***OFFICIAL PHILADELPHIA EAGLES 2011 SEASON THREAD***

[IATT]

[h1]Michael Vick And The Human Factor[/h1]Posted Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:21 PMChris Ryan

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On Sunday afternoon, Michael Vick acted like a human being. Given the reaction that move got, I highly doubt we’ll ever see him act like one again.

After losing to the New York Giants, in a game in which Vick injured his right (non-throwing) hand and took multiple shots to the head, the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback finally went on the offensive, and questioned whether he was getting the same protection afforded to other quarterbacks around the league.

This is what he said: "I just think more precautions should be taken when I'm inside the pocket. If you look at all the replays, I'm on the ground every time and it's unfortunate for myself and it's unfortunate for my team and I'll be lying if I said I wasn't, if I were to sit here and say I wasn't frustrated right now because of that."

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Cry havoc and unleash the dogs of punditry. Trent Dilfer, an analyst on the network that also owns this website, was appalled that Vick had the temerity to complain. The former NFL V.P. of officiating, Mike Pereira, called Vick’s initial complaint and subsequent apology, "a bunch of bull." Despite a defense mounted on the Monday Night Football pregame show by Tom Jackson, Keyshawn Johnson and Cris Carter, a lot of people, members of the media and fans alike, seemed to take issue with his complaining in the first place.

[h4]Previously From Chris Ryan[/h4]
Chris Ryan is a staff writer for Grantland. Follow him on Twitter at @chrisryan77.

Hit & Run: Wild Card Traffic Jam
The Eagles And Giants Start With Opening Remarks
The Reducer: Week 5, Fernando Torres Sings the Blues

And why might that be? Maybe it’s because a lot of people, pundits and fans, just aren’t as comfortable with Vick as they pretend to be. They haven’t come to grips with what he’s done and they haven’t come to grips with the fact that he’s back in the NFL. And because of that, when things like this happen, cracks start to show.

For these critics, Michael Vick is not allowed to complain. Michael Vick is not allowed to make the totally reasonable statement that he needs to be protected “when he is inside the pocket

 

[CJ616]

Anyone know when we're supposed to be getting Brandon Graham back? He could be a factor on the D-line.

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by CJ616

Anyone know when we're supposed to be getting Brandon Graham back? He could be a factor on the D-line.

he's on the PUP so the earliest he can play is week 7; I'd move him to LB much like Tamba Hali because that is where is would probably be most effective.

 

[CJ616]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by CJ616

Anyone know when we're supposed to be getting Brandon Graham back? He could be a factor on the D-line.

he's on the PUP so the earliest he can play is week 7; I'd move him to LB much like Tamba Hali because that is where is would probably be most effective.

True.  He was a pretty good LB in High School.  

 

[IATT]

^ but the chiefs run 3-4


and to be honest.. i think we could run a 3-4, maybe (obviously, it wouldn't be an exclusive look.. given our personal).. jenkins succeeded as an end in the 3-4 up in green bay

we could try to use dixon as the noise tackle

and either laws or patterson as the other DE in it


our present 4-3 DEs were all predicted to be 'LBs' in the 3-4 scheme when they came out, graham included.. and it would be similar to the wide 9, except they would be able to read and then react

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

^ but the chiefs run 3-4


and to be honest.. i think we could run a 3-4, maybe (obviously, it wouldn't be an exclusive look.. given our personal).. jenkins succeeded as an end in the 3-4 up in green bay

we could try to use dixon as the noise tackle

and either laws or patterson as the other DE in it


our present 4-3 DEs were all predicted to be 'LBs' in the 3-4 scheme when they came out, graham included.. and it would be similar to the wide 9, except they would be able to read and then react

The wide 9 makes no sense to me; you hire a new D coordinator and tell him how they are going to play and you need strong LB's for the wide 9 and it is our weakest position.
I really wish the Phillies could run the Eagles organization because they get it; even the Flyers for that matter.

 

[IATT]

also we really need to play our main/only slot corner (hanson) exactly where he is supposed to be, in the slot..

and leave nnamdi on the right and asante or DRC on the left




and i'd actually throw DRC at free safety in long passing situations.. where he can use his speed and basically play center fielder

 

[upptempo8387]

It's sad that 99% of what people say in this thread in terms of improvements to make to this team make more sense than what Castillo/Reid are doing defensively

 

[IATT]

^ if it makes you feel better i started at CB on my high school team that won a state title in florida..

and district title my first year on the team (lost in playoffs).. also moved to safety on long passing downs, hence why i suggested doing that with DRC above.. and a little bit of TB and returned punts/kicks every once and awhile

 

[upptempo8387]

That makes me feel SLIGHTLY better but these guys get paid HUGE money to give their team a chance to win a Superbowl, so even though you have great knowledge of the game, their knowledge is supposed to be so much higher that they deserve these high paying jobs. Yet, they overlook the most simple things.

