- Apr 30, 2010
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It's all ego at this point.Well said.
I see this so damn much. People be hustling backwards, just because they’re annoyed
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
- Jun 9, 2020
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Would much rather divert money from police to improve access to healthcare, education, and economic opportunity in low income communities rather than put more police officers in those communities.
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- Mar 30, 2007
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- Mar 30, 2007
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yobyellav
formerly cord15
- Sep 12, 2006
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I take this as he’s willing to answer the call and go commit acts of violence that have been put out there by alt right talking heads and former trump administration officials. And the Arizona Republican Party is recruiting like minded people. There is no other way to interpret this foolishness. Crazy times.....
Also, this deliberate misinterpretation of defund the police is comical. How does giving the police more money for being ridiculously bad at their job make sense? There are towns smaller than the university I went to with military equipment and we got supposedly educated people feigning ignorance on what that money can do to reduce crime and build communities.
R.I.P. Casey Goodson
- Mar 30, 2007
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God I hope he does the idiot thing and England goes bad. Most of my friends who work for multinationals have been either already scouting or are in the process of announcing a move of their European HQ awayfrom Great Britain and into another part of the EU. Would be ironic when all those high paying white collar jobs disappear from London by 60%.
- Mar 30, 2007
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Agent Orange going out sad #LockHimUp
- Jul 19, 2012
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clearly a training issue. I think if we increased the amount of soldiers patrolling and maybe hired some younger ones we’d see less of these problems
Nereyda Vuelve Por Dios
formerly DONRE
- Jul 22, 2012
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This is what I was responding to, as indicated by the quote:
Setting aside that we'd rather prevent crimes than merely solve them, you're making the assumption that more pay = more officer hours = less crime.
That's a gross oversimplification, to be kind. First off, more pay does not necessarily mean more police patrols or hours given what's being spent on overtime pay. Police unions in cities like Los Angeles, where overtime pay has repeatedly exceeded department budgets, have opposed hiring new officers in favor of increased overtime pay.
Your attitude of "spend more, get more" literally doesn't add up.
You were in such a rush to oppose "defund" in principle, because you're annoyed with Sharon from work and want to argue that it's possible to achieve police reform without cutting rapidly inflating police budgets, that you neglected to adequately consider the possibility of achieving your stated goals while still cutting costs.
You're also applying a TV cop show understanding of law enforcement to real life. Police officers are not all police detectives, out "solving crimes" like Law & Order.
"Defund the police" isn't the entire policy prescription. It's a slogan. You're railing against a strawman and refusing to acknowledge the very real and obvious issues with over-relying on police officers to respond to everything from traffic accidents to mental health crises.
Here's one recent and heartbreaking example of why that model is so dangerous:
It Wasn’t the First Time the NYPD Killed Someone in Crisis. For Kawaski Trawick, It Only Took 112 Seconds.
Trawick was alone in his apartment when an officer pushed open the door. He was holding a bread knife and a stick. “Why are you in my home?” he asked. He never got an answer.www.propublica.org
You recognize that "more spending = less crime" wasn't nuanced enough, but "more cops = less crime" is no better.
There are over 756,000 police officers in Russia, which amounts to around 515 per 100,000 people. There are only 130 cops per 100,000 people in Finland. Would you feel safer in Russia or Finland?
Now, if you want to counter that by saying that not all police officers are equally effective or well-trained, that only betrays the simplicity of your prior generalization.
And I wish you would approach this with respect for those who feel that they need to be protected from the police more than they need to be protected by them.
We need fundamental police reform in the United States.
We're currently spending $100 billion per year in a time of rising poverty to field an occupying army that treats black bodies raw materials for the prison industry - if not "the enemy" in conservatives' holy war on crime.
Your proxy battle with Sharon from work is not our concern here. Are there some White progressives in here who may remind you of her? Perhaps, but understand that you're also being condescending to people who are quite literally in the crosshairs - and all because you refuse to just have it out in #random with the coworkers who actually made you upset in the first place. It's obnoxious.
Just copy and paste it.
And, for the record, this is a "fascicle":
Says the guy who got annoyed by Slack banter, locked himself into the kneejerk retaliatory position of increased funding, then attempted to justify it by cherry picking the results of a low-effort JSTOR search.
Can we pause for a moment and appreciate the irony of scolding police reform advocates for alleged groupthink while shouting "fund the police" and backing it up with public opinion polls?
Holding a unique position isn't evidence of unique insight, and there's nothing about “fund the police” that's unorthodox, unique, or insightful. It's like saying “trust the authorities!” That'll show those latte-sipping anarchists who the real freethinkers are!
I get it: We're all frustrated by trend-hopping performative activists. You see @sharon over in #random playing White savior, thoughtlessly reciting slogans without any risk or sacrifice and you can't stand being on the same side of the debate as her.
