***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[keko jones]

Bernard “Bernie” Prime Time Sanders has been a selfish clown for years.

Bernie is doing exactly what I said the party should avoid—criticizing from within instead of showing a united front. How can we expect people to believe that the administration has done a lot for the middle class and the economy when Bernie is publicly saying the party has abandoned them? It just creates more doubt.

 

[aepps20]

Bernie is doing exactly what I said the party should avoid—criticizing from within instead of showing a united front. How can we expect people to believe that the administration has done a lot for the middle class and the economy when Bernie is publicly saying the party has abandoned them? It just creates more doubt.

He’s never been a team player. He will throw Dems under the bus every time to get off his takes every time.

 

[keko jones]

He’s never been a team player. He will throw Dems under the bus every time to get off his takes every time.

It’s like AOC’s videos about the division within the party, where she argued that removing Biden was a mistake and that everyone would not support Harris. It’s hard to take ignore, but no one talks about it.

The issue is within the party!

The more you analyze and revisit some of these issues, the more you have to give Biden credit. It honestly seems like he was going up against not just the Republicans, but his own party as well.

 

[gry60]

All of these critiques and think pieces on everything the Dems have done wrong over the past 4 years would be great and valid if we lived in a political vacuum devoid of an opposition dedicated to making the truth as murky and hard to distinguish as possible.

This!

Many a critique towards Democrats ignores the anti-democracy actions of the right. Those who do acknowledge that the right plays a hand in torpedoing Democratic policies somehow believe that there is a magic wand somewhere that Biden and Pelosi are choosing not to use to push the GOP aside.

Immigration reform was a huge talking point for both sides, probably the only thing both sides agreed on but the border bill was blocked for political gains/motives.

I'd say he did open up pathways to citizenship for people who would be normally ineligible for it (migrants who entered illegally being able to get legal status of married to a US citizen).

Biden continued to back Israel and Ukraine leaning to traditional republican policies of military aid/anti terrorism.

I agree that Biden failed on Israel. He painted himself too early in a corner he couldn't get out of. He got played by Bibi.
Ukraine is a lot more complex because he had to thread the needle between supporting Ukraine (they were willing to fight back for their land) without triggering a Russian response on US forces.

Student debt relief for all got shot down, but they agreed to more of a targeted approach and not cancelation for all. Biden built and expanded on the ACA instead of trying to push for universal healthcare which is generally a far left agenda.

This is where I criticize the Democratic voting base, especially those who are always likely to leave the voting bloc after getting a smaller win than they anticipated.

A president cannot take drastic action without a mandate. The mandate comes from the people; if the people doesn't show up, the president will take the most conservative decision that will get him a win without endangering party control of the legislature. Progressives are always willing to leave at the first setback, and that forces the Dem leadership to follow the conservative route by default. The Democratic voting base needs to internalize the mindset that every victory towards their ideal policy counts.

 

[rexanglorum]

i don't get it, is that not a move to the center?
2012 obama is to the right of Hilary, Biden and Harris on basically everything.

But Obama identified people’s dissatisfaction and made Romney the lightening rod for it.


He didn’t campaign with the “good” partners from Bain Capital. He had Vice President Biden equate deregulation with bringing back chattel slavery.

Joe Biden treated Paul Ryan as the bow tie wearing young Republican dip**** that he was, at the VP debate.

They showed video of Paul Ryan lookalike throwing grandma off a a cliff!

They also just played tape of Rush Limbaugh calling a women, concerned about her healthcare, a “****.” They didn’t give undecided voters homework. “read project 2025” no, TELL voters the juiciest parts of project 2025. No one reads anyone.

And above all else, they did not embrace the Bush administration or anyone associated with it. Moreover, Romney knew how toxic they were and tried to avoid associating with them as well.

So maybe, maybe Harris Walz should have been to the left of Mitt Romney on that question.


So to your point, narrative is more important than policy. And the Harris campaign had the worst narrative I’ve ever seen from a Democratic President Campaign.

 

[nomadicsole21]

so to clarify the claim. please correct me if i'm wrong.

so the left thinks the solution is to move to the left on immigration, Defund the Police, Student debt relief, and Gaza

and this would have been better?


