***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Belgium]

I get it, but it's still ridiculous to me how people rely more on temperament than the actual stance of the two candidates.

I sat there and listened to Pence say almost nothing for a 1.5 hours. He couldn't defend much and in most cases didn't even attempt to do so. He just stuck to a few specific talking points. That and his inability to admit that there is systemic bias in the police department while at the same time saying we need huge criminal justice reform in response to the statistics proving so I just can't get past.

Kaine started out nervous. He didn't seem comfortable, and looked unsure of himself, but eventually I thought he seemed to get things together.

Pence definitely had the better temperament, but he said nothing, and when he was actually answering questions I strongly disagreed with him.

So what do we base the winner of a debate on? It seems everyone has a different standard. I thought Kaine won handily, but I see there's a large group of people who think Pence did a great job.

In terms of substance I definitely think Kaine washed Pence throughout most of the debate. He hammered him with a lot of issues he struggled to defend like you said. Pence trying to defend stop and frisk and talking about "we need to stop talking about systemic bias" was painful to watch.

But substance is very subjective. So I don't think that's the only element that determines a victor of the debate. People who support Hillary are gonna favor Kaine and Trump supporters are gonna favor Pence on substance. So I think it's better to have 2 kinds of victors. Substance is subjective so I also look at the parts of debating that don't involve injecting my personal bias into it. Which leaves composure, delivery, ...

Pence was calm, calculated and looked like he'd done a hundred debates before throughout the whole thing. His delivery was also a lot better than Kaine, which helped mask his empty answers and dancing around topics. Kaine appeared quite nervous and the interrupting certainly didn't help that.

At some points he really nailed his delivery but he also appeared shaky in other instances.

Pence definitely outshined Kaine in that regard, so I would say Pence came out as the better debater

 

[Kimchi Papi]

From ninja's mans & em @FiveThirtyEight. Keeps pushing further & further towards Hillary.

pence was much more composed than Kaine but the substance of what pence said was so wildly inaccurate at times, it took away from his performance. He also took a long time to get to his actual points because he tried to interlace stories about uncle Dennis & little Johnny from Gary, IN. Factually, pence continued to prove he & his running mate live in an alternate universe.

The bottom line though, the debate last night will not move the needle in any other way than what's currently trending. I'll repeat again, Hilary will win by a comfortable enough margin.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Can't disagree with any of that. My bias is showing.

 

[Belgium]

A little irony though, while Pence was talking about denying he was part of an "insult-driven campaign", da Donald was tweeting insults about Kaine 

 

[essential1]

It's a Pence won the immediate reaction of the debate.

But he will lose in the following days, because he gave Hillary the ammo for ads on him with saying Trump never said things he clearly said.

The cycle will be dominated by Pence's lack of knowledge of his running mate as opposed to his poise.

Either way, it was a unremarkable debate that neither person really did anything to help or hurt their presidential candidate.

 

[wubalubadubdub]

Funny reading this thread and then watching/reading mainstream media. Seems like most think Pence won and kaine was an interrupting gnat with corny one liners.

I didn't watch any if it. I think it's inconsequential. Most of what i read about Pence sounds like he has some terrible social views.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I don't fault Kaine for interrupting when he did because it's completely natural to be chomping at the bit when you hear someone spew & peddle BS. Sheeet, look at how some of us react to when ninja & reachin' rico post.

I thought Kaine held a clinic on the old backward-step-pivot-forward debating technique.

When it came to defending chubby aka male sarah palin, pence was backed into a corner & Kaine did a great job of keeping him there & pinning him in with facts.

- The "Mexican Thing".
- The "birther thing".
- NATO comments
- Nukes for everyone
- The Indiana judge
- The John McCain insult.

Kaine would then say, "How can you defend that" & there was nothing that beady eyed b*****d could do...

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

I obviously don't agree on any of Pence's stances but that constant interruption/cutting off from Kaine got mad annoying.

They should do these debates like radio shows and just cut one dude's mike off while the other speaking.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Maybe it's someone else. But pence looks like a good option imo.

Hillary will be vulnerable in 2020, no doubt. But a dude like Pence is exactly the type of person that she can beat.

He is way too socially conservative for a general, and the GOP primary base will make sure he shows is socially conservative colors.

You have to be socially conservative to make through the primary, so any republican candidate will be pretty close to Pence's social conservatism, for me it becomes who can sell it it in the most palatable way and Mike Pence's abortion answer while I don't agree with the substance of it,

he has a pleasant and seemingly compassionate demeanor to make it sound like it's not as bad as it seems.