I might be on my own with this idea, but I think Vick needs to get out of the pocket more. He's becoming too predictable with his sticking in the pocket for too long. You stay in the pocket for 3-4 seconds waiting for a play to develop. If Desean doesn't have his defender beat on a home run play, and the slot receiver(s) aren't open, just run the ball. But rather than trying to juke 3 defenders for a few extra yards and risk injury, just slide feet first and protect the ball. I'd say run out of bounds but players would just ram Vick knowing he's legal for them to injure him.


I was watching the "Miracle at the New Meadowlands" replay on NFL Network the other day and noticed that for the first 3 quarters, he was being a pocket passer. Only ran maybe once or twice for minimal gains. By staying in the pocket, he fell right into the Giants' gameplan. Then in the 4th quarter, when he would see the downfield plays not developing and the pressure from the defensive line was approaching, he just broke out of the pocket for huge gains. THAT'S what the Eagles need him to do. Week 1 against the Rams, he runs for 100 yards. Eagles win by 18. Then the next 2 weeks all he cares about is staying in the pocket and being "patient" and he gets a concussion in week 2 and a hand contusion in week 3. Vick needs to stop worrying about the critics saying he'll never be successful unless he becomes a pocket passer and needs to just work into his strengths. There can be a middle ground achieved. He doesn't have to stay in the pocket 95% of the time, or run with the ball 75% of the time.

 

[IATT]

^ i dont get way we dont run more intermediary crossing routes.. especially when the run is working well and the play action would actually work

every time we run it with either maclin or deseasn, it seems to work (other than when dunta robinson is trying kill one of them).. just send the other deep and it usually draws the coverage

also we dont seem to be running as many screens as we did in years pass

we just to work in more of the short rhythm

- basically see that KC game that kolb started 2 years ago.. or maybe it just might be vick's style, wanting to hold on and hit the longer options on plays



also considering reid scripts the first couple of plays, i don't get way we dont run some no huddle.. considering our speedy guys, this obviously works in our favor (also doesn't give teams time to set up blitzes.. either because of lack of communication or not having the right personnel in)


EDIT:
also, saw a play in the jet/raiders game that would work perfect with us.. they had greene and LT in the back field.. then flexed greene outside.. then ran a screen to the other side with greene

obviously we have the backs, that teams would have to respect whomever we split out

 

[IATT]

also, maclin has been blogging on GQ.. here is the link for anyone who wants to check them out:

http://www.gq.com/about/jeremy-maclin

 

[VinMillerHearn58]

As well as not running many screen passes anymore, I don't see why we aren't running many play action passes? It's clear that we can effectively run the ball with Shady. Why not run more play action passes and give our guys down field a shot? They have to respect Shady's running game.

 

[extraordinary swag]

Via @EaglesInsider on twitter
Michael Vick: "I will be out there on Sunday, regardless. There is a 100 percent chance I'm playing."

Brian Rolle is your new starting WILL LB. (THANK GOD)

 

[IATT]

^

we still need to put our LBs in a position to succeed though.. no LB is going to routinely win battles against Olineman when they are given a free release, which happens due to the wide 9

hell look how ordinary/done ray lewis was looking a couple years ago, before they were able to get their guys upfront back up to standard

Originally Posted by lakersreppa008

As well as not running many screen passes anymore, I don't see why we aren't running many play action passes? It's clear that we can effectively run the ball with Shady. Why not run more play action passes and give our guys down field a shot? They have to respect Shady's running game.

this kills me.. we ran play action ALL THE TIME when mcnabb was here.. and ppl had no real reason to respect it (mainly because we didn't really run the ball.. and also westbrook got hurt alot.. but mainly we didn't really run the ball)

but with shady running so well.. and us actually running the ball.. i dont get why we aren't using the play action to back the defense off, instead of say using the empty backfield formations

 

[Pathos]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

^

we still need to put our LBs in a position to succeed though.. no LB is going to routinely win battles against Olineman when they are given a free release, which happens due to the wide 9

hell look how ordinary/done ray lewis was looking a couple years ago, before they were able to get their guys upfront back up to standard

Originally Posted by lakersreppa008

As well as not running many screen passes anymore, I don't see why we aren't running many play action passes? It's clear that we can effectively run the ball with Shady. Why not run more play action passes and give our guys down field a shot? They have to respect Shady's running game.

this kills me.. we ran play action ALL THE TIME when mcnabb was here.. and ppl had no real reason to respect it (mainly because we didn't really run the ball.. and also westbrook got hurt alot.. but mainly we didn't really run the ball)

but with shady running so well.. and us actually running the ball.. i dont get why we aren't using the play action to back the defense off, instead of say using the empty backfield formations

Exactly, Reid finally have everything going for him on paper and now he decides to flip-flop with play calling

 

[VinMillerHearn58]

From philly.com
Hopefully this work out.

Changes have arrived on defense.

Brian Rolle said he has been elevated to first team weak side linebacker and Nate Allen will be starting at safety in place of Kurt Coleman. Linebacker and safety have been glaring weaknesses early in the season.

Rolle, a sixth round pick, has looked more instinctive and aggressive than Casey Matthews, the fourth round selection he'll replace in the starting line up. Rolle said he will continue to play in some nickel packages as well.

