***Official Political Discussion Thread***

We definitely need to be focusing 100% of our attention on the most poorly worded parts of Bernie’s statement as well as how wealthy, future-Trump voting Brahmins feel about this.

We need to ignore distractions like the exploitative nature of employers having a captive work force that they can deport on a whim. That’s all chaff, that’s all a big red herring.


It’s a new year guys, stay focused on what really matters.
 


I HAD to vote fascist, it costs too much to make omelets every morning and my kids need to eat a lot because once we slide out of out of our ski chalet, it’s non stop skiing.

Repeat that for two weeks straight and you’ll understand how bad the economic situation really is.


Hopefully kicking out all the illegals will make the $30 burgers at the resort cost less,
 


I HAD to vote fascist, it costs too much to make omelets every morning and my kids need to eat a lot because once we slide out of out of our ski chalet, it’s non stop skiing.

Repeat that for two weeks straight and you’ll understand how bad the economic situation really is.


Hopefully kicking out all the illegals will make the $30 burgers at the resort cost less,

🥚 and milk 🥛
 


IMG_5311.jpeg


“We OWNED the trans, with that one.”

“Hell yeah, brother!”

“MAGA”

“Fun is legal again”
 
We definitely need to be focusing 100% of our attention on the most poorly worded parts of Bernie’s statement as well as how wealthy, future-Trump voting Brahmins feel about this.

We need to ignore distractions like the exploitative nature of employers having a captive work force that they can deport on a whim. That’s all chaff, that’s all a big red herring.


It’s a new year guys, stay focused on what really matters.

lying about immigration economics won't work as well for the left.

when immigration restrictions inevitably make everyone poorer, you won't have the appeal of explicit racism to fall back on.

in wrestling parlance. Bernie is going into business for himself.


it's left wing Joe Manchin-ism. but he's not in a swing state.
 
lying about immigration economics won't work as well for the left.

when immigration restrictions inevitably make everyone poorer, you won't have the appeal of explicit racism to fall back on.

in wrestling parlance. Bernie is going into business for himself.


it's left wing Joe Manchin-ism. but he's not in a swing state.

I’m an actual “open borders” guy so I’m not down with nativism.

But whether or not you have an open border or a controlled border or a very tightly controlled border, the immigrants should not be uniquely under the thumb of their employer once they get here. As far as I can tell, that’s Bernie’s focus here.

I’d also agree that, a bigger H1B program probably increases GDP per capita. But it doesn’t matter to the average American since Elon Musk and his boys capture most of the gains. Moreover, upper middle class Americans will be net losers in some cases (and in many, many more cases, will believe that H1-Bs took their sons’ rightful spot in an elite school or a tech company).
 
We definitely need to be focusing 100% of our attention on the most poorly worded parts of Bernie’s statement as well as how wealthy, future-Trump voting Brahmins feel about this.

We need to ignore distractions like the exploitative nature of employers having a captive work force that they can deport on a whim. That’s all chaff, that’s all a big red herring.


It’s a new year guys, stay focused on what really matters.

This is just people focusing on the wrong thing to air out past grievances with the guy. The indentured servitude part of the argument is by far bigger part of the equation and anyone that works in tech/engineering knows it.
 
This is just people focusing on the wrong thing to air out past grievances with the guy. The indentured servitude part of the argument is by far bigger part of the equation and anyone that works in tech/engineering knows it.

Agreed,

And to add, I’ll always have a soft spot for him but also believe that his presidency wouldn’t have been much better than Biden’s.

IMO he may be old but he’s perfectly fit for his current role as US Senator and grandfather of the left, such as it exists, within Washington. He’s perfectly capable of carrying out that role.

By contrast, Connelly is simply not the ideal person for his new role, being the attack dog who vigorously and robustly attacks GOP corruption. We need someone young, telegenic, a lil’ shy but always willing to fight, calm and collected most of the time but occasionally a bit fiery. Someone who could host an Instagram video from her kitchen perhaps and speak confidently to the public.


So can Elizabeth Warren transfer portal to the House or what?
 
Who said excluding foreign workers, my boy has been here on a green card since I don’t even know when and he’s in the same union as me.

He doesn’t undercut me or work harder and I don’t do the same to him.

Highly paid and low unemployment isn’t end all be all.

All organizing is is democracy in the work place, sounds like a contract would benefit everyone here.
Yeah just to clarify unions often only have issues with undocumented workers because they usually cannot join unions and employers use them en masse to avoid hiring union workers. In theory if there was a tech union any h1b worker would join it alongside the citizens on the job. Tech worker unions would just be hard to institute because tech workers are very well paid and many employers are small businesses in the field. However I could see a tech worker union arise specifically to de-incentivize the exploitive worker practices if there is an overwhelming shift to exclusively hire h1 workers because employers are looking to exploit those workers.

