***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

No connection its just different. Our parents and grandparents been voting dem our whole lives. And if you are black and from the south you were raised that way. So I think a lot men just feel like they are being lied to. Especially when they pockets are hurting and the cost of everything is rising. Im not a republican but I cant blame ppl for feeling like they felt unheard

Unfortunately only so much explaining you can actually do when people don’t really understand how the system works.. or supposed to work

And then people get defensive about their ignorance and the whole conversation breaks down

Like the amount of people quick to say “well why she ain’t doing the things she says she’s going do now”.. skipping over she’s not president and that republicans control the house and the BS with manchin and sinema

 

[essential1]

Hopefully what Democratic Party can learn when they show up to the car crash they are asked to fix in 2-4 years……

They don’t ask the car crasher how to fix his car. And don’t tout how great of a driver he is when his license suspension is up.

 

[finessence]

No connection its just different. Our parents and grandparents been voting dem our whole lives. And if you are black and from the south you were raised that way. So I think a lot men just feel like they are being lied to. Especially when they pockets are hurting and the cost of everything is rising. Im not a republican but I cant blame ppl for feeling like they felt unheard

…. Because a Democratic president (Franklin D Roosevelt) created things like welfare and social security….(the new deal)

If it were up to the Republican Party during that era, black people would never be allowed to vote. That’s the reason our grandparents were loyal to the Democratic Party.

I’m from the south as well. They need to teach history better.

 

[ballinsam23]

nah we don't have to lie.

there are not a lot of people struggling right now. american at full employment. income is rising in lower classes.
economy is growing better than anywhere else on the planet.


people just really really hate inflation. thats what this is about.

Sure the markets are raging, but the markets does not equal the economy.

Sure we're adding 100k jobs a month, but who is even taking these jobs and what jobs are these

No ones wages are increasing, but prices are still too high. No one can afford a house, yet alone putting money aside into investments.

Most of America still living paycheck to paycheck. Idk who's to blame for that.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

are you saying we need to cater to the debauchery to gain their votes?

There is an Andrew Tate problem. We can't ignore some of the systemic and ideological issues.

no im saying Democrats and dem aligned media should say;

"America is about freedom, liberty and opportunity. everyone one should have access to the american dream!! "

instead of;

That's why, instead of weaponizing identity policies and intersectionalities, we need to evoke the class struggles and start looking into organizing outside these systems that serves the oligarchies.

 

[NickFolarin]

…. Because a Democratic president (Franklin D Roosevelt) created things like welfare and social security….

If it were up to the Republican Party during that era, black people would never be allowed to vote. That’s the reason our grandparents were loyal to the Democratic Party.

I’m from the south as well. They need to teach history better.

This is the history they are trying to erase

 

[pmatic]

 

[IATT]

I wonder when will be the next time we see a woman candidate

 

[maq25060]

To add to this point



That's 100% a massive fumble all things considered given the stakes and felt entirely avoidable immediately when Biden dropped out.

Gonna end up being a historic wasted opportunity

I look at these numbers and still just see a country that didn't want to vote for a black woman.

 

[had pants]

 

[gry60]

I remember this tactic back in 2016 too. Trump ran on pitting Hillary Clinton as a warmonger, and many thought U.S. was going to be pushed to go to war against Iran.

Didn't Trump say all these wars would not have happened under him? Going off on how he can tell Putin to stop, and he would?

He killed an Iranian general.

He expanded the drone program and hid the death count.

But go on.

Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama's numbers

Trump has escalated the number of U.S. drone strikes overseas, and made the program even more secretive.

chicago.suntimes.com

I keep saying this: y'all got eyes, but you don't want to see. According to you, the regulars in this thread are falling for propaganda, but when the numbers come out, it's always the opposite.

 

[IATT]

This is the history they are trying to erase

A lot of people’s parents/grandparents got pics like this

 

[atlsfinest]

You are right on all fronts. But you can't on one side say this is the most important election ever, and then on the other have strong candidates not wanting to "burn political capital"

That kind of hypocrisy is what voters saw right through and part of the reason Kamala got smoked

A lot of the high profile Democrats who could have hopped in the race probably saw the race as unwinnable given the timeline and circumstances (and it looks like they were right).