In an election where people cited immigration as the #2 concern?
Where non college educated voters have fled the party?

Nah I just listed it out as general examples of what the far left would want to answer your question about how far did the Biden administration shifted middle. An overview of the spectrum because as liberal or as weird people think the Biden administration was, it was somewhat in the middle compared to what it would be if Biden was really out here proposing "liberal"far left policies like open borders or letting criminals in to terrorize our streets like the right has been spewing. It was never about the policies, the voters didn't care a single lick about policy.

 

[gry60]

I gave the example that people use platforms like Fox News or the NY Post as their main sources, and you responded by saying they’re wrong for not verifying things and should seek the truth.

Is that a problem?
I mean, we have Trump voters who are asserting that he won't take away the ACA, despite having tried multiple times and not having a concrete plan 9 years after entering politics.

When I pointed out that you can’t expect people to change their habits overnight, you dismissed it, saying it’s “BS” because of the advancements over the past 40 years.

You said it was unrealistic to expect people to change the way they get their news, and I said that in the last 40 years, we've collectively changed the way we get information, from exclusively print media to digital media and everything in between.

They didn’t give undecided voters homework. “read project 2025” no, TELL voters the juiciest parts of project 2025. No one reads anyone.

Like this?


Some screenshots even had page numbers to make it easy for people to dig further if they wanted to.

They still didn't believe.

 

[nomadicsole21]

Hope thats not the original source "Teach Christian religious beleifs"
I mean I barely proofread my writing here but cmon.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But Obama identified people’s dissatisfaction and made Romney the lightening rod for it.


He didn’t campaign with the “good” partners from Bain Capital. He had Vice President Biden equate deregulation with bringing back chattel slavery.

Joe Biden treated Paul Ryan as the bow tie wearing young Republican dip**** that he was, at the VP debate.

They showed video of Paul Ryan lookalike throwing grandma off a a cliff!

They also just played tape of Rush Limbaugh calling a women, concerned about her healthcare, a “****.” They didn’t give undecided voters homework. “read project 2025” no, TELL voters the juiciest parts of project 2025. No one reads anyone.

And above all else, they did not embrace the Bush administration or anyone associated with it. Moreover, Romney knew how toxic they were and tried to avoid associating with them as well.

So maybe, maybe Harris Walz should have been to the left of Mitt Romney on that question.


So to your point, narrative is more important than policy. And the Harris campaign had the worst narrative I’ve ever seen from a Democratic President Campaign.

That only works against a Mitt Romney.

Donald Trump

- moved to the center on abortion
- moved to the center on entitlements
- actually campaigned for the votes of black Americans
- campaigned for non college educated Latinos.


2012 Obama ran against a Mormon nerd/plutocrat. It's not gunna work on Trump.

 

[heelsandeers]

.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[gry60]

 

[biggie62]

Should cut back on his avocado toast and Starbucks.

 

[heelsandeers]

Here we go again—this argument is egregious and even laughable, and it’s exactly why people are willing to believe the Republicans. This claim is a blatant lie!

Where's the magical media bubble that appeals to all or most Dems? Fox has older conservatives in lock step going on 30 years now. The right wing alternative media space probably reaches an even wider audience than Fox does today. What are the left wing sources of media with those types of audience and reach?

Where are you getting these so-called "facts"? It seems like you're making assumptions and generalizations based on your own practices and biases.

I mean, today’s political environment doesn’t appear in a vacuum. We have decades of proven market research and know which type of media thrives the most. Rush and Fox became the dominant political media forces they were for a reason. Liberal equivalents never materialized to the same extent for a reason

This statement doesn’t align at all with the voter turnout, the shift from one side to the other, or the results. You need to start being honest.

I don't see what Dem media consumption has anything to with this. Maybe if Dem media would've flooded their airwaves with lies and magical solutions they've would've faired better

I wouldn't get too caught up in that shift being anything more than economic hardship. The writing was on the wall and we should've realized that sooner. Even so, it's a tiny percentage of voters. Rural whites and white men carried the home team per usual

Lastly, what many Trump supporters have been saying is that Democrats are always quick to claim, "Our side is highly educated; we go to the source, read this, and that," yet here we are. While I believe Democratic supporters may be more diligent in seeking out facts, the typical citizen, in general, doesn’t make that effort. However, the narrative—whether you accept it or not—has been a major issue for many. It’s this: "You’re dumb because you agree with a convicted felon who hasn’t accomplished anything and is supposedly going to turn this country into China, while we’re smart because we read articles, have degrees, and aren’t lazy."

