***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Man oh man, liberals need to stop with this whole circular firing squad. Anti-racism, Anti-Patriarchy, environmental justice and economic justice are all constituent parts of the same social justice whole. The people who understand this, people like Kshama Sawant, Robert Reich and William Barber are all on the periphery.

Meanwhile we get treated to the spectacle of Nancy Pelosi, the personification of the Democratic party's out of touch green neoliberalism, battling it out with Tim Ryan, a man who is the personification of every negative Bernie bro stereotype. To make matters worse, a truly intersectional politico, Keith Ellison, is wasting all of his time and energy to become the DNC's chief fundraiser.

It is a mess and all of this false choice nonsense needs to stop.

if ya don't come back towards da middle ya gonna be lost for a LONG time...or until da GOP starts getting advice from da radicalized religious right...

Bill Clinton's legacy looks worst and worst as time goes by because of his centrist policies.

ya wanna complain or ya wanna win? its thats simple.

because ya not winning being über left.

thats just da bottomline.

I want a social democracy and social justice

Supporting the Democratic Party is a means to an end

And I will not support a party a platform that compromises justice minorities just to say I won.

Because while Clinton was better than most Republicans on social issues, many of his actions were horrible or people that look like myself.

 

[rico x hood]

I will play, Rico. How should black ppl fight racism?

1. Stop voting as a monolith. **** democrats they will never do anything. Not saying we should all vote republican but vote somewhere else in every election, midterms, recalls, presidential, shake up the map confuse the political class that already know where our vote will go.

2. Get heavy in the lobbying game. It costs money to get our issues to the forefront. But the NAACP, National Urban League, and other such groups aren't doing **** compared to other disenfranchised groups. LULAC and GLAAD both spend more on lobbying. Plus they also are big on getting people of their respective demographics in the govt relations field.

3. Become more secular. I'm convinced that the church is a huge detriment to our progress. Praying don't do **** and never will. God doesn't care and once we start to realize that we can take more risks. "Let go and let god" is just another way of saying "do nothing".

4. Pool resources like other demographics do. I'm Jamaican and for as long as I can remember my grandmother collected money from members of our family and when someone needed it would be there. I don't know if American blacks do this but I've never heard of any of my black friends do it. I think Asians and Jews do it to. Obviously that's small but it would start a foundation of unity that we are severely lacking in.

5. Lose the victim mentality. I've said this many times but many in our culture are victims of learned helplessness due to life actually beating us down or being told that life will beat is down. That severely depresses the will to succeed.

6. **** Africa and all that "we used to be kings and queens ****" this is America we kicked the monarchs out. All that was generations ago and does not pertain to us now. People need to stop looking to the past to make themselves feel better about the present. That's Uncle Rico syndrome.

That's pretty much what I got off the top of my head but I'm pretty that'll give you my head where my head is at.

 

[ninjahood]

Man oh man, liberals need to stop with this whole circular firing squad. Anti-racism, Anti-Patriarchy, environmental justice and economic justice are all constituent parts of the same social justice whole. The people who understand this, people like Kshama Sawant, Robert Reich and William Barber are all on the periphery.

Meanwhile we get treated to the spectacle of Nancy Pelosi, the personification of the Democratic party's out of touch green neoliberalism, battling it out with Tim Ryan, a man who is the personification of every negative Bernie bro stereotype. To make matters worse, a truly intersectional politico, Keith Ellison, is wasting all of his time and energy to become the DNC's chief fundraiser.

It is a mess and all of this false choice nonsense needs to stop.

if ya don't come back towards da middle ya gonna be lost for a LONG time...or until da GOP starts getting advice from da radicalized religious right...

Bill Clinton's legacy looks worst and worst as time goes by because of his centrist policies.

ya wanna complain or ya wanna win? its thats simple.

because ya not winning being über left.

thats just da bottomline.

I want a social democracy and social justice

Supporting the Democratic Party is a means to an end

And I will not support a party a platform that compromises justice minorities just to say I won.

welp, hope liberals enjoy being a large majority of a small regional party.

cuz if u wanna win, u gonna have to come to da middle.

 

[whywesteppin]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

 

[ninjahood]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

well ya not gonna win like that as seen in all those wasted California votes.

 

[whywesteppin]

i just said we don't want to win.

whether trump or Hillary or my **** win, the same elites will run this country. if winning means coming to the middle, then I'm ok not winning.

it's a Pyrrhic victory.

the country needs California and New York and Washington more than they need the center of the country. things will balance out.

 

[EddieDoyers]

Ninja and Rusty, your points are pretty good although they come from opposite spectrums
Social justice should be one of the priorities in creating a more fair atmosphere for employment and communities.
However, a good amount of Americans aren't interested in that and would rather see the economic benefit, which the majority of America in flyover states wanted to reattain the share of the profits that they used to have.
You can call it willful ignorance, but many people value money and materialism over everything, which is a bit sad, but it is what it is.

