Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[mez 0ne]

That team with Wade & Bosh, along with Allen and all those role players definitely would have an outside shot at a chip imo.  

and with that $ not used on Bron they would have a better PG than Chalmers...how would they still not be an East contender. Bosh would playa lot better as well instead of having to defer as much.

People make it seem like Miami would be an 8th seed.

 

[seasoned vet]

So by your logic, the better employee here should more or less quit on his fellow coworkers so that their shortcomings are abundantly obvious and upper management can get more qualified coworkers for that better employee?

YES.

however i dont call that quitting if you're still doing YOUR job.

if your teams sucks, let them suck. all that 1 vs 5 is going nowhere, just spinning wheels.

blah.

 

[ballinsam23]

Man i hate (more like dislike) the fact that Lebron and the Heat had such amazing year.


MVP = MOST VALUABLE PLAYER to your team


Not the best player in the NBA award. Without Lebron they'd still be a top 5 seed in the East.


Yes Melo should be MVP, without Melo we're a 30 win team at best. You can even throw Harden in there, but I wont give Harden credit until he plays at a high level against a great team.

um then what about mj...cause without him the bulls were a top seed...hell in one year they were a bad call...and a miss call away from being in the finals. So based off what you said mj shouldnt have been mvp multiple times. Hell to be honest alot of the years there were players who meant more to their team then mj... Where is the mj doesnt deserve all his mvp awards at?

Why even bring MJ into this? No one is on his level, and he stopped numerous greats from winning a chip. He probably deserved more MVPs.

No I dont think Lebron is on his level.

 

[duba169]

No way, wade isnt a reliable #1 option at this point in his career

Or he takes nights off and lets lebron do what he does because he has that luxury.

I think wade is coy and I suspect that he would be just fine as a number 1 option. He's playing everybody

 

[ballinsam23]

So by your logic, the better employee here should more or less quit on his fellow coworkers so that their shortcomings are abundantly obvious and upper management can get more qualified coworkers for that better employee?

YES.

however i dont call that quitting if you're still doing YOUR job.

if your teams sucks, let them suck. all that 1 vs 5 is going nowhere, just spinning wheels.

blah.

Quite possibly the dumbest statement ever.

 

[blazers21ntnp]

So, take away MJs MVPs because he had Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Kukoc & Rodman in various MVP seasons and the team would've stayed afloat without him (as demonstrated in 1993-94), and hand it to not as good of a player with a worse supporting cast? Go back and Shaq doesn't deserve his because he had Kobe, and the team would've been top 5 in the conference without O'Neal?

The list of MVPs throughout league history would be laughable if the best player was penalized for having a good supporting cast, and the award were given to "the best player whose team would be in the lottery without him".

 

[duba169]

The city of Indianapolis doesn't deserve the Pacers.

They should be forced to be moved to Seattle.

Can someone from indiana explain all this? That team is blue collar as they come and I don't understand why they don't get the love the 90s pacers get

That crowd the Knicks used to go against was SERIOUS

I'm not buying the riot as a excuse. Nobody from that team is still there.

 

[iheartboost]

Clips

 

[100027]

Sorry Knick fans but you have to jump through insane hoops to justify Melo as MVP.  Frankly he's just not that good of a player, nor does he deserve it this year and even though I'm a Melo-hater I think that's a pretty widely agreed upon sentiment.

You guys are pretty delusional.  Cool to love your own players, but you're delusional.  

You should have blown out the Celtics like OKC did to Houston.  Melo might have had 36 but that first half was horrible and a perfect example of his deficiencies...  Like I said, 3 passes out of 26 touches...  Holding the ball for 5-7 seconds in one place for no reason just to burn off the shot clock like he's in college...  Whining and throwing his arms up after he doesn't get foul calls...  Ugh.  I know you're excited now and you'll make all the excuses in the world when you lose, but you're not contenders this year and he's the reason why.

I'm confident making that statement and you can quote me if you think otherwise, and throw it back at me if you win something.

