***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

That GOP elites want us dead is axiomatic. The real killer is learning just how indifferent Biden and than Harris were about winning.

A lot of marginalized people on the left are changing their calculus towards harm reduction and electoral risks.

There is no more triangulation and tacking to the center. You can compromise, compromise, and water down a Democratic ticket and still lose.

That’s terrifying but the silver lining is that we won’t be intimidated and disciplined in Democractic primaries anymore, by the notion of “electability.”

Voters want to throw out incumbents when they invariably are dissatisfied with an economy that is designed to dissatisfy most people.

Trump will not solve anyone problems and Democratic candidates MUST understand that in the midterms, anyone on the Democratic ballot line will be electable.

Nominate based on who is most to the left economically, in the 2026 primaries. Vote your policy preferences and not what you imagine a “moderate” Republican would like.

be specific; what policy did they tack to the center on?
What policy did they not move to the left on during the biden administration?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

TBH I don't think people actually want "radical change" or to "tear it all down"

I think most of the anti-incumbent sentiment stems from filibuster, and the bicameral presidential system.

most people don't understand how government works, so when nothing gets done they assume it's because of rampant corruption. when in reality its the veto points.

the parties always have the excuse of the filibuster, or not having a trifecta for why they didn't do xyz thing.


so everyone is perpetually dissatisfied.

 

[nomadicsole21]

You’re actually part of the problem here—you’re not even making an effort to listen. You’re too quick to jump in, trying to prove you’re right and labeling others as “dumb,” “uninformed,” or “stubborn.” But here’s the truth: despite all that, you’re still here complaining, deflecting blame, and acting as though you know exactly where we went wrong. The reality is, you don’t. I’m not even going to engage with your arguments because they aren’t rooted in logical thinking or any genuine attempt at dialogue.

And yet, you’re calling others unreceptive? We just suffered a serious setback, lost the majority, and clearly need to re-evaluate our approach. You’re quick to accuse people of not listening, but it’s obvious that you’re the one who isn’t open to hearing anyone else’s perspective.

P.S. The only one copping out here is you, constantly attacking anyone who shares a different point of view. You keep saying, “OMG, this is so exhausting,” yet you keep writing walls of text pushing your own perspective. So, are you tired, or are you not?

You talk about this not being a pro-Democrat thread, claiming you’re just trying to “inform.” Yet, every time a Republican joins in, they’re immediately shut down. It’s honestly laughable.

Tbh, you're doing the same. He's replying with thoughtful replies and rebukes with what he disagrees with but you are also not receptive. He's not agreeing with you, but he's not talking down to you either. I agree with you that breaking people's habits on their media consumption can't happen overnight, but you can't deny that factual evidence and reporting is really out here. People are choosing to listen to content creators over people who have dedicated their entire lives to journalism.

However there is a MAJOR problem with how people consume media, and how algorithms impact what people see whether you agree or not. It's not because it's an alternative source, often times the sources are clickbait, slanted articles/podcasts that reinforces preexisting beliefs.

This is pretty dangerous and why things have been so polarized in our country. I hope you can realize that, if not look up the average reading level of an American adult. Most sources say the average American adult reading level is at a 7th-8th grade level, that's when you are 12-13 years old. This is why algorithms, alternate media sources are dangerous because people in general do not have the capacity to comprehend the information they take in to determine if they are being lied to especially if it reinforces their own opinions on things. Whether I'm left or right, just take the last paragraph and let that soak in.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

think about how many people say "why didn't joe biden stop roe v wade"

if there was no filibuster there are a bunch of things that would get hammered out pretty quickly in some sort of compromise.


but because of the filibuster it never happens.
the public doesn't understand so they assume it's corruption or something.

 

[gry60]

I literally gave him two conservative sources I'd get info from as a counterpoint, and the reply was "you're not listening."

No discussions can be had with that attitude, and without two-way reception, no common ground can be found.

They can keep blaming Democrats or they can read the platform...

 

[Lucky13s]

And if they don’t, the side that said it would happen if he’s elected loses credibility.

And as we all know, credibility is oh so important to that other side. The whole, “I’ll repeal and replace Obamacare in 2 week” … 7 years later all trump has is “concepts of a (healthcare) plan.”

Or how about YOUR own credibility. We have a man with a lifetime of racism culminating in “they’re eating the cats, they’re eating the dogs,” and you STILL can’t call him a racist. So credible!

 

[Belgium]

think about how many people say "why didn't joe biden stop roe v wade"

if there was no filibuster there are a bunch of things that would get hammered out pretty quickly in some sort of compromise.


but because of the filibuster it never happens.
the public doesn't understand so they assume it's corruption or something.

