/td][td]28[/td][td]165[/td][td]133[/td][/tr][tr][td]2013[/td][td]14[/td][td]7[/td][td]3.21[/td][td]27[/td][td]27[/td][td]196.0[/td][td]190[/td][td]70[/td][td]15[/td][td]27[/td][td]153[/td][td]127[/td][/tr][tr][td]2014[/td][td]13[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.17[/td][td]26[/td][td]26[/td][td]184.1[/td][td]179[/td][td]65[/td][td]14[/td][td]25[/td][td]144[/td][td]129[/td][/tr][tr][td]2015[/td][td]12[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.29[/td][td]23[/td][td]23[/td][td]167.0[/td][td]164[/td][td]61[/td][td]14[/td][td]24[/td][td]129[/td][td]124[/td][/tr][tr][td]2016[/td][td]10[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.47[/td][td]21[/td][td]21[/td][td]147.2[/td][td]149[/td][td]57[/td][td]13[/td][td]21[/td][td]113[/td][td]118[/td][/tr][tr][td]2017[/td][td]9[/td][td]6[/td][td]3.63[/td][td]18[/td][td]18[/td][td]129.0[/td][td]133[/td][td]52[/td][td]12[/td][td]19[/td][td]97[/td][td]113[/td][/tr][/table]

With these numbers (note: as projected by ZiPS for Lee at Nationals Park), the team should be very satisfied with a Lee signing. There's obviously risk on the back end as seen in those inning totals, but to get a pitcher the quality of Lee in the free agent market, that's the trade-off you have to make.

While the feeling here is still that the Nats would have been better served by keeping Dunn, signing Lee, and going after Jon Garland (and maybe bringing in a quality role player like Matt Diaz with the leftover Werth savings), signing Lee is the right follow-up move for GM Mike Rizzo.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by Proshares

@AndrewMarchand Washington Post says the Nationals will not offer a seventh year. So who could be the team offering seven? Yankees only want to go six.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by Proshares

@AndrewMarchand Washington Post says the Nationals will not offer a seventh year. So who could be the team offering seven? Yankees only want to go six.

 

[wildkycat]

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

They should take Yonder Alonso for Greinke. Jocketty doesn't sound interested in that deal though.

And Boston is making is tougher to re-sign Votto without breaking the bank. 7 yrs 154 mill

if you trade Yonder (which i would like to do) you must get Votto inked long term, whatever it takes.  i would like to think that the fact that Votto is a weirdo and real personal dude, hates attention and all that, would work in our favor against him wanting to go to free agency and head to a big market.  pay the man.
  

 

[wildkycat]

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

They should take Yonder Alonso for Greinke. Jocketty doesn't sound interested in that deal though.

And Boston is making is tougher to re-sign Votto without breaking the bank. 7 yrs 154 mill

if you trade Yonder (which i would like to do) you must get Votto inked long term, whatever it takes.  i would like to think that the fact that Votto is a weirdo and real personal dude, hates attention and all that, would work in our favor against him wanting to go to free agency and head to a big market.  pay the man.
  

 

[proshares]

I read somewhere (take it with an extreme grain of salt because I can't remember where I saw it) that Votto was hesitant to sign an extension right now. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Check out this page.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/joey_votto/ 

 

[proshares]

I read somewhere (take it with an extreme grain of salt because I can't remember where I saw it) that Votto was hesitant to sign an extension right now. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Check out this page.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/joey_votto/ 

 

[wildkycat]

yeah, i read something too a few days ago:

The reigning NL MVP Joey Votto arrived at Redsfest on Saturday and was naturally a man in demand. Votto talked with reporters with a little while. I will have more in a story later on MLB.com.

Obviously, there is much speculation about Votto's contract situation. He's arbitration eligible and due a large raise from his $525,000 salary in 2010. The Reds are open to signing Votto to a multi-year contract but when asked if he'd like to be in Cincinnati long term, Votto wasn't prepared to tip his hand. Everything remains in the preliminary stages.

"I don't know as far as beyond three years. I think it's a real unfair question to ask," Votto said. "This is not me saying I don't want to be here. But last year was a difficult year for me. This year was a better year for me. It's really hard for me to think three years ahead, five years ahead, seven years ahead or 10 years ahead. When [Troy] Tulowitzki signed that 10-year contract [with the Rockies], I was blown away. I can't imagine seeing myself 10 years from now saying I want to be here. It's an overwhelming thing to ask a young person like myself and say 'here's a lot of money. Be happy with this over 10 years, deal with it.'"