 

[seasoned vet]

Quite possibly the dumbest statement ever.

then you didnt get the analogy.

 

[duba169]

So, take away MJs MVPs because he had Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Kukoc & Rodman in various MVP seasons and the team would've stayed afloat without him (as demonstrated in 1993-94), and hand it to not as good of a player with a worse supporting cast? Go back and Shaq doesn't deserve his because he had Kobe, and the team would've been top 5 in the conference without O'Neal?

The list of MVPs throughout league history would be laughable if the best player was penalized for having a good supporting cast, and the award were given to "the best player whose team would be in the lottery without him".

If your super stacked team doesn't finish number 1 in the league, you shouldn't get it then.

Lebron didn't even get the best record in the crap eastern confrence last year! And still got MVP

Finished 4th overall

This year like I said at least it feels right because they got the best record.

 

[al3xis]

A team with wade and bosh has zero percent chance of winning a championship?

Zero?

Uh, yah.

and with that $ not used on Bron they would have a better PG than Chalmers...how would they still not be an East contender. Bosh would playa lot better as well instead of having to defer as much.

Ok, I'll do the same with the Knicks/Melo and they won't be god awful.

Lebron didn't even get the best record in the crap eastern confrence last year! And still got MVP

Spurs and Bulls didn't have a candidate. Thunder won 1 more game and LeBron was superior to Durant. Not sure what the mystery is.

Sorry Knick fans but you have to jump through insane hoops to justify Melo as MVP.

There's no hoop out there to jump through. It's ludicrous. Period.

 

[Animal Thug]

I don't get the Indiana hate? What's going on with Indy? Someone care to eleborate?

 

[alleniversonfan01]

Im not gonna get into switching players between teams and arguing if they would make the team better or worse. But I will say Lebron (and even Durant for that matter) benefits much more from their teammates abilities than Melo does. You rarely ever see those guys get doubled because they have another all star on their team to pass the ball to that can take over. JR is good. But im sure if a team had the choice of JR or Melo shooting they take JR 90% of the time. Where as the other teams you have to gameplan for the other stars on the team just as much as Bron and KD.

Melo gets double and triple teams thrown at him on a nightly basis and he passes out of them fairly well when he has to. Sure lets bring up him touching the ball 26 times in a half and only passing 3 when 18 or so of those touches were with 6 or less seconds on the shot clock. What else is he supposed to do besides look for his shot at that point. 

Does that mean Melo gets the trophy? I doubt it. Most of the public voters have made it pretty clear they are just riding the Bron wave (and I cant necessarily blame them) But take each guy off his respective team and the Knicks are in a much worse position than the Heat and the Thunder

 

[100027]

Im not gonna get into switching players between teams and arguing if they would make the team better or worse. But I will say Lebron (and even Durant for that matter) benefits much more from their teammates abilities than Melo does. You rarely ever see those guys get doubled because they have another all star on their team to pass the ball to that can take over. JR is good. But im sure if a team had the choice of JR or Melo shooting they take JR 90% of the time. Where as the other teams you have to gameplan for the other stars on the team just as much as Bron and KD.

Melo gets double and triple teams thrown at him on a nightly basis and he passes out of them fairly well when he has to. Sure lets bring up him touching the ball 26 times in a half and only passing 3 when 18 or so of those touches were with 6 or less seconds on the shot clock. What else is he supposed to do besides look for his shot at that point. 

Does that mean Melo gets the trophy? I doubt it. Most of the public voters have made it pretty clear they are just riding the Bron wave (and I cant necessarily blame them) But take each guy off his respective team and the Knicks are in a much worse position than the Heat and the Thunder

6 seconds or less on the shot clock?  What about when he gets it with 15 and stands still until there are 6 seconds left on the shot clock.

And overall, meh...  The excuse of every black hole player is "what was I supposed to do?, my teammates aren't good enough!"  Spoiler: they make those teammates worse.  Knicks have lots of guys who can make plays.  Also Denver had multiple all-stars and Melo was selfish there too.

