Official NBA Off-Season Thread. New 2012-2013 Thread Has Been Made. Please Post In There

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UCB666 said:
Varejao contract is lesser than Brook's MAX. 

Also, Nets will probably have a higher standing than the Cavaliers at the end of the season; Cavs have a higher likelihood of entering the draft lottery than the Nets, so their picks may potentially be more valuable. 


IMO, Cavs can offer a better package for Orlando's rebuilding process. 

Still, Houston probably owns the best draft pick in this discussion (via TOR). 
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If that's how you're gonna measure it, then why don't they trade for some 12th man scrub who has a microscopic contract? The deal Magic would be getting is hot garbage with no sure things. With Lopez, they would've at least had someone who resembles a franchise player and could carry the scoring load. What would the Magic look like if they take this Varejao deal? Their leading scorer would average like 14 points per game. Another thing is the fact that Lopez is 24 years old. Varejao is 30. How exactly is taking Varejao "better package for Orlando's rebuilding process". Because if they take this deal, they would be rebuilding for many years to come, that's for sure.

Also, they are stupid to assume that Cavs with a sophmore and much better Kyrie, Bynum and 4th pick Waiters would get a good pick. The lower playoff seeds in the east are very easy to come by. The 25-41 Detroit Pistons were in 10th place this previous season. But if the Cavs do make the lottery, the odds of them getting a high pick are extremely low.
 
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Dwight ending up in LA has always seemed most likely IMO.

I'll keep saying this- OKC will regret it if it ever happens. I think that LA team can beat them. But, they can make a deal to get Dwight today. I think He absolutely would re-sign there to play with KD and Russ on a 60 win team, too. He does not have the stones to leave that situation for..? Even if he does leave, you probably get one championship out of it anyway and can go from there.
 
Xtapolapacetl said:
If that's how you're gonna measure it, then why don't they trade for some 12th man scrub who has a microscopic contract? The deal Magic would be getting is hot garbage with no sure things. With Lopez, they would've at least had someone who resembles a franchise player and could carry the scoring load. What would the Magic look like if they take this Varejao deal? Their leading scorer would average like 14 points per game.
Also, they are stupid to assume that Cavs with a sophmore and much better Kyrie, Bynum and 4th pick Waiters would get a good pick. The lower playoff seeds in the east are very easy to come by. The 25-41 Detroit Pistons were in 10th place this previous season. But if the Cavs do make the lottery, the odds of them getting a high pick are extremely low.
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You're bolstering my opinion. The reason I believe they shouldn't take on Brook is because 1) his contract would be a lock for 4 or 5 years at the max for a player who hasn't proven his entire potential yet 2) Say Brook does pan out to be a 20/10 guy, well where does this put the Magic? Basketball purgatory. At the same time, they still wouldn't be contending, nor will they be "tanking" for a future lottery pick. It's been stated the Magic hope to wipe their slate clean and rebuild from a plethora of young players & picks. 

However, I agree that the Cavs will not land a lottery pick, and if they do, it won't be a very low one (remember, the lower the better with these picks!). There is no knowing what happens with Irving, Bynum, and Waiters. The same thing with the Nets. But, if I had to guess, I'd say the Nets would end up with a more respectable record, thus, making their pick less valuable (to whatever degree). Of course, everything is only speculation, and for all we know, Irving can carry the Cavs to a championship next year... lol. 

With that being said, would you rather go with Brook, a mediocre record, and the Nets' picks, or would you rather go with Varejao, potential to be one of the very worst teams, and the Cavs' picks? I'd opt for the latter, but that's just me. 

Ideally, if HOU can stick their nose back into this and land Bynum, with ORL landing HOU's pick via TOR, and LAL landing D12, I'd say that might end up being the best scenario for the involved three teams. 
 

Fun fact: The 76ers' leading scorer averaged 14, and that took them into the Eastern Semi's. 

EDIT: POINT IS LOU WILLIAMS AVERAGED 14.9!!! I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FORMAT OF THIS.

