***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[reformeDWS]

the conservatives are claiming that the state is discriminating on the basis of religion because it treats churches differently than bike repair shops (one example that both G and K harp on), as if those businesses are remotely comparable with respect to Covid

as Sotomayor pointed out churches are actually treated BETTER than similar activities that involve talking and/or singing indoors. the majority also said that there is no evidence that the churches have actually contributed to Covid

everybody seems to agree that the state can proscribe gatherings of a certain size. so the Justices are objecting to attendance limits of 10 or 25. this is quintessentially the sort of fact judgment normally left to the state legislatures. these same Justices have repeatedly rejected arguments for this reason alone, most pointedly on voting rights

when legislatures decided to retain witness requirements on absentee ballots during a pandemic, despite evidence that it is discriminatory against older people and minorities, their response (in every case) was "it is not for us to decide where the legislatures should draw the line." but when the question is how may people are allowed in a synagogue at the same time, suddenly they are experts on public health competent to second-guess the elected branches

it's judicial activism. they just don't care because it benefits them.

 

[IATT]

 

[Based Jesus]

the conservatives are claiming that the state is discriminating on the basis of religion because it treats churches differently than bike repair shops (one example that both G and K harp on), as if those businesses are remotely comparable with respect to Covid

as Sotomayor pointed out churches are actually treated BETTER than similar activities that involve talking and/or singing indoors. the majority also said that there is no evidence that the churches have actually contributed to Covid

everybody seems to agree that the state can proscribe gatherings of a certain size. so the Justices are objecting to attendance limits of 10 or 25. this is quintessentially the sort of fact judgment normally left to the state legislatures. these same Justices have repeatedly rejected arguments for this reason alone, most pointedly on voting rights

when legislatures decided to retain witness requirements on absentee ballots during a pandemic, despite evidence that it is discriminatory against older people and minorities, their response (in every case) was "it is not for us to decide where the legislatures should draw the line." but when the question is how may people are allowed in a synagogue at the same time, suddenly they are experts on public health competent to second-guess the elected branches

Cuomo basically said that he doesn't give a damn what the supreme court ruled so we'll see how that goes

 

[Magic33]

but you won't be staying after January 20th

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[reformeDWS]

TL;DR - trumpers are a legit threat to democracy as a whole. my thanksgiving experience:

for personally reasons I'd rather not get into specifics, but do want to add that I recently had a conversation with some trumpers that I can only explain as jarring. of the many points I made, the general responses can be boiled down to "but that's different", "that's not a reputable source", claims of big tech censorship, unverified claims that ballots showed up out of nowhere, dominion election software, and "those RINOs might as well be democrats. they're all corrupt". there were also allusions to an upcoming civil war, your traditional "taxation is unconstitutional theft", and perhaps the most perplexing "the republican party is the party of the working class american". they also disagree that trump is dishonest.

one of the funnier/more disturbing parts of the discussion was their general distrust of the entire institution but only if the institution produced results they didn't agree with. that conversation went something like:

them: there are mountains of evidence of voter fraud. random ballots showing up, poll watchers excluded, certain areas have usual turnouts of 70% but now had 89% turnout, detroit/philly/chicago are corrupt, biden got more votes in this area than obama, pennsylvania received 700k more absentee ballots than it sent out. the courts, and supreme court if necessary, will ultimately overturn this unjust election because of all that evidence.

me: but with mountains of "evidence", the trump campaign will surely win in the courts right? I mean, if everything you say is true, there's no way they lose, right?

them: they should, but the courts have different burdens of proof. you're a lawyer, you know how it works. even if the trump campaign loses in the courts, it doesn't mean that there wasn't voter fraud. after all, many murderers end up walking free because the state can't meet the reasonable doubt burden but it doesn't mean that a murder didn't happen.

me: if you feel like this now, why did you summarily dismiss claims of foreign election interference in 2016 when trump won?

them: that's different. there was no evidence.

I say all that to say, there simply is no negotiating with these folks. these weren't just random uneducated folks. these were doctors and lawyers.

we can have disagreements on how best to boost the economy i.e. tax cuts for the wealthy and trickle down economics vs. increase taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth downstream and increase the masses spending power. we can have disagreements on the role of government and its purpose i.e. limited government regulation and intrusion and let people fend for themselves vs. moderate government regulation and providing societal safety nets. we can have disagreements on how best to utilize local and federal taxes. we can't have any of that if one side insists the entire institution is unfair and biased against them when they don't get what they want.

hope everyone had a happy thanksgiving. cheers to democracy. /rant.

 

[mplsdunk]

I don’t agree with everything da libs do by any means but nobody is a bigger threat to freedom than conservatives.

one big brain dead cult. No facts, just god and racism.

