- Dec 15, 2017
- 17,811
- 43,327
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,509
I will just never understand why America should ever care about what is going on in the middle east.
beyond just like hamartian aid.
you got all these middle east experts on tv, people learning farsi and arabic so they can be booked on cable news shows
to tell you why the US must intervene in X middle east country.
why??? who cares????
Like Nigeria has oil, Nigeria has Islamic terrorists.
but I don't see any Nigeria experts on CNN???
I don't see any smart pants elite college people learning igbo and moving Lagos to burnish their resumes
so they can get a sweet think tank job and then Nat sec job with the biden administration.
- Mar 27, 2004
- 18,386
- 34,061
I just came in here to post this
I remember the whole Diaper Don stuff and what Noel Casler said.
wow, Trump just **** himself in front of all those kids.
- Dec 13, 2018
- 10,957
- 19,975
I just came in here to post this
I remember the whole Diaper Don stuff and what Noel Casler said.
wow, Trump just **** himself in front of all those kids.
Couldn't hol' it...little boy back there got a whiff!
- Mar 27, 2004
- 18,386
- 34,061
Can you smell what the Donald is cooking!!!
- Dec 13, 2018
- 10,957
- 19,975
- Mar 30, 2007
- 151,258
- 202,695
- Nov 29, 2012
- 7,636
- 13,506
This was spot on, especially if this was made 2 years ago lmao!
Edit - LMAO
- Jul 20, 2009
- 64,968
- 196,210
Last edited:
- Mar 30, 2007
- 151,258
- 202,695
Nike Jordan
Supporter
- Jun 27, 2002
- 33,983
- 81,362
- Oct 14, 2008
- 13,927
- 13,367
Armed Mexicans Were Smuggled In to Guard Border Wall, Whistle-Blowers Say (Published 2020)
In a complaint unsealed on Friday, whistle-blowers working on President Trump’s wall said that contractors were illegally bringing in Mexican guards to protect construction sites.
- Dec 8, 1999
- 7,406
- 29,361
This is what I was responding to, as indicated by the quote:
Setting aside that we'd rather prevent crimes than merely solve them, you're making the assumption that more pay = more officer hours = less crime.
That's a gross oversimplification, to be kind. First off, more pay does not necessarily mean more police patrols or hours given what's being spent on overtime pay. Police unions in cities like Los Angeles, where overtime pay has repeatedly exceeded department budgets, have opposed hiring new officers in favor of increased overtime pay.
Your attitude of "spend more, get more" literally doesn't add up.
You were in such a rush to oppose "defund" in principle, because you're annoyed with Sharon from work and want to argue that it's possible to achieve police reform without cutting rapidly inflating police budgets, that you neglected to adequately consider the possibility of achieving your stated goals while still cutting costs.
You're also applying a TV cop show understanding of law enforcement to real life. Police officers are not all police detectives, out "solving crimes" like Law & Order.
"Defund the police" isn't the entire policy prescription. It's a slogan. You're railing against a strawman and refusing to acknowledge the very real and obvious issues with over-relying on police officers to respond to everything from traffic accidents to mental health crises.
Here's one recent and heartbreaking example of why that model is so dangerous:
It Wasn’t the First Time the NYPD Killed Someone in Crisis. For Kawaski Trawick, It Only Took 112 Seconds.
Trawick was alone in his apartment when an officer pushed open the door. He was holding a bread knife and a stick. “Why are you in my home?” he asked. He never got an answer.
www.propublica.org
You recognize that "more spending = less crime" wasn't nuanced enough, but "more cops = less crime" is no better.
There are over 756,000 police officers in Russia, which amounts to around 515 per 100,000 people. There are only 130 cops per 100,000 people in Finland. Would you feel safer in Russia or Finland?
Now, if you want to counter that by saying that not all police officers are equally effective or well-trained, that only betrays the simplicity of your prior generalization.
And I wish you would approach this with respect for those who feel that they need to be protected from the police more than they need to be protected by them.
We need fundamental police reform in the United States.
We're currently spending $100 billion per year in a time of rising poverty to field an occupying army that treats black bodies raw materials for the prison industry - if not "the enemy" in conservatives' holy war on crime.