PLAYERGPGSMINPPGOFFRDEFRRPGAPGSPGBPGTPGFPGA/TOPERLou Williams, PG64026.314.90.52.02.43.50.830.281.11.43.120.2Jrue Holiday, PG656533.813.50.92.43.34.51.580.282.12.12.114.7Thaddeus Young, F63127.912.82.23.05.21.21.020.650.92.01.318.9Andre Iguodala, SF626235.612.40.95.26.15.51.730.481.91.52.917.6Elton Brand, PF606028.911.02.44.77.21.60.971.621.12.91.518.1Spencer Hawes, C372924.99.62.15.27.32.60.431.301.52.71.818.2Evan Turner, SG652026.49.40.45.45.82.80.620.311.61.81.712.7Jodie Meeks, G665024.98.40.32.22.40.80.610.050.41.21.911.5Nikola Vucevic, C511515.95.51.73.14.80.60.390.670.62.20.914.3Xavier Silas, G2019.55.51.01.02.01.50.000.001.52.51.00.1Lavoy Allen, PF411515.24.11.13.04.20.80.320.440.51.81.712.8Sam Young, SF[sup]†[/sup]35210.73.30.61.21.80.40.490.170.50.70.99.8Craig Brackins, SF1416.31.60.40.71.10.60.000.070.30.42.04.3Tony Battie, C271110.91.60.32.22.50.60.150.220.11.04.07.3Andres Nocioni, F1115.11.50.11.21.30.10.090.090.50.40.21.8Francisco Elson, C503.20.40.00.20.20.20.200.200.20.01.06.3Totals66----93.610.732.543.222.07.975.1511.217.52.0--


Well... this didn't work out so well. 
 
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Hope the Lakers pick up Howard...don't know how many more good years Kobe has to get another ring...time is not on his side though
 
UCB666 said:
You're bolstering my opinion. The reason I believe they shouldn't take on Brook is because 1) his contract would be a lock for 4 or 5 years at the max for a player who hasn't proven his entire potential yet 2) Say Brook does pan out to be a 20/10 guy, well where does this put the Magic? Basketball purgatory. At the same time, they still wouldn't be contending, nor will they be "tanking" for a future lottery pick. It's been stated the Magic hope to wipe their slate clean and rebuild from a plethora of young players & picks. 


However, I agree that the Cavs will not land a lottery pick, and if they do, it won't be a very low one (remember, the lower the better with these picks!). There is no knowing what happens with Irving, Bynum, and Waiters. The same thing with the Nets. But, if I had to guess, I'd say the Nets would end up with a more respectable record, thus, making their pick less valuable (to whatever degree). Of course, everything is only speculation, and for all we know, Irving can carry the Cavs to a championship next year... lol. 


With that being said, would you rather go with Brook, a mediocre record, and the Nets' picks, or would you rather go with Varejao, potential to be one of the very worst teams, and the Cavs' picks? I'd opt for the latter, but that's just me. 


Ideally, if HOU can stick their nose back into this and land Bynum, with ORL landing HOU's pick via TOR, and LAL landing D12, I'd say that might end up being the best scenario for the involved three teams. 
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Basketball purgatory with a good player at the position where good players are hardest to come by and the possibility of creating a 1-2 punch with some guard is a hell of a lot better than just plain basketball purgatory - which they would be at if they take this Varejao deal.

They would not have a mediocre record with Brooks as their main man, they would still have one of the worst records in the league. His seasons with the Nets prove that. But at least they would have the possibility of drafting a good player in the draft and creating a 1-2 punch than drafting a player and asking him to do it all for the team himself.

LOL, I love how you're arguing like it takes some EFFORT to be the worst team in the league. Like they should take Varejao because it gives them a higher chance of having a bad record because having a bad record is otherwise such a hard thing to do. There are plenty of ways to do that with or without Varejao/Brooks. They don't even have to throw away games blatantly like miss open layups, play no D or whatever and arouse suspicion. As long as the GM and the coaching staff want a bad reocrd, it can be done easily and very discretely without the players even knowing it.
 
Xtapolapacetl said:
Basketball purgatory with a good player at the position where good players are hardest to come by and the possibility of creating a 1-2 punch with some guard is a hell of a lot better than just plain basketball purgatory - which they would be at if they take this Varejao deal.
They would not have a mediocre record with Brooks as their main man, they would still have one of the worst records in the league. His seasons with the Nets prove that. But at least they would have the possibility of drafting a good player in the draft and creating a 1-2 punch than drafting a player and asking him to do it all for the team himself.
LOL, I love how you're arguing like it takes some EFFORT to be the worst team in the league. Like they should take Varejao because it gives them a higher chance of having a bad record because having a bad record is otherwise such a hard thing to do. There are plenty of ways to do that with or without Varejao/Brooks. They don't even have to throw away games blatantly like miss open layups, play no D or whatever and arouse suspicion. As long as the GM and the coaching staff want a bad reocrd, it can be done easily and very discretely without the players even knowing it.
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Does anybody really want to create a 1-2 punch with Brooks? Deron wasn't returning to BYK until they landed Johnson. Deron is a proven top 5 PG talent, and that's pretty tough to come by too. Maybe it's just me, I never liked the idea of the BYK trade, and neither did a lot of basketball analysts; it's up to you though, you've got your own opinion and I've got mine. 