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

dude’s really pushing it til next year huh...

can’t wait

 

[IATT]

 

[iheartboost]

 

[mplsdunk]

Honestly wish I could just give gifts to kids and not receive anything. I just want to eat and chill.

 

[jking0821]

TL;DR - trumpers are a legit threat to democracy as a whole. my thanksgiving experience:

for personally reasons I'd rather not get into specifics, but do want to add that I recently had a conversation with some trumpers that I can only explain as jarring. of the many points I made, the general responses can be boiled down to "but that's different", "that's not a reputable source", claims of big tech censorship, unverified claims that ballots showed up out of nowhere, dominion election software, and "those RINOs might as well be democrats. they're all corrupt". there were also allusions to an upcoming civil war, your traditional "taxation is unconstitutional theft", and perhaps the most perplexing "the republican party is the party of the working class american". they also disagree that trump is dishonest.

one of the funnier/more disturbing parts of the discussion was their general distrust of the entire institution but only if the institution produced results they didn't agree with. that conversation went something like:

them: there are mountains of evidence of voter fraud. random ballots showing up, poll watchers excluded, certain areas have usual turnouts of 70% but now had 89% turnout, detroit/philly/chicago are corrupt, biden got more votes in this area than obama, pennsylvania received 700k more absentee ballots than it sent out. the courts, and supreme court if necessary, will ultimately overturn this unjust election because of all that evidence.

me: but with mountains of "evidence", the trump campaign will surely win in the courts right? I mean, if everything you say is true, there's no way they lose, right?

them: they should, but the courts have different burdens of proof. you're a lawyer, you know how it works. even if the trump campaign loses in the courts, it doesn't mean that there wasn't voter fraud. after all, many murderers end up walking free because the state can't meet the reasonable doubt burden but it doesn't mean that a murder didn't happen.

me: if you feel like this now, why did you summarily dismiss claims of foreign election interference in 2016 when trump won?

them: that's different. there was no evidence.

I say all that to say, there simply is no negotiating with these folks. these weren't just random uneducated folks. these were doctors and lawyers.

we can have disagreements on how best to boost the economy i.e. tax cuts for the wealthy and trickle down economics vs. increase taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth downstream and increase the masses spending power. we can have disagreements on the role of government and its purpose i.e. limited government regulation and intrusion and let people fend for themselves vs. moderate government regulation and providing societal safety nets. we can have disagreements on how best to utilize local and federal taxes. we can't have any of that if one side insists the entire institution is unfair and biased against them when they don't get what they want.

hope everyone had a happy thanksgiving. cheers to democracy. /rant.

I have two good friends that are trumpers. Our conversations are a lot less nuanced then this.

But its always funny that it boils down to this Dem's want a New World Order where they can control all of society...and trump will make sure that never happens.

As if trump has ever done anything for anyone other then himself. I don't understand how people see him...his actions...his childish personality and think that he will for some reason save the country from this incoming New World Order.

But the fake irrational fear that Biden and Pelosi and Shumer are like going to kick you door down and take your guns and microchip you and raise your taxes...its baffling. Your life will more than likely not change...at all...you will still be trying to cop your new Xbox, you still will be complaining about your commute to work and your coworkers while reminiscing on everything you did in high school and bragging about how much you just made off crypto, and how you are gonna start flipping houses. So just shut up and try to be nicer to people on a daily and be normal. We are all just trying to survive out here

 

[dmbrhs]

So, Trump saw it when it was at a thousand views and declared himself the winner again.

 

[whywesteppin]

More than a threat to democracy (but that too), Trump is an insult to intelligence.

 

[Mark Antony]

I can't believe man's sat at the small table on Thanksgiving. Who set him up?

Funny thing is the next opportunity the table will be OD big.

 

[reformeDWS]

I don’t agree with everything da libs do by any means but nobody is a bigger threat to freedom than conservatives.

one big brain dead cult. No facts, just god and racism.

they're sitting here complaining about dems paying random 3rd party candidates to siphon votes from republicans. "this is so corrupt. no one cheats on the scale these democrats do." i show em this link to republicans doing the same in florida and it became "I haven't seen this. these republicans aren't true republicans. they're like the crooked democrats." I ask who then are the "true republicans" and they throw their own under the bus. "these republicans who have been in government forever like romney are part of the deep state cabal and now they're trying to tell trump to accept the election because they're scared of him. he doesn't bend to the deep state and he's going to expose them for what they are". legit lunacy.

they complain about chicago and detroit staying blue and conclude "there must be voter fraud because there's no way these cities would stay blue when nothing changes to fix the problems there like homelessness and rampant crime". I show them this state rankings list and if there's voter fraud in louisiana, alabama, mississippi, and arkansas where the states stay red despite being consistently the worst states when it comes to health care, education, and economy. "that's different. I'd rather live in any of those states than live in chicago where there is so much corruption and crime. people aren't dying in those states for poor healthcare like they are dying in chicago from gun crimes." these are alleged catholics that I guess disregard the catholic church's teachings when it comes to protecting the poor, powerless, and disenfranchised when convenient but are also pro-life? never knew religion was an a la carte menu. these people would complain that jesus himself wasn't a productive member of society and it's not our responsibility to subsidize his life.

there is no middle ground with these people.