Votto said he has not timetable to get a deal done this winter.

"I wouldn't let contract talks interrupt my lif," Votto said. "It's inevitable that I am going to have some sort of contract in the future. Whether it's one year or whatever years, I'm not going to let that interrupt not only my free time, but also my training in the off-season. It certainly won't affect my game. When you caught up in the hype and all the stuff and everything, that's when you get into trouble. I'm not going to let that happen. "

It appears that Votto has no plans to take any hometown discounts to remain with the Reds for the long haul.

I'm not going to disrespect the people ahead of me that paved the way for those types of earnings and the people behind me that expect a certain amount or fair value," he said. "I don't want to hurt the people behind me. That's not fair."

 

[wildkycat]

yeah, i read something too a few days ago:

The reigning NL MVP Joey Votto arrived at Redsfest on Saturday and was naturally a man in demand. Votto talked with reporters with a little while. I will have more in a story later on MLB.com.

Obviously, there is much speculation about Votto's contract situation. He's arbitration eligible and due a large raise from his $525,000 salary in 2010. The Reds are open to signing Votto to a multi-year contract but when asked if he'd like to be in Cincinnati long term, Votto wasn't prepared to tip his hand. Everything remains in the preliminary stages.

"I don't know as far as beyond three years. I think it's a real unfair question to ask," Votto said. "This is not me saying I don't want to be here. But last year was a difficult year for me. This year was a better year for me. It's really hard for me to think three years ahead, five years ahead, seven years ahead or 10 years ahead. When [Troy] Tulowitzki signed that 10-year contract [with the Rockies], I was blown away. I can't imagine seeing myself 10 years from now saying I want to be here. It's an overwhelming thing to ask a young person like myself and say 'here's a lot of money. Be happy with this over 10 years, deal with it.'"

Votto said he has not timetable to get a deal done this winter.

"I wouldn't let contract talks interrupt my lif," Votto said. "It's inevitable that I am going to have some sort of contract in the future. Whether it's one year or whatever years, I'm not going to let that interrupt not only my free time, but also my training in the off-season. It certainly won't affect my game. When you caught up in the hype and all the stuff and everything, that's when you get into trouble. I'm not going to let that happen. "

It appears that Votto has no plans to take any hometown discounts to remain with the Reds for the long haul.

I'm not going to disrespect the people ahead of me that paved the way for those types of earnings and the people behind me that expect a certain amount or fair value," he said. "I don't want to hurt the people behind me. That's not fair."

 

[bratz dos]

looks like the Mets signed Ronny Paulino. no details posted yet.

decent backup option to Josh Thole. 29yrs old. hits lefties well. avg behind the plate.

 

[bratz dos]

looks like the Mets signed Ronny Paulino. no details posted yet.

decent backup option to Josh Thole. 29yrs old. hits lefties well. avg behind the plate.

 

[proshares]

PED Paulino.

 

[proshares]

PED Paulino.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

We are going to finish in 5th place this year smh.  Time for a Florida Marlins style fire sale with this team, there is just not enough pieces there to even make an attempt to building up this core.  Even if that meant getting rid of David, who I would be beyond sad to see leave I would do it.  This division is stocked with teams that are ready to contend now, signing bigfree agents will just keep us behind for the future.  Time to start actually thinking ahead for once and commit fully to rebuilding.


At least they dropped ticket prices this year.  And Jayson Werth is still in the division so I get to still whip out with my Jennifer Utley chants which got me thrown of the game this summer. Sneaking 4 loko's into the game FTW

 

[airmaxpenny1]

We are going to finish in 5th place this year smh.  Time for a Florida Marlins style fire sale with this team, there is just not enough pieces there to even make an attempt to building up this core.  Even if that meant getting rid of David, who I would be beyond sad to see leave I would do it.  This division is stocked with teams that are ready to contend now, signing bigfree agents will just keep us behind for the future.  Time to start actually thinking ahead for once and commit fully to rebuilding.


At least they dropped ticket prices this year.  And Jayson Werth is still in the division so I get to still whip out with my Jennifer Utley chants which got me thrown of the game this summer. Sneaking 4 loko's into the game FTW

 

[proshares]

I might be nice and buy you and Mez some sympathy beers one day next summer

A's and Red Sox having internal discussions about Beltrain FWIW.

 

[proshares]

I might be nice and buy you and Mez some sympathy beers one day next summer

A's and Red Sox having internal discussions about Beltrain FWIW.