Can't just underachieve by choice, you'll lose the fan base, it'll have a negative impact economically for the franchise. 
 
UCB666 said:
Does anybody really want to create a 1-2 punch with Brooks? Deron wasn't returning to BYK until they landed Johnson. Deron is a proven top 5 PG talent, and that's pretty tough to come by too. Maybe it's just me, I never liked the idea of the BYK trade, and neither did a lot of basketball analysts; it's up to you though, you've got your own opinion and I've got mine. 


Can't just underachieve by choice, you'll lose the fan base, it'll have a negative impact economically for the franchise. 
Click to expand...

I am willing to bet anything that there are more talented guards willing to create a 1-2 punch with Lopez than with Varejao. Deron might be a top 5 PG talent, but LeBron is a top 1 player talent and he left that bum Varejao who couldn't be won with even though Varejao wasn't even the second option.

LOL, you just said that they should choose the Varejao deal over Lopez' because that would give them a higher probability of having a bad record/high pick. Isn't picking that deal effectively underachieving by choice in itself? So let me get this straight:

It's a great move for them to actively seek out trades that will make them have a bad record, but once those trades DO go through, THEN they should spill their guts, fight for the very last W and try to get the best record possible?

Thanks, makes perfect sense.
 
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Xtapolapacetl said:
I am willing to bet anything that there are more talented guards willing to create a 1-2 punch with Lopez than with Varejao. Deron might be a top 5 PG talent, but LeBron is a top 1 player talent and he left that bum Varejao who couldn't be won with even though Varejao wasn't even the second option.
LOL, you just said that they should choose the Varejao deal over Lopez' because that would give them a higher probability of having a bad record/high pick. Isn't picking that deal effectively underachieving by choice in itself? So let me get this straight:
It's a great move for them to actively seek out trades that will make them have a better record, but once those trades DO go through, THEN they should spill their guts, fight for the very last W and try to get the best record possible?
Thanks, makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...
Yeah.. where though? Everybody's locked in except CP, and he isn't playing with Lopez or Varejao anytime soon. I'm not saying guards are more willing to play with Varejao. All I'm saying is, does anybody have Brook at the top of their list of centers? 

If they choose the Varejao deal, what would their expected/projected record be in comparison to the Brook deal? It'd be worse. I used the word underachieve in the sense of given their talent, what can they do with it? With Brook, I hope they aren't at the bottom of the charts. With Varejao, I wouldn't question it if they were at the bottom of the charts. With the Varejao deal, the likelihood of them "tanking" is much more expected than if they had chose to ride with Brook. Do you understand what I mean by that? 

And take it easy bud, you're starting to lean into a ad hominem. 
 
ESPNChrisPalmer  chris palmer  

10 Best NBA Rosters: 1. Thunder 2. Lakers 3. Heat 4. Knicks 5. Celtics 6. Nets 7. Clips 8. Spurs 9. Bulls 10. Nuggets
 
UCB666 said:
Yeah.. where though? Everybody's locked in except CP, and he isn't playing with Lopez or Varejao anytime soon. I'm not saying guards are more willing to play with Varejao. All I'm saying is, does anybody have Brook at the top of their list of centers? 


If they choose the Varejao deal, what would their expected/projected record be in comparison to the Brook deal? It'd be worse. I used the word underachieve in the sense of given their talent, what can they do with it? With Brook, I hope they aren't at the bottom of the charts. With Varejao, I wouldn't question it if they were at the bottom of the charts. With the Varejao deal, the likelihood of them "tanking" is much more expected than if they had chose to ride with Brook. Do you understand what I mean by that? 


And take it easy bud, you're starting to lean into a ad hominem. 
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First of all, it doesn't have to be a top 5 PG. It doesn't even have to be a PG. Just a perimeter player. And quality players for those positions are way more common than legit 7 footers, which Lopez is. So many teams have ruined their destinies by picking centers in drafts and not simply picking the better player. WIth Lopez, Magic wouldn't have this problem.