I wouldn't be surprised if more than 40% of Americans couldn't explain the process of a bill getting passed.
Pretty sure the same goes for my country, or basically any country tbh, but people here aren't quite as loud in proclaiming their stupidity.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Tbh, you're doing the same. He's replying with thoughtful replies and rebukes with what he disagrees with but you are also not receptive. He's not agreeing with you, but he's not talking down to you either. I agree with you that breaking people's habits on their media consumption can't happen overnight, but you can't deny that factual evidence and reporting is really out here. People are choosing to listen to content creators over people who have dedicated their entire lives to journalism.

However there is a MAJOR problem with how people consume media, and how algorithms impact what people see whether you agree or not. It's not because it's an alternative source, often times the sources are clickbait, slanted articles/podcasts that reinforces preexisting beliefs.

This is pretty dangerous and why things have been so polarized in our country. I hope you can realize that, if not look up the average reading level of an American adult. Most sources say the average American adult reading level is at a 7th-8th grade level, that's when you are 12-13 years old. This is why algorithms, alternate media sources are dangerous because people in general do not have the capacity to comprehend the information they take in to determine if they are being lied to especially if it reinforces their own opinions on things. Whether I'm left or right, just take the last paragraph and let that soak in.

Very well said, and something I’ve been hitting on for the past few weeks in here.

It’s also worth highlighting the fact the left side of the American political spectrum is not the only side with agency here. You might have critiques about Democrat messaging, and liberal media “talking down” on trump supporters and conservatives, but the burden is on them to change to widen the base while the other side gets to lean in to wide spread disinformation and misinformation while eroding trust in institutions and the democratic process with impunity? Fox News got hit with single largest defamation judgement in history for spreading lies about the 2020 election. Lies that still permeate in today’s political and social discourse.

All of these critiques and think pieces on everything the Dems have done wrong over the past 4 years would be great and valid if we lived in a political vacuum devoid of an opposition dedicated to making the truth as murky and hard to distinguish as possible.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I wouldn't be surprised if more than 40% of Americans couldn't explain the process of a bill getting passed.
Pretty sure the same goes for my country, or basically any country tbh, but people here aren't quite as loud in proclaiming their stupidity.

yup but even then in parliamentary systems because you can't vote for the executive separately.

your vote is much more connected to electoral outcomes.

so even if you don't know anything about the government you get some sense that a signal is being received based on electoral outcomes.


People are mad at Justin Trudeau largely because of things he did
not because of things he couldn't do because of legislative veto points.

imo this is much healthier way of doing things.

 

[keko jones]

No discussions can be had with that attitude, and without two-way reception, no common ground can be found.

You’re absolutely right—you’re not actually trying to listen. I haven’t been arguing against your point of view but rather pushing back on labeling people as “dumb” or “uneducated.” I gave the example that people use platforms like Fox News or the NY Post as their main sources, and you responded by saying they’re wrong for not verifying things and should seek the truth. When I pointed out that you can’t expect people to change their habits overnight, you dismissed it, saying it’s “BS” because of the advancements over the past 40 years. My goal wasn’t to disagree with you, but simply to offer a different perspective, which you immediately dismissed by saying, “You’re not listening.”

You keep talking about media, propaganda, and misinformation, but let’s look at the actual numbers. Trump didn’t improve from last time, yet Harris performed far worse. This wasn't due to the electoral vote; Trump also won the majority of the popular vote. What happened to the so-called “intelligent and educated” voters who supposedly got their information from the same sources? What changed for the pro-democracy Latino voters, for example? Did they suddenly become uneducated or start relying on “the wrong” media? These are questions worth answering. Maybe the message didn’t resonate, or they simply lost faith in the mission.

It’s frustrating, though, that people like me, or anyone else sharing a similar viewpoint, are automatically seen as “the problem.” It’s like clockwork.

 

[keko jones]

Tbh, you're doing the same. He's replying with thoughtful replies and rebukes with what he disagrees with but you are also not receptive. He's not agreeing with you, but he's not talking down to you either. I agree with you that breaking people's habits on their media consumption can't happen overnight, but you can't deny that factual evidence and reporting is really out here. People are choosing to listen to content creators over people who have dedicated their entire lives to journalism.

However there is a MAJOR problem with how people consume media, and how algorithms impact what people see whether you agree or not. It's not because it's an alternative source, often times the sources are clickbait, slanted articles/podcasts that reinforces preexisting beliefs.

This is pretty dangerous and why things have been so polarized in our country. I hope you can realize that, if not look up the average reading level of an American adult. Most sources say the average American adult reading level is at a 7th-8th grade level, that's when you are 12-13 years old. This is why algorithms, alternate media sources are dangerous because people in general do not have the capacity to comprehend the information they take in to determine if they are being lied to especially if it reinforces their own opinions on things. Whether I'm left or right, just take the last paragraph and let that soak in.

In the words of a very stubborn man: "You’re absolutely right… I’m tired of sharing a different point of view and people just not listening!"

