***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Centrist really piss me the **** off because they whine about the deficit and national debt, then vote for this ****

Look at the chart, previous Democratic presidents (Obama and Clinton) were able to lower the deficit because their decreased or held constant the defense budget.

I would prefer the defense budget be slashed, but at least and I can have some small amount of respect for people that vote for this type of stuff, AND want a larger social safety net, AND don't go on TV and whine about deficits

 

[yobyellav]

This country and their stupid priorities

How else are police departments in cities of 50,00 people going to get surplus equipment like tanks and night vision goggles?

 

[dwalk31]

This week is gonna be a massive **** show in DC because the GOP and Dem centrist have decided that performative nonsense and their donors as more important than actually governing

So the progressives and liberals that take governing seriously, have to sit back and deal with this nonsense

It seems that the goal has now shifted to getting important legislation past Democratic moderates.

 

[blastercombo]

Some say that aepps20 has the Thomas Sowell mindset but I think that Thomas Sowell has the aepps20 mindset.

#smashmoutheconomics

So do you not respect people that don’t call you ******? Does that logic work the other direction?

 

[blastercombo]

It seems that the goal has now shifted to getting important legislation past Democratic moderates.

Seems like you support pedos and want to control women’s privates. Why do you?

 

[IATT]

It seems that the goal has now shifted

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[Nike Jordan]

I think that's a parody account.

Or it could be real. You never can tell with the GOP now.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[kingfoamnyc]

 

[elpablo21]

 

[IATT]

 

[RustyShackleford]

When the great defund the police debate was going on last year, I believe my first post was about how Police Departments pretty much veto policy they don't believe in by not complying...


This is a massive issue with trying to institute reforms by simply using the carrot. Police departments feel they don't need to answer to the citizens they are paid to serve.

So what is the plan when cities pump money into police departments, they take it, then they don't institute the reforms?

 

[wavycrocket]

Somebody taking work off aepps20 block. Parody account gone viral

 

[osh kosh bosh]

When the great defund the police debate was going on last year, I believe my first post was about how Police Departments pretty much veto policy they don't believe in by not complying...


This is a massive issue with trying to institute reforms by simply using the carrot. Police departments feel they don't need to answer to the citizens they are paid to serve.

So what is the plan when cities pump money into police departments, they take it, then they don't institute the reforms?

imo it increases the power of the police unions when politicians support unpopular, counter-productive rhetoric.

I agree with purging the police as an idea, but imo you have a better chance of doing that with carrots, as i said back then it's prob going to cost more moneyh not less.

basically bribing toxic officers to retire early.
increasing pay for detectives and requiring a college degree.
hiring more poc officers and women.

that way you erode the conservative base of the police union and increase the number of liberals and progressives.


imo
people want accountable and effective policing

but time after time, voters are willing to abandon accountability for what they perceive to be effective.
can't let police unions trick people into making that trade.

 

[dacomeup]

timely with the policing discussion

 

[dacomeup]

but time after time, voters are willing to abandon accountability for what they perceive to be effective.
can't let police unions trick people into making that trade

What’s your proposed change here then? Fear mongering through dog whistles, disinformation and white supremacist tactics is always going to win out.

 

[gry60]

basically bribing toxic officers to retire early.

Your approach might work (I think it can), but it will probably take a lot of babysitting to make sure that the toxic, senior officers do not poison the well before leaving since they usually are in position to train newcomers.

The purge needs to happen from the top down to be effective (e.g. promoting officers who reflect the values we want the police to have), but that won't happen without the establishment of a national police or a national oversight board because most of the cops at the top of local and state agencies support the mentality that cops should exist and operate outside the boundaries of the law, and they will promote those with a similar mindset.

people want accountable and effective policing

but time after time, voters are willing to abandon accountability for what they perceive to be effective.

Unfortunately, the solutions to a lot of problems in this country lie in centralizing critical institutions (public safety, health, and education), and the message of strengthening the federal government plays very well for conservatives during elections.

The alternative is to implement a clean break from the current law enforcement system, but that can't happen without proper preparation. Any community that wants to change its L.E. structure this way needs to understand the extra amount of scrutiny they will face, and they'll still need to guarantee the safety of its residents through a collective effort (easier said than done) while they reorganize their police department to be more reflective of the values of accountability and respect towards community members.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The alternative is to implement a clean break from the current law enforcement system, but that can't happen without proper preparation. Any community that wants to change its L.E. structure this way needs to understand the extra amount of scrutiny they will face, and they'll still need to guarantee the safety of its residents through a collective effort (easier said than done) while they reorganize their police department to be more reflective of the values of accountability and respect towards community members.

hmmm respectfully, i don't know what this means.
practically what do you mean by a clean break from the current law enforcement system?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

What’s your proposed change here then? Fear mongering through dog whistles, disinformation and white supremacist tactics is always going to win out.