 

[frink85]

the conservatives are claiming that the state is discriminating on the basis of religion because it treats churches differently than bike repair shops (one example that both G and K harp on), as if those businesses are remotely comparable with respect to Covid

as Sotomayor pointed out churches are actually treated BETTER than similar activities that involve talking and/or singing indoors. the majority also said that there is no evidence that the churches have actually contributed to Covid

everybody seems to agree that the state can proscribe gatherings of a certain size. so the Justices are objecting to attendance limits of 10 or 25. this is quintessentially the sort of fact judgment normally left to the state legislatures. these same Justices have repeatedly rejected arguments for this reason alone, most pointedly on voting rights

when legislatures decided to retain witness requirements on absentee ballots during a pandemic, despite evidence that it is discriminatory against older people and minorities, their response (in every case) was "it is not for us to decide where the legislatures should draw the line." but when the question is how may people are allowed in a synagogue at the same time, suddenly they are experts on public health competent to second-guess the elected branches

if the churches want to hide behind the Supreme Court, then they can pay taxes.

 

[reformeDWS]

But its always funny that it boils down to this Dem's want a New World Order where they can control all of society...and trump will make sure that never happens.

As if trump has ever done anything for anyone other then himself. I don't understand how people see him...his actions...his childish personality and think that he will for some reason save the country from this incoming New World Order.

I was absolutely floored. Like... this is your guy? this is the spokesman for the working class? this is the hill you're doing to die on? based on...what?

they were heavy on "dems think they're smarter than everyone. they're communists who are going to take everything from you to give to other people". they didn't then appreciate when I later went to the other room, took all the kids' toys, and explained that sharing is for the weak liberals and because I'm bigger than them, I'm taking all the toys for myself and they can't do anything about it. kids cry to mommy and daddy and all of a sudden hoarded wealth (in toys) was unfair and should be redistributed fairly. me: ah, so we're against hoarding when we want what other people have, but we're good with hoarding when we have everything and don't want to give it away. "but that's different!!!!!"

 

[mplsdunk]

The whole “working class” for republicans is a joke.

Why is mn full of guys from red states in the summer doing construction? Oh that’s right all the republicans you vote for in Florida and Texas gutted your unions... so you come to mn to make a living because your “free state” pays like ****.

Im glad da libs are moving out to red states and voting for pro labor people. Companies in South Dakota call my union begging for help because they can’t find anyone worth a damn there. They’re finally starting to see the cheapest way isn’t the best way. Everything comes full circle.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[yasuke.]

Mans must've gotten a fresh batch of biscuits the other day.

SE Cupp is another one of the "ex"-GOP pundits that still can't (read, *won't*) put two and two together about how we arrived at this point. Conservatism is showing itself to be regressive and dangerous for Americans, yet they still think that it's still a viable strategy to deal with the problems that particular political perspective have made worse. I can already see the old guard Republicans trying to slink back into the picture as if Mitch McConnell and the GOP have somehow changed because Trump lost. They only opposed the GOP during the last four because they didn't want to be judged for associating with Trump, not because they disagreed with his ideas or the Trump led GOP's views on America. It's predictable, just like Van Jones' affinity for those buttery biscuits, word to RustyShackleford .

 

[Mark Antony]

There goes Van Scones again.

 

[gry60]

But its always funny that it boils down to this Dem's want a New World Order where they can control all of society...and trump will make sure that never happens

This particular talking point gets a lot of play outside US borders as well, which may explain why despite the clearly antidemocratic and borderline racist decisions undertaken by this administration, Trump tends to enjoy a uncharacteristic amount of support among populations that would be victimized by his policies if they were living here.

Maybe it's too late to rebuke anyone who tries to insert the Rockfeller/illuminati crap into a serious political discussion.

 

[gry60]

Why is mn full of guys from red states in the summer doing construction? Oh that’s right all the republicans you vote for in Florida and Texas gutted your unions... so you come to mn to make a living because your “free state” pays like ****.

Love to hear tradespeople ***** about blue states when the only reason they get time and half after 40 hours is because union shops nearby scare non-union employers into keeping their employees happy.