 

[Belgium]

yup but even then in parliamentary systems because you can't vote for the executive separately.

your vote is much more connected to electoral outcomes.

so even if you don't know anything about the government you get some sense that a signal is being received based on electoral outcomes.


People are mad at Justin Trudeau largely because of things he did
not because of things he couldn't do because of legislative veto points.

imo this is much healthier way of doing things.

A parliamentary system is always better imo but it doesn't necessarily fix the issues at the voter level.
I'm not sure if there's any serious studies/statistics on it but Belgium for example is extremely self-hating. If we didn't have mandatory voting duty that comes with a pretty hefty fine if you refuse to vote, I think our turnout would be the lowest out of any country.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

A parliamentary system is always better imo but it doesn't necessarily fix the issues at the voter level.
I'm not sure if there's any serious studies/statistics on it but Belgium for example is extremely self-hating. If we didn't have mandatory voting duty that comes with a pretty hefty fine if you refuse to vote, I think our turnout would be the lowest out of any country.

let me ask you. I have this theory;

Basically in Nigeria we have a permanently dysfunctional corrupt government, despite having a successful smart upper class.

and the politics to the extent that people participate essentially boil down to ethnic / tribal lines.

people ask me why? my theory is; nigeria is fundamentally a fake country, arbitrarily conceived by aristocrats with no regard to culture and or tribal relationships.

any time you do this, there is no national identity or language that holds a people together. you get a permanently dysfunctional politics that always just boils down to ethnic/tribal lines,

and I say for evidence look at belgium. Belgium is a western countries, with the advantages of a western eu country, yet if you squint it has a similarly dysfunctional politics.

Belgium is largely a fake country conceived by aristocrats as a buffer between napoleonic France and the rest of europe.

as a result Belgium never has majority governments and things basically boil down to dutch-german-french / catholic-protestant divides.

not that different than the tribal ethnic lines in nigeria.


as a dude from Belgium how wrong is my hot take?

 

[aepps20]

Ro is and has always been a clown

 

[nomadicsole21]

be specific; what policy did they tack to the center on?
What policy did they not move to the left on during the biden administration?

Immigration, Gaza/Ukraine, Police reform, Student debt relief, arguably ACA and etc.

If the Biden administration went full far left, there would be open borders, the US distancing themselves from Israel and be the leading voice to stop the genocide, debt cancelation for all students, and universal healthcare. As we can see none of this happened.

Immigration reform was a huge talking point for both sides, probably the only thing both sides agreed on but the border bill was blocked for political gains/motives. Biden continued to back Israel and Ukraine leaning to traditional republican policies of military aid/anti terrorism. Student debt relief for all got shot down, but they agreed to more of a targeted approach and not cancelation for all. Biden built and expanded on the ACA instead of trying to push for universal healthcare which is generally a far left agenda.

Probably other good examples out there but you can see why liberals feel annoyed that they continually shift middle to achieve bipartanship but the right thinks they still need to conceded more ground to "reach them"

 

[rexanglorum]

be specific; what policy did they tack to the center on?
What policy did they not move to the left on during the biden administration?

Run something like Obama 2012.

Campaign against big business, foreground healthcare, and for the love of God don’t be seen in public with anyone from or associated with the Bush administration.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Ro is and has always been a clown

Bennie 2020 campaign responded to Hillary by absorbing all the progressive cultural politics.

this is why 2016 Bernie> 2020 Bernie.

 

[rexanglorum]

Sadly, Bernie has and always will be a clown when it comes to the courts

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Immigration,

so to clarify the claim. please correct me if i'm wrong.

so the left thinks the solution is to move to the left on immigration, Defund the Police, Student debt relief, and Gaza

and this would have been better?


In an election where people cited immigration as the #2 concern?
Where non college educated voters have fled the party?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Run something like Obama 2012.

Campaign against big business, foreground healthcare, and for the love of God don’t be seen in public with anyone from or associated with the Bush administration.

i don't get it, is that not a move to the center?
2012 obama is to the right of Hilary, Biden and Harris on basically everything.

 

[Lucky13s]

You get clowned so much in here and never respond I thought you actually left the site years ago.

I had been wondering if he ever evolved, and he came back just to answer my question.

 

[aepps20]

Sadly, Bernie has and always will be a clown when it comes to the courts

Bernard “Bernie” Prime Time Sanders has been a selfish clown for years.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

imo people like bernie because he seems authentic
he seems authentic because he's been talking about the same **** for 50 years. and he has a working class vibe,


it's not because they want socialism.


and unless you have a time machine or another 70+ year old politician with Bernie's track record, working class vibe and charisma.


emulating Bernie is hard to actually do.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The entire mistake of the disastrous 2019 primary is people thought Bernie's success meant you have to outbid everyone to the left on policy.


that was clearly wrong. and mistake everyone is still paying for