Instead of trying to adopt a nuanced position, emphasizing police reform and attempting to reprioritize asset allocation to better serve the community than industries built on surveillance and incarceration (which is what most defund advocates want), you just had to go full opposite lock and scream, like 2020 Ice Cube, "FUND THE POLICE!"
Perhaps you're annoyed by the perceived hypocrisy in progressives' adoption what you consider an austerity approach to policing when money is seemingly no object for public healthcare and education.
It's a matter of priorities. If we can afford to pay for unlimited war, we can, instead, pay for healthcare programs that would do far more to protect American lives.
Our budgets are a reflection of our priorities, but it’s not just about what we spend. How we spend it matters, too.
If we treated healthcare like we treat law enforcement, we'd spend next to nothing on disease prevention, but have an army of high school-educated EMTs with iron cross tattoos making six figures per year hauling people to the hospital in surplus APCs on 2 hours sleep so they can retire at 40. Oh, and if they have probable cause to suspect that you might be suffering from anaphylactic shock, they can break down your door, shoot your dog, and confiscate your refrigerator. Feeling safer yet?
If you want to make the case that "demilitarize the police" is a more effective slogan, have at it, but you've done nothing to prove the case that more police funding actually results in a higher qualify of life for residents - especially for those who are disproportionately targeted by police.
meth had time today. Very well said.
hes not too bright on this so it will be hard for him to see the plot holes in his narrative
He cant get the simple concept of how stupid it sounds to want more patrolmen yet not add to the budget.
I will keep it short but im an accountant for a non profit in nyc. For the services my org provides, we undertake very big budgets/responsibility. Mainly shelters, mental health housing, and Veterans services, among others.
the time and problems we face getting reimbursed from the city and state is saddening. We oftentimes wait 3-4 months for a measly 200k reimbursement. Right now we are owed over 7 mil from the city. while The nypd budget balloons every yr or stays at an insane amount.
Adversely, our budgets will only continue to reduce.
osh kosh bosh
of you think what i stated above is justifiable then bro i hope you find a heart somewhere in canada. and if you think their jobs wont be made easier by taking care of the disenfranchised first, well you are a lost cause.
- Jan 12, 2013
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I will keep it short but im an accountant for a non profit in nyc. For the services my org provides, we undertake very big budgets/responsibility. Mainly shelters, mental health housing, and Veterans services, among others.
the time and problems we face getting reimbursed from the city and state is saddening. We oftentimes wait 3-4 months for a measly 200k reimbursement. Right now we are owed over 7 mil from the city. while The nypd budget balloons every yr or stays at an insane amount.
Adversely, our budgets will only continue to reduce.
and if you think their jobs wont be made easier by taking care of the disenfranchised first, well you are a lost cause.
a lost cause.
[/QUOTE]
it's really easy actually I think you should do both.
I think you should spend money on police reform and you should spend money on social services.
Maybe that makes me a crazy big goverment liberal but hey different strokes.
???
....
This my entire point,
police reform costs money. I expect that adding more patrolman would add to the budget, that's kinda the whole reason I...ya know oppose defunding the police.
no need for insults, at least read my argument first.
- Mar 30, 2007
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wut? clearly a false equivalenceclearly a training issue. I think if we increased the amount of soldiers patrolling and maybe hired some younger ones we’d see less of these problems
news flash policing is quite a bit different than the miltary, obviously I would not have the same prescription for the military.
again these rebuttals rely on distorting my position, or obvious logical fallacies.
do better.
- Apr 30, 2010
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Moar funding will solve this, easily.clearly a training issue. I think if we increased the amount of soldiers patrolling and maybe hired some younger ones we’d see less of these problems
- Dec 27, 2014
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Not by much. There's a reason why much of America's police force is comprised of vets.
- Aug 22, 2012
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Reforming the police does not cost more money, departments broadly speaking are already over compensated especially considering their skills and educational attainment. What is needed is reallocation of existing funds to incentivize better behavior. Not necessarily defund nationwide but a reassessment of where existing funds are going.
You can't buy military grade weaponry and city tanks and then claim you need MORE money for reform.....
You can't buy military grade weaponry and city tanks and then claim you need MORE money for reform.....
- Aug 2, 2006
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okay let me know the next time a police department carries out a drone strike or carpet bombs a city
and then ill agree that it's "not by much"
- Jul 19, 2012
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my message was directed at people who say defund the military sir, obviously training them not to murder people should be top priority
we can erase centuries of ingrained oppression, destruction, and systemic and murderous expansion with a few months of training and some new hires
maybe give them some more money for this stuff, idk. the multi billion dollar budget seems like enough but eh
#fundthemilitaryindustrialcomplex doesn’t roll off the tongue as well