Honestly the biggest thing holding it back would the very different cultures between union organizers and tech workers and the modus operandi of both. I say that as someone who has experience from working with both types.
 
A shortage of competent/capable American workers to fill these jobs with no discussion of strengthening public schools, partnerships with tech companies and public universities, etc., seems to miss the mark entirely IMO.
There are pipelines teaching people the skills they need to get into tech. Bootcamps and colleges. A friend of mine who is about to turn 40 just got his first tech job for about 80k+ and it’s wfh. His college degree was in art.

It’s the most he ever made, but he took the incentive to go into a boot camp later in his career. More Americans can join the field it’s just the same thing we have seen over and over again regarding adult education. A lot of Americans become damn right belligerent if you tell them they got to learn a new skills to compete.
 
There are pipelines teaching people the skills they need to get into tech. Bootcamps and colleges. A friend of mine who is about to turn 40 just got his first tech job for about 80k+ and it’s wfh. His college degree was in art.

It’s the most he ever made, but he took the incentive to go into a boot camp later in his career. More Americans can join the field it’s just the same thing we have seen over and over again regarding adult education. A lot of Americans become damn right belligerent if you tell them they got to learn a new skills to compete.
Less focused on adults and more focused on the kids coming up. Pipeline issues have to be addressed at the younger levels too. But these bootcamps are usually for profit and not widely known about either. The average American has zero idea about how to get a tech job. We’re talking about a really small percentage of people.
 
as far as I can tell, that’s Bernie’s focus here.
i mean he started out with "this is a plot to make native born americans poorer"

i think once you say that; the most obvious conclusion is the program shouldn't exist at all, not that we should reform it to be nicer to immigrants.



and this whole indentured servitude I think is incredibly overwrought. Like do you think if you asked any of these immigrants, do they prefer an H1B or not working in america.
I think they will all pick the H1B...


Given the compliance costs and how hard it is to obtain one of these visas and the fact that the jobs are highly in demand.
why would companies be arbitrarily firing people or treating these people poorly just because they are on an H1B?


I don't think there is any wrong necessarily visas conditional on employment.
you want to make sure there are avenues to report abuse you don't need to get rid of the program or demagogue about the program
 
Less focused on adults and more focused on the kids coming up. Pipeline issues have to be addressed at the younger levels too. But these bootcamps are usually for profit and not widely known about either. The average American has zero idea about how to get a tech job. We’re talking about a really small percentage of people.
There are nonprofit programs like Girls Who Code and Black Girls Code aimed at women, but those are targeted to try and get women in the field. However, right now honestly getting kids into tech depends on their middle school and high school. The push to get kids into stem has been going on for at least a decade now, maybe longer.

My sister is in tech but she was in a computer club in her high school but works for a smaller company. However, she has both a bachelor and a master’s in her field a few certificates. To be honest my sister is far from typical she is a black woman in tech, and got into it before there was a big push for stem careers.
 

Excerpt:

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Inside the Capitol, reminders of the violence are increasingly hard to find.

Scars on the walls have been repaired. Windows and doors broken by the rioters have been replaced. And there is no plaque, display or remembrance of any kind.

Lawmakers rarely mention the attack, and many Republicans try to downplay it, echoing President-elect Donald Trump’s claims that the carnage of that day is overblown and that the rioters are victims.

In some ways, it’s like the insurrection of Jan. 6, 2021, that shook the foundations of American democracy, never happened.

“It’s been erased,” said Sen. Peter Welch, D-Vt. “Winners write history and Trump won. And his version is that it was a peaceful gathering. Obviously completely untrue.”

If Trump pardons rioters, as he has said he will do after taking office Jan. 20, that would be “putting an exclamation point on his version of what happened,” Welch said.

Some of the 1,250 defendants convicted of crimes after Jan. 6 called for the deaths of then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Mike Pence, who was Trump’s vice president, as the mob violently overran police and breached the building. Some carried weapons, zip ties, chemical irritants, Confederate flags as they ransacked the Capitol and hunted for lawmakers. They sought to stop the certification of Democrat Joe Biden’s win over Trump, echoing the Republican incumbent’s false claims that the election was stolen.

But the disruption was only temporary. Congress resumed work that evening and completed its constitutional role.

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski, one of seven Senate Republicans who voted to convict Trump on impeachment charges after Jan. 6, said “it was a very, very dark time.” Some lawmakers, she said, “do want to really put that behind us.”

There are different reasons for that, however.

Former Republican Sen. Mike Braun, a frequent Trump ally who left Congress this year and was elected Indiana’s governor, said many in the party think the Justice Department “was weaponized disproportionately against” some rioters. He said many lawmakers who were in the Capitol on Jan. 6 want as much distance as possible between then and now.