No, I don't understand what you mean by that because it's a blatant contradiction that doesn't make any sense whatsoever and it's just BS story made up to justify a deal that would send Dwight to the Lakers. You say that they would be losing fans, but at the same time that they should take the Varejao deal as if that would make all of their games sell out. What "expectations" are you talking about exactly? Nobody would expect them to do anything with Lopez alone. And that wouldn't even be a problem because whether they would want it or not, they wouldn't be able to do anything with Lopez alone. And even if they were tanking, which they wouldn't need to, who would blame the Magic for tanking to begin with considering that Lopez was part of a 12-70 record team with the Nets?
 
Nice offseason by the Lakers if they get Dwight.

Ugh.

Lol @ the ESPN basketball experts potentially getting outscooped by the real gm dude again.

Sources confirming Rudolph's report , eh Broussard?
 
Xtapolapacetl said:
First of all, it doesn't have to be a top 5 PG. It doesn't even have to be a PG. Just a perimeter player. And quality players for those positions are way more common than legit 7 footers, which Lopez is. So many teams have ruined their destinies by picking centers in drafts and not simply picking the better player. WIth Lopez, Magic wouldn't have this problem.
No, I don't understand what you mean by that because it's a blatant contradiction that doesn't make any sense whatsoever and it's just BS story made up to justify a deal that would send Dwight to the Lakers. You say that they would be losing fans, but at the same time that they should take the Varejao deal as if that would make all of their games sell out. What "expectations" are you talking about exactly? Nobody would expect them to do anything with Lopez alone. And that wouldn't even be a problem because whether they would want it or not, they wouldn't be able to do anything with Lopez alone. And even if they were tanking, which they wouldn't need to, who would blame the Magic for tanking to begin with considering that Lopez was part of a 12-70 record team with the Nets?
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Ok, perimeter player. 

Team A has a top 3 center

Team B has a top 30 PF

Which team is expected to perform at a higher level? Team A. 

If both Team A and Team B tank, which team will suffer more scrutiny? Team A. 

Does that clear things up for you? 

As for your statement regarding expectations and Lopez alone, a week ago NT seemed to be extremely fond of Lopez. Why shouldn't there be expectations for him? He's supposed to be a top 3 center. 
7thAve btn 31stN33rd St said:
pimp.gif
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Can't see your smiley/jpeg/gif... 

But to add to the topic at hand, 

chris palmer  ‏@ESPNChrisPalmer

Knicks have a Top 5 roster. First round exit is unacceptable.
 
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Rudolph is Howard's friend so I can't blame ESPN for being late on that. Twitter has really made a lot of journalists useless.
 
HTG Designs said:
Somebody tell Clipper management that they can get a title by trading Blake for Dwight strait up. That
will make bth sides "winners" and stop this madness already. Blake seems perfect for a
team called Magic anyway. Where he can have all his higlights which rack up to nothings.
And Dwight got a general in cp and billups, and some hired gunz. Things get real interesting...
Click to expand...

Whoever told you that was strait up wrong. Orlando wants a slew of draft picks. That's the only reason Cleveland/Houston were involved. Draft picks.
 
rck2sactown said:
I'm pretty drunk still.... and this **** is mind blowing
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KD is like yo how he do that?

real talk tho, the magic could have gotten 4 first round picks from the nets and lopez and humprhies....now they are getting garbage first round picks and not even bynum??????? LMAO

how could the lakers even afford dwight though? kobe making 30+ this year dwight is good for 18+ Nash is like 10+ and gasol is 15 as well?

they should honestly resign bynum dude is younger and better offensively and never had major back surgery and is not a baby / problem causer like dwight.
 
Dwight was really at that baseball game to watch the Phillies. The plan is still in place :smokin
 
Sources close to these talks in Las Vegas this week for Summer League explained that Orlando is really not looking for star level talent in return for Howard. As crazy as that may seem the Magic view most of what’s being offered and talked about as undesirable in their long-term vision for the team. That long-term vision includes building the team around the draft and free agency where the players on the roster fit the new culture and concepts being installed by GM Rob Hennigan. Sacrifice. Buy-in to something bigger than yourself. Team play. HoopsWorld
Click to expand...

This dude Hennigan, really thinks he can pull off an OKC... Alright.. Bring on the 3 team.
 
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