Among my Trump supporting friends they kept repeating the line "she's been installed", "no one voted for her", "she performed so poorly in the 2020 primary and now she wants to be president?". There's no real refuting that argument because it's true. My argument to that would was "well if nobody likes Kamala and Democrats are going against the will of their base then vote for her"... And that's exactly what happened, The turnout numbers between Biden and Harris are pretty startling. Millions of Democrats just didn't vote at all.

Looking back with the benefit of hindsight, maybe they should have just had an open primary as opposed to forcing a candidate through. It would have been ugly, and messy and given the candidate even less time but at least then Democratic voters could have said "this is the candidate who we wanted".

This why I don't think progressives are serious.

This election, the choice shouldn't have been about people, so Harris aligning herself with conservatives wouldn't have been an issue when facing the prospect of living under a second Trump government.

It's yet another example of folks practicing zero-sum thinking, and it's especially damning for that group, because they're the ones who generally proclaim to be about good policy for all Americans.

They can certainly knit more of those pink hats though... Let's see where that gets them...

A lot of progressives are not serious people. They are terminally online and would rather simply complain than actually do the hard work of getting a candidate elected and governing.



They do goofy things like this. They will criticize Democrats, tell the world they are not voting for Harris and vote for Jill Stein and then call people who vote for Trump white supremacists. Just an unserious bunch of people. They are just the left wing version of libertarians. They're never going to win, they know that their policies will never be implemented but they feel as though they have moral superiority when they argue online

 

[RustyShackleford]

Thanks everyone for the well wishes.

I deeply appreciate it.

Even though this is just a sneaker forum to most, being on NT has always had a positive impact in my life over the years. Hopefully when stuff turns around and I'm in a better space I can jump back in.

I read some of the post in here this morning. And yeah, the thread is in complete shambles, as expected.

All I will say is that the morning after a bad election result doesn't confirm all of our priors. Whatever they may be.

Progressives got some stuff wrong, so did centrists.

Kamala ran a good campaign, but it wasn't perfect. Buts perhaps perfect won't have been enough anyway with what has been happening in the rest of the world.

Dems will have to adjust, of course. But some things are out of their control.

But again, thanks for the kind words

 

[JMB10215]

nah we don't have to lie.

there are not a lot of people struggling right now. american at full employment. income is rising in lower classes.
economy is growing better than anywhere else on the planet.


people just really really hate inflation. thats what this is about.

Where you stay? Im not seeing that over here. But if those are the facts then I guess

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Sure the markets are raging, but the markets does not equal the economy.

nah these are just talking points that aren't true.

63% of americans are invested in the market. so a majority of americans benefit from that.

No ones wages are increasing, but prices are still too high.

nope

No one can afford a house, yet alone putting money aside into investments.

nope

the problem with housing is lack of supply.
the lack of supply is caused by government over regulation.
the market can build cheap houses no problem. its simply illegal to do so.

Most of America still living paycheck to paycheck. Idk who's to blame for that.

nope household savings rates are in a solid place

people just hate inflation. i don't think it goes any deeper than that

 

[sfc415]

We'll agree to disagree. For clarification, are you saying we need to cater to the debauchery to gain their votes?

There is an Andrew Tate problem. We can't ignore some of the systemic and ideological issues.

That's why, instead of weaponizing identity policies and intersectionalities, we need to evoke the class struggles and start looking into organizing outside these systems that serves the oligarchies.

I think what he’s saying is the “I’m a non binary pink haired horn rimmed glasses (insert 1000 more social media adjectives here) and whoever doesn’t agree with me 100% is a bigot” is what turns people off and pushes them towards the Andrew Tate types.

I mean, if you ask me to share my beliefs and values with these people, I actually agree with them on almost everything, but even I get irritated by that crowd. In my younger days, I would’ve purposely instigated them just to make them mad for my own entertainment, even if I’ve voted Democrat since I turned 18.