 

[mez 0ne]

6 seconds or less on the shot clock?  What about when he gets it with 15 and stands still until there are 6 seconds left on the shot clock.

And overall, meh...  The excuse of every black hole player is "what was I supposed to do?, my teammates aren't good enough!"  Spoiler: they make those teammates worse.  Knicks have lots of guys who can make plays.  Also Denver had multiple all-stars and Melo was selfish there too.

ahh the good ol' Denver had all stars argument.....What all stars, past his prime Iverson? An overpaid K Mart which Kidd practically made? That Denver team faced the Lakers or Spurs 4 times in the first round, and the only time Denver was ever favored in a playoff series they made the West Finals and lost a tough series. Spurs/Lakers completely dominated the decade.

Knicks have no one who can create their own shot, who exactly is Melo taking shots away from? JR already shoots enough, you want Felton/Kidd to shoot more? Novak who doesn't attempt 3 pointer even if Nate Robinson was closing out on him? Tyson Chandler who doesn't look for his shot?

Assists doesn't indicate whether or not a player passes or not. Melo has done a good job all season kicking out of double teams with the ball swinging to the open man.

Stop putting so much emphasis on a grind it out game vs Boston in which they WON. Nobody on the Knicks shot well and looked for Melo to save them, I counted 5-6 possessions where Felton, the PG, put Melo in the worst possible situation to create a shot with a few seconds to attempt a shot. He still shot 44% and had 6 rebounds....but always emphasize the negatives.

 

[mrswagtastic]

I just don't see how you can't give Lebron the MVP when he is having a better year all-around than last year, the year in which he was the MVP.
Only other guy I would consider to be an MVP candidate would be CP3

 

[100027]

ahh the good ol' Denver had all stars argument.....What all stars, past his prime Iverson? An overpaid K Mart which Kidd practically made? That Denver team faced the Lakers or Spurs 4 times in the first round, and the only time Denver was ever favored in a playoff series they made the West Finals and lost a tough series. Spurs/Lakers completely dominated the decade.

Knicks have no one who can create their own shot, who exactly is Melo taking shots away from? JR already shoots enough, you want Felton/Kidd to shoot more? Novak who doesn't attempt 3 pointer even if Nate Robinson was closing out on him? Tyson Chandler who doesn't look for his shot?

Assists doesn't indicate whether or not a player passes or not. Melo has done a good job all season kicking out of double teams with the ball swinging to the open man.

Stop putting so much emphasis on a grind it out game vs Boston in which they WON. Nobody on the Knicks shot well and looked for Melo to save them, I counted 5-6 possessions where Felton, the PG, put Melo in the worst possible situation to create a shot.

You can keep making the same excuses forever.  You'll never win with Melo, he will never make his teammates better, you will never reach the NBA finals.  

It's not "taking away shots" that makes him worse.  It's destroying the flow of the offense.  Melo cannot play within the flow of an offensive set.  THAT is his problem, it has always been his problem, it will never change.  If your team played with offensive flow, every player you mentioned would look much better on the court.  

LeBron creates flow.  Durant plays within flow.  Melo takes flow and beats it over the head with a rock until it's unconscious.

 

[alleniversonfan01]

Well first, Denver did NOT have multiple All Stars until Iverson got there. And even as an Iverson fan, can admit he got a few of those off reputation that late in his career. 

Secondly Melo and the Knicks dont run the fastbreak. They are a half court team. Lebron and KD often look lost when things get into half court sets for an extended period of time. With Bron dribbling the ball at the top of the Key and jacking a 3 a lot of the time and KD just falling back to the 3 pt line while Russ does damage. We are in offensive sets 95% of the game. And he has a back to the basket type of game. He gets the ball in triple threat and goes to work. Usually on a mismatch because hes being guarded by 4s all season. So for the umpteenth time his assist numbers arent there because when he does pass out the guy to shoot is all the way on the other side of the court and it doesnt get there for 2 or 3 passes. 