Your proxy battle with Sharon from work is not our concern here. Are there some White progressives in here who may remind you of her? Perhaps, but understand that you're also being condescending to people who are quite literally in the crosshairs - and all because you refuse to just have it out in #random with the coworkers who actually made you upset in the first place. It's obnoxious.
Just copy and paste it.
And, for the record, this is a "fascicle":
Says the guy who got annoyed by Slack banter, locked himself into the kneejerk retaliatory position of increased funding, then attempted to justify it by cherry picking the results of a low-effort JSTOR search.
Can we pause for a moment and appreciate the irony of scolding police reform advocates for alleged groupthink while shouting "fund the police" and backing it up with public opinion polls?
Holding a unique position isn't evidence of unique insight, and there's nothing about “fund the police” that's unorthodox, unique, or insightful. It's like saying “trust the authorities!” That'll show those latte-sipping anarchists who the real freethinkers are!
I get it: We're all frustrated by trend-hopping performative activists. You see
sharon
over in #random playing White savior, thoughtlessly reciting slogans without any risk or sacrifice and you can't stand being on the same side of the debate as her.Instead of trying to adopt a nuanced position, emphasizing police reform and attempting to reprioritize asset allocation to better serve the community than industries built on surveillance and incarceration (which is what most defund advocates want), you just had to go full opposite lock and scream, like 2020 Ice Cube, "FUND THE POLICE!"
Perhaps you're annoyed by the perceived hypocrisy in progressives' adoption what you consider an austerity approach to policing when money is seemingly no object for public healthcare and education.
It's a matter of priorities. If we can afford to pay for unlimited war, we can, instead, pay for healthcare programs that would do far more to protect American lives.
Our budgets are a reflection of our priorities, but it’s not just about what we spend. How we spend it matters, too.
If we treated healthcare like we treat law enforcement, we'd spend next to nothing on disease prevention, but have an army of high school-educated EMTs with iron cross tattoos making six figures per year hauling people to the hospital in surplus APCs on 2 hours sleep so they can retire at 40. Oh, and if they have probable cause to suspect that you might be suffering from anaphylactic shock, they can break down your door, shoot your dog, and confiscate your refrigerator. Feeling safer yet?
If you want to make the case that "demilitarize the police" is a more effective slogan, have at it, but you've done nothing to prove the case that more police funding actually results in a higher qualify of life for residents - especially for those who are disproportionately targeted by police.
- Oct 28, 2013
- 42,753
- 178,599
- Oct 28, 2013
- 42,753
- 178,599
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,509
Im not winning im making a point.
C'mon man, this is some Delk level whining, good grief
Man people have accepted defund the police with astonishingly little scrutiny and have decided to focus their ire on me.
fine if you want to, i have no problem rebutting shoddy claims.
- Jan 5, 2011
- 67,855
- 79,021
Trump anti-inauguration finna be litty titty. The Pabst, white claws and Coors gonna be on spill. Gonna be blasting hella pirated movie montage songs. Every man woman and child with a slice of papa johns. The average bum magas gonna be out there dancing and screamin smellin like parmesan cheese. The fashionable hipster maga's in their ripped wrangler jeans, artsy Trump shirts they got from Teespring, hunting boots and construction cargo jackets.
the Dwalks gonna be out acting like undercover cops
wild times.
the Dwalks gonna be out acting like undercover cops
wild times.
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,509
???
You tear down strawmen with astonishing efficiency.
I have been pretty specific about what I have been advocating for.
more officer patrols,
more time resources spent on solving crime
incentives to get older cops to rtetire.
recruiting programs to hire more diverse cops
more robust training.
Where in those list of things did I say increase officer pay?
That's what im advocating for tho, im advocating for spending money on specific things. I would not be in favour of increased overtime pay.
my larger point is that reform costs money. Things that improve policing cost money.
And again, it is not just an assumption, it's based on criminology research that supports my conclusions.
and the fact that the union opposes, is a really absurd retort, what is that evidence of? would they be more likely to endorse defund the police?
??????
The study on officer patrols shows that the presence of officer patrols actually prevents crime.
Im in a rush to oppose defund the police because it's bad policy that doesn't make any sense. regardless if john q NTer says it or sharon.
I have considered it and I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible to make significantly cut costs, because half the thigs people want,
like "firing old cops, and hiring new ones" cost money and cutting the size of the force or decreasing hours very likley increase crime rates.