People who vote for Trump/Republicans take that reaction to the next level and will vote against their best interests just to spite the people who called them bigots, trash, etc even if there’s truth to it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

when i was a young progressive guy,

I thought Obama was wrong to worry so much about inflation in his first term after the financial crisis.


turns out i was so soo sooooooo wrong.
catastrophically wrong.

people hate inflation soooo much. jesus its crazy. Obama's' old advisors were correct.


personally i think that's crazy, its better to get to full employment faster, but clearly the voters disagree.

 

[JMB10215]

…. Because a Democratic president (Franklin D Roosevelt) created things like welfare and social security….

If it were up to the Republican Party during that era, black people would never be allowed to vote. That’s the reason our grandparents were loyal to the Democratic Party.

I’m from the south as well. They need to teach history better.

There some people that feel like those programs destroyed the black community. And some that feel like the Dems never had our interest but just converted their goals for votes. Didn't republicans pass every civil rights bill? I'll defer to your knowledge and again excuse my ignorance. Maybe the internet and the misinformation is the issue.

 

[ballinsam23]

osh kosh bosh all those articles are just completely not true. Atleast not in NY or Cali or any major city in neighborhoods where people actually want to live

Whats the % of income growth in the last 5 years? Compared to the % of how much houses/groceries/etc grew in the last 5 years.

Minimum wage went from $15 to $16. Great. Does that mean wages increased and everyone in the lower class can afford everything now?

Of those 63% of people who invest into the market, how much are they investing?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Thanks everyone for the well wishes.

I deeply appreciate it.

Even though this is just a sneaker forum to most, being on NT has always had a positive impact in my life over the years. Hopefully when stuff turns around and I'm in a better space I can jump back in.

I read some of the post in here this morning. And yeah, the thread is in complete shambles, as expected.

All I will say is that the morning after a bad election result doesn't confirm all of our priors. Whatever they may be.

Progressives got some stuff wrong, so did centrists.

Kamala ran a good campaign, but it wasn't perfect. Buts perhaps perfect won't have been enough anyway with what has been happening in the rest of the world.

Dems will have to adjust, of course. But some things are out of their control.

But again, thanks for the kind words

when you post your first 3 paragraph response to one of my bad takes;

 

[pmatic]

 

[MVP]

nah we don't have to lie.

there are not a lot of people struggling right now. american at full employment. income is rising in lower classes.
economy is growing better than anywhere else on the planet.


people just really really hate inflation. thats what this is about.

We'll actually be about to see the litmus test in real time if his economic "policy" is enacted.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the consternation won't be nearly as much as it is now, even though people will be paying even more for goods, the overall economy won't be a strong as it is now, etc.

Then we'll get back and be honest about the real reasons things broke the way they did.

I know you like to play like **** is a game and some kind of convenient argument to banter back and forth being Canadian, but we're having to live this ****. A lot of people are not only distraught but downright scared at what could be lurking around the corner.

I'd just say to y'all in general, be safe, take care of your own, and don't take the bait especially in these tense moments over the next few months.

I'm feeling pretty down myself but ultimately not surprised. The analysis of the Democratic party as viable moving forward is something that's going to happen, but in the meantime we need to continue to fight for human decency and right, cause this is going to give a lot of people excuses to show their entire *** now.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

osh kosh bosh all those articles are just completely not true. Atleast not in NY or Cali or any major city in neighborhoods where people actually want to live

Whats the % of income growth in the last 5 years? Compared to the % of how much houses/groceries/etc grew in the last 5 years.

Minimum wage went from $15 to $16. Great does that mean wages increased and everyone in the lower class can afford everything now?

these are just the facts man. you can look it up yourself.


people HATE inflation. but we don't gotta pretend like omg its so bad in america.
things could be worse. you could be in canada.

 

[ballinsam23]

This is a double edged sword though. Trump gave everyone free money and they blew it on jewelry sneakers and vacations

So if peoples wages actually increased to a comparable rate compared to everything else they pay for, they'll prob still use it to buy dumb ****.