Who cares what Trump supporters say. Rural America has hated educated big city libs for forever. That's what makes them Trump supporters. If the moral of your post is that Dems need to get through better to normal folks who aren't political junkies, don't have fancy degrees, or aren't MAGA conservatives, then yes I completely agree

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[gry60]

Should cut back on his avocado toast and Starbucks.

Need to lose the iPhone too.

 

[gry60]

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4979723-lloyd-austin-israel-gallant-call/

Gallant was fired Tuesday, with Netanyahu saying there was a “crisis of faith” between him and his former defense minister that had hindered public management. Netanyahu appointed his former foreign minister, Israel Katz, to the defense minister post.

Gallant claimed that he was fired for three reasons: his willingness to accept a cease-fire and hostage release deal in Gaza; his support for religious students serving in the military; and his calls for a state commission to investigate the failures of the Oct. 7, 2023, Hamas attacks on Israel, which killed some 1,200 and saw some 250 Israelis taken hostage.

Israel taps staunch supporter of illegal settlements as ambassador to US

Yechiel Leiter’s selection comes days after Trump election victory and presages expected US-Israel policy shift.

www.aljazeera.com

Leiter, a US-born resident of an Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank, has long been a proponent of illegal settlement expansion. His selection coincides with the Netanyahu government’s enthusiastic response to Trump’s return to the White House.

Bibi's making the moves we said he would make with Trump in control.

 

[rexanglorum]

Democrats just to to purge everyone who is trans, disabled, or anyone critical of the police.
THEN impose a great firewall around the country.

Without all that woke nonsense existing or being visible to anyone. THEN Dems can run a campaign with the Cheney, talk about “Joy” and tout a tax credit that they had in place for one year then took away.

 

[whoisthisguy]

I have concepts of thoughts & prayers

 

[staffsgtdignam]

He’s never been a team player. He will throw Dems under the bus every time to get off his takes every time.

Honestly, is Bernie even a Dem? I know he caucuses with Dems but he’s technically an Independent.

He has some good ideas but the dude is a nonstarter on a national level.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Democrats just to to purge everyone who is trans, disabled, or anyone critical of the police.
THEN impose a great firewall around the country.

Without all that woke nonsense existing or being visible to anyone. THEN Dems can run a campaign with the Cheney, talk about “Joy” and tout a tax credit that they had in place for one year then took away.

wut.

 

[aepps20]

Honestly, is Bernie even a Dem? I know he caucuses with Dems but he’s technically an Independent.

He has some good ideas but the dude is a nonstarter on a national level.

He’s not a democrat but he wants to use the party’s resources when he wants to make runs or get on powerful committees

 

[aepps20]

One thing I wonder about is whether many of the Biden voters in 20 were just on that Avengers/Thanos type timing where the pandemic had messed up things so badly that they decided to get out in vote to beat Trump with no plans or expectations to remain engaged in the political process? Without sensing a similar omega level threat this time around maybe they just stayed home.

 

[gry60]

"What have Democrats done for the working class?"
"Democrats only care about the college educated"

 

[staffsgtdignam]

One thing I wonder about is whether many of the Biden voters in 20 were just on that Avengers/Thanos type timing where the pandemic had messed up things so badly that they decided to get out in vote to beat Trump with no plans or expectations to remain engaged in the political process? Without sensing a similar omega level threat this time around maybe they just stayed home.

Well I also think everyone was stuck at home and consuming content at a MUCH greater rate so it was probably easier for Biden to invigorate voters who were overall not satisfied with Trump.

Sadly tons of people have the memory of goldfish and blame Biden for the inevitable inflationary issues even though bipartisan measures approving trillions in deficit spending occurred during COVID (for PPP, stimulus, etc. etc.), some of which was WHILE Trump was President.