You have to win a political battle against the police unions locally.
it won't be easy, that's why it's important to prioritize effectiveness over idealism.

imo "I am willing to increase officer pay, increase officer training, hire more officers provide more resources, remove dealing with metal health and domestic issues off your plate if we institute more accountability measures"
imo that is a winning political message that you can take to voters.


it needs to be increased effectiveness combined with accountability.

running on accountability alone engenders racial backlash and is a good way to make police unions more powerful.

 

[RustyShackleford]

imo it increases the power of the police unions when politicians support unpopular, counter-productive rhetoric.

I agree with purging the police as an idea, but imo you have a better chance of doing that with carrots, as i said back then it's prob going to cost more moneyh not less.

basically bribing toxic officers to retire early.
increasing pay for detectives and requiring a college degree.
hiring more poc officers and women.

that way you erode the conservative base of the police union and increase the number of liberals and progressives.


imo
people want accountable and effective policing

but time after time, voters are willing to abandon accountability for what they perceive to be effective.
can't let police unions trick people into making that trade.

-But again, most liberal and progressive politicians didn't support unpopular or counterproductive rhetoric. The municipal government, which controls most of the spending on law enforcement, are often pro-police. The Democratic party actually gave more money to cities for police since last year. Many liberal cities didn't even follow through with their accountability measures.

The crime wave (which was really a misrepresented increase in murders) has resulted in police budgets growing on aggregate, not shrinking. Places they seem not to be growing, accounting tricks are being used to hide overtime pay.

There was this great threat of the liberal left being captured by out-of-touch progressives, and none of that had come to fruition. Yet I'm still to believe it is some major threat?

-How much thought is being put into how exactly offering these carrots will work? Large sums of money were injected into police forces in the 90s, police forces dudes just recruited more ****heads to fill up their ranks. What carrot is gonna prevent that from happening? We are just gonna hope again that people that run police forces will hire a massive number of cops to change the culture around policing?

For someone that criticizes shallow liberal solutions to problems, right now you are suggesting that to overcome one of the largest hurdles to reform is ideologically diversifying police forces. Right now the people most eager to join police forces are non-college-educated white men. Seems like there is a major risk that police forces will replace old ****heads with new ****heads. I might be wrong on this, but many more police forces have become more white than less white in recent years. Throwing money at this situation doesn't seem like it will reverse this trend.

Also, I want to know what carrot is gonna stop police officers on the street from vetoing reforms they don't like. Or what carrot is gonna make police commanders that won't comply with civilian oversight be willing to own their own purge their ranks if you promise to give them more funding.

Honestly, I think reformers like yourself think that their plans are better than the progressive they hate so that is enough. But never truly consider how their plans will fail to bring desired reforms.

Whether we defund the police or not, or try to purge ****head from their rankings, governments at all levels need to be willing to use the stick more often.

There need to be harsh legal, and civil consequences for police misconduct beyond termination. I don't think there is any getting around that. In places where Dems have the numbers, centrists and liberals need to cut the bull**** and pull the trigger on that.

 

[gry60]

hmmm respectfully, i don't know what this means.
practically what do you mean by a clean break from the current law enforcement system?

Letting all these clowns go.

A real purge.

The City that Really Did Abolish the Police

And rebuilt the department from the ground up. The strange, hopeful, politically complicated story of Camden, N.J.

www.politico.com

Over the past two weeks, Camden has become an example of reform that works—cited in articles, tweets and on network shows as an example of what can go right. And it’s true that the reforms produced real change in the statistics: The excessive use of force rates plummeted. The homicide rate decreased. And new incentives laid the groundwork for a completely new understanding of what it meant to be a good cop.

The reforms carry lessons for what it takes to transform the police in any city. They ultimately amounted to nothing less than a reboot of the culture of policing in Camden, changing the way every beat cop in the city did his or her job. And they also required enough political will at the top—all the way to the governor—to survive opposition from police unions and some residents. The case of Camden shows that if there’s enough motivation to blow it all up and start over from both the top and the bottom, reforming a police force is achievable.