He said he hopes he gets a chance to take on tight end Vernon Davis this weekend.

Allen replaced Coleman Sunday after Coleman missed a tackle, leading to a 74-yard touchdown. He entered training camp as a starter, but was hampered in his recovery from a torn patellar tendon and lost his job to Jarrad Page.

More soon.


Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Rolle-Allen-to-start.html#ixzz1ZGfxOyVe 
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/82985662.html

 

[mrarmageddon]

In addition to Rolle starting, Nate Allen is starting over Coleman per Jeff McClane

 

[upptempo8387]

I'm glad the team is making changes in the lineup defensively rather than sitting around saying "Well, it's too early to panic and change the defensive scheme around too much" Nice to see them taking action early in the season.


My biggest issue, as I see is also an issue with a lot of other Eagles' fans in this thread, is the constant running of zone defense. A zone works better when you have quick corners/strong safeties that can get a ton of interceptions and/or force fumbles when the WR catches the ball.

For example, a team like the Steelers is ideal for a zone defense because they can drop Harrison into the middle of the field to smash any receiver that catches a short pass, and they have Polamalu deep who is fast enough to intercept the ball, yet strong enough to force a fumble. The Eagles have 2 solid cover corners in Nnamdi and DRC, yet they keep running this Wide 9 garbage. Plus, they have Asante who is an interception machine, so with the corners playing man coverage rather than zone, Asante can roam in the middle of the field and try to read the QB's eyes and predict where he will throw the ball. Asante is one of the best in the league at reading the QB.

 

[extraordinary swag]

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

I'm glad the team is making changes in the lineup defensively rather than sitting around saying "Well, it's too early to panic and change the defensive scheme around too much" Nice to see them taking action early in the season.


My biggest issue, as I see is also an issue with a lot of other Eagles' fans in this thread, is the constant running of zone defense. A zone works better when you have quick corners/strong safeties that can get a ton of interceptions and/or force fumbles when the WR catches the ball.

For example, a team like the Steelers is ideal for a zone defense because they can drop Harrison into the middle of the field to smash any receiver that catches a short pass, and they have Polamalu deep who is fast enough to intercept the ball, yet strong enough to force a fumble. The Eagles have 2 solid cover corners in Nnamdi and DRC, yet they keep running this Wide 9 garbage. Plus, they have Asante who is an interception machine, so with the corners playing man coverage rather than zone, Asante can roam in the middle of the field and try to read the QB's eyes and predict where he will throw the ball. Asante is one of the best in the league at reading the QB.

agree 100%, I think they run the zone too much to accomodate Asante and his non tackling %#+
  

 

[stillin729]

anyone hear about Les Bowen and Jeff McLane getting in a fist fight at practice today; Bowen punched him in the head; Bowen is like 30 yrs older 

I heard a statistic of all the 2010/2011 first day draft picks; the Eagles are the only team without a starter from that group 

 

[mrarmageddon]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

anyone hear about Les Bowen and Jeff McLane getting in a fist fight at practice today; Bowen punched him in the head; Bowen is like 30 yrs older 

I heard a statistic of all the 2010/2011 first day draft picks; the Eagles are the only team without a starter from that group 

Haha I was listening to WIP when Howard Eskin called in and broke the story about them fighting.  I saw they had a little twitter beef yesterday

 

[Pathos]

But when Asante reads the quarterback and gets hit with a double move he gets torched

 

[hawkflight6]

UPPTEMPO8387 wrote:

I might be on my own with this idea, but I think Vick needs to get out of the pocket more. He's becoming too predictable with his sticking in the pocket for too long. You stay in the pocket for 3-4 seconds waiting for a play to develop. If Desean doesn't have his defender beat on a home run play, and the slot receiver(s) aren't open, just run the ball. But rather than trying to juke 3 defenders for a few extra yards and risk injury, just slide feet first and protect the ball. I'd say run out of bounds but players would just ram Vick knowing he's legal for them to injure him.




I have been thinking the exact same thing ever since the Atlanta game.
I think its a good idea for several reasons, the first being how effective he is running. Even though Vick has improved his pocket passing the reason he is so dynamic is his ability to get outside and pick up huge amounts of yardage with his legs. I know QB's are supposed to throw the ball, but if he sees an open lane and can pick up a first down why shouldn't he just run the ball? It makes no sense to me why you would try to take that away from him.

I also think it could help him avoid hits, when he's in the pocket standing straight up trying to pass and he gets hit he has no way to protect himself. If he's outside of the pocket more times than not he will be able to see the hits coming and can protect and brace himself for the hit, or slide if he has too. That's one thing I think he can improve, I know he is reluctant to do slide but I would like to see him start doing that more because we need him to play more than just the first half of every game.

 

[VinMillerHearn58]

I think what we should do with Nnamdi is give him that Revis role. Force his made to face him 1 on 1 and keep Nnamdi and his guy on an island. Even though he hasn't been playing up to his standards, I trust that he will get his act together.