 

[MVP]

But if the economic benefits don't come which they usually don't under GOP leadership, then what?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I will play, Rico. How should black ppl fight racism?

1. Stop voting as a monolith. **** democrats they will never do anything. Not saying we should all vote republican but vote somewhere else in every election, midterms, recalls, presidential, shake up the map confuse the political class that already know where our vote will go.

2. Get heavy in the lobbying game. It costs money to get our issues to the forefront. But the NAACP, National Urban League, and other such groups aren't doing **** compared to other disenfranchised groups. LULAC and GLAAD both spend more on lobbying. Plus they also are big on getting people of their respective demographics in the govt relations field.

3. Become more secular. I'm convinced that the church is a huge detriment to our progress. Praying don't do **** and never will. God doesn't care and once we start to realize that we can take more risks. "Let go and let god" is just another way of saying "do nothing".

4. Pool resources like other demographics do. I'm Jamaican and for as long as I can remember my grandmother collected money from members of our family and when someone needed it would be there. I don't know if American blacks do this but I've never heard of any of my black friends do it. I think Asians and Jews do it to. Obviously that's small but it would start a foundation of unity that we are severely lacking in.

5. Lose the victim mentality. I've said this many times but many in our culture are victims of learned helplessness due to life actually beating us down or being told that life will beat is down. That severely depresses the will to succeed.

6. **** Africa and all that "we used to be kings and queens ****" this is America we kicked the monarchs out. All that was generations ago and does not pertain to us now. People need to stop looking to the past to make themselves feel better about the present. That's Uncle Rico syndrome.

That's pretty much what I got off the top of my head but I'm pretty that'll give you my head where my head is at.

Here is my problem with you, while I could debate the practicality or effectiveness of some of these points, I generally agree.

But you don't practice what you preach. You vote exclusively for one party, you have said over and over that you don't want to feel pressured to help the community and the major thing you look for in a candidate is tax cuts.

You ridiculed me for my liberal views saying they must be born out of my family needing handouts, and as a immigrant myself, you told me that if I can't express my love for America, I should leave.

You constantly cosign people like Ninja and Blco that spew ignorance about the black community, yet you thank objection to people like me the most. As I recall, you once told me your mission on NT was to be antagonizing towards me in case others read me post and get pursued into thinking like me.

And you do make excuses for white supremacy constantly. For example, black votes are being suppressed and you don't express your anger over it, and you don't even give a balanced answer of black people adapting and the voting rights act being restored, instead black people should just car pool.

You spew right wing talking points on Obama even though you're can't make cogent argument over why you hate him so much, and ignore the racism the man had to face.

Look how you were so dead set against Krugman's argument, even though you're ignorant on the subject he is discussing. Just because he is a liberal, forget he is one of the best economic minds living.

So yeah, I'm not buying this from you. This one lucid moment doesn't make up for the amount of right wing selfish steez you have been spitting for years.

 

[RustyShackleford]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

well ya not gonna win like that as seen in all those wasted California votes.

Under 100K votes in three states, we will be fine.

You're a bit over confident.

 

[ninjahood]

But if the economic benefits don't come which they usually don't under GOP leadership, then what?

then u can vote da bums out..they have no excuses now, they own all da levers of power.

 

[ninjahood]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

well ya not gonna win like that as seen in all those wasted California votes.

Under 100K votes in three states, we will be fine.

You're a bit over confident.

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

 

[EddieDoyers]

But if the economic benefits don't come which they usually don't under GOP leadership, then what?

You underestimate how narrow their economic interests are....
For example, ninja is mad at the cafe standards, which he fears that will ruin his chance of buying a hemi
So even at the big risk of having our environment become worse, it doesn't matter because "he doesn't see it"
Another one is business owners
Lower tax rates are always good for their bottom line.
However, they don't see that lower tax revenues can result in the risk of declining infrastructure or social programs used to curb poverty and other societal ills.
As long as they benefit, it doesn't matter about the rest.

 

[MVP]

then u can vote da bums out..they have no excuses now, they own all da levers of power.

I'm asking from the perspective of the white voting block that is new. Will those poor people continue to vote for them...history says they will. Which again leads me back to the point that economics don't matter as much as you think they do.

 

[RustyShackleford]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

well ya not gonna win like that as seen in all those wasted California votes.

Under 100K votes in three states, we will be fine.

You're a bit over confident.

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

The electoral map will always favor a liberal. Trump win didn't change that. Mexicans and blacks can make the rust bet irrelevant if they can trade them for sunbelt states. Black and Mexicans are not gonna flock to a white supremacist, especially if he keeps his campaign promise of stop-n-frisk and his immigration policy

All Trump can do for the rust belt is hopefully get a jobs bill passed at the right time. The coal and manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. Even if the manufacturing jobs did comeback, they will be to robots, and the rust belt will have to compete with the sun belt for them

Start praying that voter ID and gerrymandering make it too 2020

 

[ninjahood]

then u can vote da bums out..they have no excuses now, they own all da levers of power.