The gay stuff will be tough for Pence, but there is not perfect republican candidate on the horizon and Mike Pence looks way more presidential than most of the other possible republicans.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

pence & others of his ilk are far too right. Those types of republican candidates will play well with the idiot deplorable base but it won't win over moderate voters. In this day & age, you need the LGBT vote, the immigrant vote, the minority vote, & the youth vote. None of what the republicans have talked about this cycle has really resonated enough with these groups. If they solely focused more on the economy & had a better plan than the rebirth of trickle down economics, they might've won the race.

Like I've said before, the gop never learned from what lost them the 2012 election & instead went in the direction that lost them that election. Now, they've become a straight dumpster fire with chubby aka male sarah palin. Even worse, their leadership & top candidates were forced to acquiesce in endorsing the fool after trashing him publicly previous to that.

The fact of the matter is that America has evolved/grown demographically speaking & the republican party hasn't down so to reflect the changes or better, they're being seen now for what they really are. They might as well start wear swastikas at this point because a lot of them are talking about their versions of the "final solution" especially chubby aka male sarah palin.

 

[frshstunna]

Pence couldn't even defend or support Trump on alotta things ...his default answer was "he didn't say that" or "that's not what he really meant " ...never a good look when u are supposed to be backing somebody, especially when u VP for the candidate who supposed to tell it exactly like it is

 

[everysingletime]

I find Pence even more dangerous than Donald Trump if you're a minority or lesbian/gay

 

[Kimchi Papi]

^ I bet we'd find a hood & white robe in his closet... Maybe even a red one...

 

[Kimchi Papi]

koch industries employee #101...

 

[noskey]

I find Pence even more dangerous than Donald Trump if you're a minority or lesbian/gay

His track record proves it. He took Indiana and turned it into a breeding ground for hate and bigotry. As Psk said, I wouldn't be surprised if he's got some robes in his closet.

 

[Armada]

koch industries employee #101...

the last one with Pence 

 

[Kimchi Papi]

What pence looked like every time the truth smacked him in the face... Poor fella looked like he was cornered in punch out...

 

[MVP]

Drumpf gets docked for his temperament all the time which I run is a huge reason why Pence looks so "good". He won the battle but may have literally lost the war at the same time. Drumpf is going to have to defend his stances that are polar opposites from Pence while simultaneously having to wonder why his VP refused to defend him on anything.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Said the koch industries employee in last night's VP debate, lie #4080...

The Trump Foundation is a private family foundation and they give virtually every cent to charitable causes

New revelations that chubby' aka male sarah palin used charity dollars for presidential campaign.

Using the site he mentioned in the presidential debate... McClatchyDC...

Real Clear Politics tracked a series of donations Trump made through his foundation between 2011 and 2014 totaling at least $286,000 to right-leaning policy groups. The analysis found that timing of the donations lined up with endorsements from such groups or speaking invitations at conferences and events. These engagements gave him a stage and access to the voters he would later hope to court during his unconventional presidential campaign.

The Washington Post revealed Trump used foundation money to buy items at charity auctions he personally kept, including a football helmet signed by Tim Tebow and two portraits of Trump.

Real Clear Politics discovered that in 2013 the Trump Foundation, which is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, donated $10,000 to The Family Leader, which is a 501(c)(4) non-profit that can politically organize and lobby for policy. Political activity is not allowed by 501(c)(3) organizations. The donation was not appropriately recorded on the organization’s tax filings, which is a violation of tax law even if it was a mistake

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article105849807.html

 

[whywesteppin]

watching that video makes me mad. pence flat out lying for 2 hours. i knew it but maybe the average American did not.

da deplorable devil in disguise.

 

[wavycrocket]

I can't stand trump....but Kimchi Papi , you gotta give up the "Chubby aka male Sarah Palin" thing, man .

Bothers me when I read it for some reason

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Like I said last night & earlier... He did look composed compared to Kaine but almost all of his replies were lies. If you didn't know any better, you would've thought he did very well.

The amazing & comical thing about the idiot deplorables is how grossly misinformed they are & how they ignorantly argue based on lies/propaganda that have been spoon fed to them.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I can't stand trump....but Kimchi Papi , you gotta give up the "Chubby aka male Sarah Palin" thing, man .

Bothers me when I read it for some reason

I will hence forth always call him that... He doesn't deserve anything else... He's chubby & he's as smart as sarah palin is... Get used to it bub... Just like the nfl team in Baltimore, I'll always refer to them as the ratbirds... I don't even put it in caps because it doesn't deserve that recognition.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[MVP]

I don't think the deplorables are ignorant of the facts, most know they are lying, they just don't care.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I don't think the deplorables are ignorant of the facts, most know they are lying, they just don't care.

No I've come across some that really didn't know any better. They've hear these lines from the gop campaign & they've chosen to accept them.