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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
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In the mid-90s I would have more or less accepted that the Dems and GOP were around the same place on immigration, maybe all the way through the early 2000s.
The only real difference was how much underlying white nationalism was animating the GOP's position, and preventing them from agreeing to comprehensive reforms.
Now, it is really different.
If the Dems wrote an immigration plan and the GOP wrote one, they would be wildly different. ICE and Border agents make it clear which party they prefer too.
The only real difference was how much underlying white nationalism was animating the GOP's position, and preventing them from agreeing to comprehensive reforms.
Now, it is really different.
If the Dems wrote an immigration plan and the GOP wrote one, they would be wildly different. ICE and Border agents make it clear which party they prefer too.
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Nice that the party you voted for finally decided to stop blocking this
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I'm sure Manchin will tout that as a victory of Bipartisanship in the Senate. See we can get things done together!
meanwhile
meanwhile
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i don't mean to focus this solely on immigration. i think this is one of the many examples of how despite how bad your tribe looks in an area, an individual won't say anything about it because of being they belong in that tribe.
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The military doesn't know where 25 of its mortars are...
Robinette, brah, please find them.
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Because they’re complete failures in life. Bunch of COD mall cops
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This was against multiple votes your way
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That's a simplistic take.
There's a difference between:
- sacking the entirety of the State department (which executes immigration policies and manages would-be immigrants through embassies)
- keeping refugees on the other side of the border in hostile environments and slowing down the intake process
- separating children from their families in an effort to discourage people from coming here
and planning to increase legal immigration into the country.
The fact is, the immigration system of the US is broken, but that's not where the comparison should be made between red and blue "tribes." The comparison should be made on how both parties responds to the situation. On one hand, you have republicans who are desperately trying to completely close the country off to those who don't fit the WASP mold, and on the other, you have democrats who are trying to make immigration more efficient for all who try to move here. Efficiency doesn't mean open borders: it means getting people out of the immigration purgatory much faster than what we're doing right now.
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The military doesn't know where 25 of its mortars are...
Robinette, brah, please find them.
Has anyone checked Alex Jones' basement?
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They ok, there might be some truth to that but like I said there are completely logical and justified reasons for that phenomenon too.
It is not as simple as just agree with what some on your side says and does.
Context matters, nuance matters, complexities matters, so it is no surprise that people judge who are the good actors and give them more leeway. It is not all marked partisanship
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when your "tribe" messes up, i fully expect the person to be critical of it & acknowledge it, not make excuses for it. i'm not talking about the politicians, i'm talking about our fellow Americans.
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Famb, with all due respect, it seems you are just moving the goal post-move now.
Like where do you see a lack of Americans calling out Americans?
Because if that place does exists, well god damn, it must be two Americas.
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in terms of politics, it's really lackluster imo. for instance, a bunch of republicans not admitting when the positions their side takes completely suck & them agreeing 100% with everything their politicians do. similar story with democrats.
tribalism extends outside of politics
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You moved the goal post again famb
Sorry but this is just a both sides take now
Yes tribalism exists. Ok, and...
You want to give a nuanced breakdown on an issue you think the Democratic Party supports and their voters blindly back them up on it, then give an example and present a cogent argument
Because right now you are indulging in the same type of rhetoric you complained about from the "tribes"...
Partisanship exists for valid reasons too. Plus there is tons of disagreement within the left, and while not as much as the left, there is on the right too.
If you want to see the frictions that exist among "the tribes", then just look at how primaries play out. The NYC mayoral race is happening right now and the conflict within the "tribe" is pretty damn obvious.
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You moved the goal post again
Sorry but this is just a rather weak both sides take now
Yes tribalism exists. Ok, and...
1. can you explain how i am moving the goal post?
2. lol you are spending a lot of time over a person who's being critical of tribalism, which has been my argument the entire time. just say you have no issue with it & move on.
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1. This is was immigration, then you were not talking just immigration, then you were not talking about politics you were talking about Americans, then you are not talking about Americans generally you are talking about politics. That is moving the goal post. You posted a meme equating Harris and Trump, yet you have not put forward a single cogent argument on that issue.
2. I am responding to your post, it works both ways famb, you can choose to not respond to my responses and let it die. For someone that complains about people not being challenging their ideological allies, it would seem you have an issue with someone challenging your views.
Funny how that works.
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1. This is was immigration, then you were not talking just immigration, then you were not talking about politics you were talking about Americans, then you are not talking about Americans generally you are talking about politics. That is moving the goal post. You posted a meme equating Harris and Trump, yet you have not put forward a single cogent argument on that issue.
2. I am responding to your post, it works both ways famb, you can choose to not respond to my responses and let it die. For someone that complains about people not being challenging their ideological allies, it would seem you have an issue with someone challenging your views.
Funny how that works.
1. lol the times you think i changed the goal post was me responding to what was said beforehand, hence later in one of my posts "i don't mean to focus this solely on immigration. i think this is one of the many examples of how despite how bad your tribe looks in an area, an individual won't say anything about it because of being they belong in that tribe." - common theme was about tribalism tho
2. the only intention i had for posting it was being critical of tribalism, which i think is a net bad. have no issue with someone challenging my views, but it seems like we aren't even talking about the same subject.
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Whatever famb, I'm climbing out of this rabbit hole. You can have it
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"back the blue" only when minorities are getting murdered, not when they're defending politicians against domestic terrorists at the capitol
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Snitching on themselves...
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Dems need to run ads with Capitol Police airing their grievances during the 2022 midterms
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If you had just said, there people who support (Democrat) policies and politicians for tribal reasons and that can be problematic, I don’t think you’d have gotten much pushback - even if you added nothing to back it up. It’s so true, it’s boring.
The problem is that by way of evidence, you posted a meme that only works in one of two ways. The first way is you assume that other people are incapable of understanding context. Yes, if people were ok with Harris‘s statement on not Trump‘s and they based that opinion solely on their respective parties, then I guess you’d have an example of blind partisanship. But you and the meme have failed to establish that anyone who holds those respective views has based them solely on party membership. And there’s ample evidence available to anyone who’s even remotely paying attention that the words come from completely different places.
Of course, I would have also thought that there was ample evidence to anyone even remotely paying attention that Biden’s immigration approach is being criticized from some members of the left...
But the real problem with the meme is that the other way it works is if there actually is no separation between the Trump and Biden approach to the border. And so it looks dangerously reductive and counterproductive to real positive change.
So since you posted the meme, which do you agree with: is it that there’s no difference between Trump and Biden (Harris) on immigration or that rank and file Democrats are too stupid to understand that difference?