Im not gonna sit here and argue that Melo is out there flying down the lane and kicking it out the 3pt shooters like Bron. And I feel like Bron has MVP pretty well wrapped up. But only because I feel like the award changed to "Best player in the League" a couple seasons ago. But if you take Melo off the team JR is taking all those Isos and well, I dont feel confident in the Knicks even making the playoffs if that is the gameplan every night. 

Is Melo better than Bron. NO. Is Melo more important to the Knicks than Bron is to the Heat.Yes. And That used to be what MVP was about. But like I said, it has moved to best player in the league a few years back. And it is what it is. 

 

[shoelyesses]

Why even bring MJ into this? No one is on his level, and he stopped numerous greats from winning a chip. He probably deserved more MVPs.

No I dont think Lebron is on his level

because based on your reasoning for lebron not getting it,,,i gave an example of a player in the exact same position...except jordans bull team was better then any team lebron has been on and won mvp. And for you to say how jordan is leagues ahead of lebron as an individual player (which is questionable) kinda contridicts your argument of most valuable player, when you said its about all around player, and making others around them better. So which is it the best overall player in the league, or the individual who contributes and means most to the team? We saw that w/o jordan the bulls within a few games maintained the same record. As for lebron and the cavs (lol), and lebron with the heat...there is clearly a obvious drop off. Not just in the course of a whole season, but hell just in a game to game. You can clearly see the difference in the dynamic and makeup from the time lebron hits the bench, to the time he re enters the game. 

 

[mez 0ne]

You can keep making the same excuses forever.  You'll never win with Melo, he will never make his teammates better, you will never reach the NBA finals.  

It's not "taking away shots" that makes him worse.  It's destroying the flow of the offense.  Melo cannot play within the flow of an offensive set.  THAT is his problem, it has always been his problem, it will never change.  If your team played with offensive flow, every player you mentioned would look much better on the court.  

LeBron creates flow.  Durant plays within flow.  Melo takes flow and beats it over the head with a rock until it's unconscious.

you didn't even respond to a single point I made, and already stated your a Melo hater, so regardless you have your mind made up and I bet you barely watched any games this season.

Using Lebron as a way to support your "argument" is already comical, nobody is Lebron and he is a natural PG freak.

and saying Melo will never make the Finals is such an easy argument to make when you have to face Miami along the way.

 

[sorkoram]

Well I think we're talking about the hypothetical/actually inevitable situation where LeBron gets busted for steroid abuse and suspended from the league 

Edit: Bosh is still way better than people think!

When Wade and Bron were sitting out, I expected Bosh to cook and Mike Miller ended up leading the charge.

 

[100027]

you didn't even respond to a single point I made, and already stated your a Melo hater, so regardless you have your mind made up and I bet you barely watched any games this season.

Using Lebron as a way to support your "argument" is already comical, nobody is Lebron and he is a natural PG freak.

and saying Melo will never make the Finals is such an easy argument to make when you have to face Miami along the way.

Y'know I've answered every one of those 'points' so many times on this forum and in the end all they are is excuses for a player who isn't smart enough and isn't a leader.  I don't have anything more to say about it.

 

[jumpman91023]

6 seconds or less on the shot clock?  What about when he gets it with 15 and stands still until there are 6 seconds left on the shot clock.

And overall, meh...  The excuse of every black hole player is "what was I supposed to do?, my teammates aren't good enough!"  Spoiler: they make those teammates worse.  Knicks have lots of guys who can make plays.  Also Denver had multiple all-stars and Melo was selfish there too.

Bruh, we didn't have an all stars besides Melo and AI. And actually AI made the team worse. There's a reason we went to the WCF once we shipped him to D town. We were just a very good deep team but at the time Melo nor Jr were mature enough to play at the level there at now. Even tho Melo was still getting off back then. But that has to do with the whole Jr having to know ever little mistake he made would probably result with him on the bench.

 

[henz0]

 

LeBron creates flow.  Durant plays within flow.  Melo takes flow and beats it over the head with a rock until it's unconscious.