I'm asking from the perspective of the white voting block that is new. Will those poor people continue to vote for them...

you're forgetting da working class white vote was a core Democratic bloc, especially da union hardhat lunch pale type. they vote for economic interests

da "Reagan Democrats" label is self explanatory. pick him for that money

Trump tapped into da same demographic, so did Bill Once upon a time.

if Economic prosperity is Born out of Trump's policy prescriptions then not only will that demographic continue to support him, it will open da case for minorities who will also prosper.

 

[RustyShackleford]

What if Trump doesn't deliver, and Paul Ryan cuts these people social safety net, when what?

 

[essential1]

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

Reagan lost voters among Black & Hispanic demographics

In 1980

Black Voters
Carter -83
Reagan - 14

Hispanic
Carter - 56
Reagan - 38


1984
Black Voters
Mondale - 91
Reagan - 9

Hispanic
Mondale - 66
Reagan - 34


He also lost a percentage point of Democratic Voters from 1980 to 1984. But he did do well in 1980

 

[ninjahood]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

well ya not gonna win like that as seen in all those wasted California votes.

Under 100K votes in three states, we will be fine.

You're a bit over confident.

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

The electoral map will always favor a liberal. Trump win didn't change that.

until he did.

or do i have to show u da last time Michigan & Pennsylvania went red?

Trump winning economy wise will make blacks & hispanics cross over and vote for him too.

u strongly underestimate how when people are making money they don't care bout nothing else.

 

[ninjahood]

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

Reagan lost voters among Black & Hispanic demographics

In 1980

Black Voters
Carter -83
Reagan - 14

Hispanic
Carter - 56
Reagan - 38


1984
Black Voters
Mondale - 91
Reagan - 9

Hispanic
Mondale - 66
Reagan - 34


He also lost a percentage point of Democratic Voters from 1980 to 1984

Republicans don't have to win minority votes outright, they just have to dig into da monolithic, and minority turnout has always been bleh until Obama showed up, same thing with young voters.

 

[RustyShackleford]

we don't want to win. we want money and progress. and that's in the coasts plus a couple islands.

well ya not gonna win like that as seen in all those wasted California votes.

Under 100K votes in three states, we will be fine.

You're a bit over confident.

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

The electoral map will always favor a liberal. Trump win didn't change that.

until he did.

or do i have to show u da last time Michigan & Pennsylvania went red?

Trump winning economy wise will make blacks & hispanics cross over and vote for him too.

u strongly underestimate how when people are making money they don't care bout nothing else.

He won those states partly because turnout was down among likely Democratic voters.

And we are still talking under 100K votes.

The map still favors Dems.

 

[RustyShackleford]

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

Reagan lost voters among Black & Hispanic demographics

In 1980

Black Voters
Carter -83
Reagan - 14

Hispanic
Carter - 56
Reagan - 38


1984
Black Voters
Mondale - 91
Reagan - 9

Hispanic
Mondale - 66
Reagan - 34


He also lost a percentage point of Democratic Voters from 1980 to 1984

Republicans don't have to win minority votes outright, they just have to dig into da monolithic, and minority turnout has always been bleh until Obama showed up, same thing with young voters.

And the GOP responded by actively trying to suppress the minority vote.

Something you love to ignore

 

[essential1]

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

Reagan lost voters among Black & Hispanic demographics

In 1980

Black Voters
Carter -83
Reagan - 14

Hispanic
Carter - 56
Reagan - 38


1984
Black Voters
Mondale - 91
Reagan - 9

Hispanic
Mondale - 66
Reagan - 34


He also lost a percentage point of Democratic Voters from 1980 to 1984

Republicans don't have to win minority votes outright, they just have to dig into da monolithic, and minority turnout has always been bleh until Obama showed up, same thing with young voters.

Makes statement, proven wrong.. Doubles down by saying it differently

 

[MVP]

Makes statement, proven wrong.. Doubles down by saying it differently

Lies is the new truth B.

 

[RustyShackleford]

if Trump comes thru for da rust belt, da map won't change and it will gain coat tails ala old black and hispanics voting for Reagan in da 80's cuz of da economics crossover in popularity.

Reagan lost voters among Black & Hispanic demographics

In 1980

Black Voters
Carter -83
Reagan - 14

Hispanic
Carter - 56
Reagan - 38


1984
Black Voters
Mondale - 91
Reagan - 9

Hispanic
Mondale - 66
Reagan - 34


He also lost a percentage point of Democratic Voters from 1980 to 1984

Republicans don't have to win minority votes outright, they just have to dig into da monolithic, and minority turnout has always been bleh until Obama showed up, same thing with young voters.

Makes statement, proven wrong.. Doubles down by saying it differently

Apparently it is our problem for taking him literally