?????????
obviously im not, you need only read what i've arguing.
that's why I literally said we should shift more resources to detectives, and hire more. I also suggested trying to recruit university graduates to detective work.
why would I suggest these thing if I though all police officers were detectives?
Im not, you are the one currently preoccupied with strawmen.
I did not ignore that, I have said multiple times I agree with that specific idea.
my point I don't see why you would shift those police to more useful crime prevention and solving functions.
why you need to start non armed metal health services unit and then defund the police? why is one necessary for the other?
again read what I write or don't
"more spending = less crime"
yeah that's not my point tho
ive made my point pretty clearly.
When departments spend more time and resources on detective work the research shows they solve more crimes.
when officers spend more time patrolling, research shows crime goes down and less arrests are made.
so therefore, more money should be spent on detective work.
and there should be more officer patrols.
both of which costs money.
along with other policing reforms. THEY ALL COST MONEY.
It's a bizzare I thought only fiscal consertives thought "we spend less on government and it gets better" made sense.
it's a lot more nuanced then
1. Spend less
2. ????
3. better police.
I agree. you need explain to me how it cost money and it won't harm the crime prevention and solving aspect of policing.
Pre-corona America was not in a time of rising poverty. It was a hot job market with real wage growth at the bottom of income distribution. post vaccine I imagine there's gunna be a pretty robust recovery.
we are were however in a time of rising violence in cities.
on a side note I find this Coates "black bodies" language that's permeated to be totally absurd, it was a fine literary device in a book you can just say black people it's cool.
please
my low effort JSTOR search is at least something,
your one off pro publica anecdotes, and absurd fascicle comparisons of social democracy FINALAND and freaking RUSSIA cleptocracy.
are poor excuses for evidence and amount to less than nothing.
I get it: We're all frustrated by trend-hopping performative activists. You see
Instead of trying to adopt a nuanced position, emphasizing police reform and attempting to reprioritize asset allocation to better serve the community than industries built on surveillance and incarceration (which is what most defund advocates want), you just had to go full opposite lock and scream, like 2020 Ice Cube, "FUND THE POLICE!"
the mind reading grows tiresome.
Im about equally annoyed by Sharron and your response. they are equally uncompelling and devoid of evidence.
sure i can agree with this.
BOOOM another straw man goes down.
irrespective of the slogan the idea is bad.
obviously i disagree. and i've done a lot more to forward arguments supported by evidence than anyone whose in favour of "defund the police."
- Jul 18, 2012
- 12,997
- 5,248
Defund the police.
- Aug 31, 2012
- 12,487
- 35,120
- Aug 11, 2012
- 55,544
- 147,205
I get it: We're all frustrated by trend-hopping performative activists. You see
Instead of trying to adopt a nuanced position, emphasizing police reform and attempting to reprioritize asset allocation to better serve the community than industries built on surveillance and incarceration (which is what most defund advocates want), you just had to go full opposite lock and scream, like 2020 Ice Cube, "FUND THE POLICE!"
Perhaps you're annoyed by the perceived hypocrisy in progressives' adoption what you consider an austerity approach to policing when money is seemingly no object for public healthcare and education.
It's a matter of priorities. If we can afford to pay for unlimited war, we can, instead, pay for healthcare programs that would do far more to protect American lives.
Well said.
I see this so damn much. People be hustling backwards, just because they’re annoyed
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,509
I love it. when all else fails fall back on the vague slogan.
the perfect encapsulation of this argument.
Again the arguments have been laughably feeble.
and it says something that all the retorts involve wrestling with strawman or just outright distorting my position.
if you want to Defund the Police as some sort of cosmic justice then I won't stop you.
but just know,
*whispers*It doesn't make any sense.*whispers*
- Jul 18, 2012
- 12,997
- 5,248
Abolish the 2 party system and the current "policing" systems. Completely
- Aug 4, 2005
- 35,033
- 16,945
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,509
- The US and EU both spend about 1.2% of GDP on police and prisons, but while the EU spends about 5 to 1 in favor of police, the US spends just 1.5 to 1.
- As a share of GDP, the EU spends 33% more than the US on police and 60% less on prisons.
US spends less on police in compared to the EU.
Europe manages to spend more on police and have a robust welfare state.
now if you wanna "defund prisons" that I can get behind.