“I think all of us remember it,” Braun said. But, he added, “If you’re starting to put plaques up, it looks like it even further emphasizes the divide on the issue. And maybe the biggest remedy is just to keep moving forward.”
The plaque that never happened

Congress passed a law in March 2022 to require “an honorific plaque listing the names of all of the officers of the United States Capitol Police, the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia, and other Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and protective entities who responded to the violence that occurred at the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021.”

The Architect of the Capitol was ordered to obtain the plaque within a year and permanently place it on the Capitol’s western front, where the worst of the fighting took place.

But almost three years later, there is no plaque. It’s unclear why or who is responsible for it. A spokeswoman for the Architect of the Capitol referred questions to the House Sergeant at Arms, who did not respond to requests for information."
 
Yeah just to clarify unions often only have issues with undocumented workers because they usually cannot join unions and employers use them en masse to avoid hiring union workers. In theory if there was a tech union any h1b worker would join it alongside the citizens on the job. Tech worker unions would just be hard to institute because tech workers are very well paid and many employers are small businesses in the field. However I could see a tech worker union arise specifically to de-incentivize the exploitive worker practices if there is an overwhelming shift to exclusively hire h1 workers because employers are looking to exploit those workers.

Honestly the biggest thing holding it back would the very different cultures between union organizers and tech workers and the modus operandi of both. I say that as someone who has experience from working with both types.

I don’t know much about the industry but I know your pay and how small the company is doesn’t matter. Look at pilots, a senior delta pilot is making 300+ an hour, still in a union.

Same with size. I know 3 person companies who are organized because it allows you to run with the big dogs in construction and get big jobs.

It seems like the pay is fine for them but clearly there is animosity between workers that could be sorted out.

That’s their fight though, just what I’m seeing.
 
this whole indentured servitude I think is incredibly overwrought. Like do you think if you asked any of these immigrants, do they prefer an H1B or not working in america.
I think they will all pick the H1B...


1736103174836.png

This is a breakdown of how priority dates for green card applications based on H-1B visas work.

You may end up spending your entire working life under H-1B status while waiting for your residency, which means that your employment options/mobility will be severely limited during that entire time (many employers don't want to/have the legal resources to deal with USCIS, and having foreign workers makes it a lot more difficult for companies to bid on government contracts).

If you lose your job, you have 3 (or 6) months to find a new employer willing to sponsor you for a new H-1B visa or you get deported and your green card application gets automatically denied.

Realistically, it's only suitable for workers who don't plan on settling the US. For everyone else who plans to settle here (which is the large majority of work visa applicants), it's a situation similar to indentured servitude (salaries notwithstanding).
 
Nothing has discredited the status of the US abroad more than the aftermath of January 6th.

Former Republican Sen. Mike Braun, a frequent Trump ally who left Congress this year and was elected Indiana’s governor, said many in the party think the Justice Department “was weaponized disproportionately against” some rioters. He said many lawmakers who were in the Capitol on Jan. 6 want as much distance as possible between then and now.


“I think all of us remember it,” Braun said. But, he added, “If you’re starting to put plaques up, it looks like it even further emphasizes the divide on the issue. And maybe the biggest remedy is just to keep moving forward.”
The plaque that never happened

Congress passed a law in March 2022 to require “an honorific plaque listing the names of all of the officers of the United States Capitol Police, the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia, and other Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and protective entities who responded to the violence that occurred at the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021.”

The Architect of the Capitol was ordered to obtain the plaque within a year and permanently place it on the Capitol’s western front, where the worst of the fighting took place.

But almost three years later, there is no plaque. It’s unclear why or who is responsible for it. A spokeswoman for the Architect of the Capitol referred questions to the House Sergeant at Arms, who did not respond to requests for information."
In other words, if there are no commemorative signs of the event, we can lie to people about it until those with the living memory of the insurrection die off.

Just like the Lost Cause narrative.
 


1736103174836.png

This is a breakdown of how priority dates for green card applications based on H-1B visas work.

You may end up spending your entire working life under H-1B status while waiting for your residency, which means that your employment options/mobility will be severely limited during that entire time (many employers don't want to/have the legal resources to deal with USCIS, and having foreign workers makes it a lot more difficult for companies to bid on government contracts).

If you lose your job, you have 3 (or 6) months to find a new employer willing to sponsor you for a new H-1B visa or you get deported and your green card application gets automatically denied.

Realistically, it's only suitable for workers who don't plan on settling the US. For everyone else who plans to settle here (which is the large majority of work visa applicants), it's a situation similar to indentured servitude (salaries notwithstanding).

yah sure none of this says to me having a visa conditioned on employment is inherently bad.

non citizens having less rights than citizens is the nature of citizenship.


if you wanna say "we should have a faster process for making them citizens" I would agree.
but H1B visa program seems good. could be improved in various ways im sure. but ultimately as is it is still good.
 
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