***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Maybe leftist should pace themselves for the Biden administration

If they are gonna be overly reactionary, at least wait for him to be sworn in.

And good grief, playing "hardball" is not how a progressive agenda gets pushed through. Please let us stop insulting people's intelligence

 

[Wargames]

The damage he has done to this country...from the 70s to now is truly unimaginable.

Bill Barr is one of the worst people in American history. I hope he’s remembered that way. He was brought do for exactly what was done. Corrupt, compromised, crook.

on the low I feel like he is being let go so Trump can pardon him

 

[rexanglorum]

Not that I disagree with this, but you're gonna have to hold your fire until January 20th at 12:01 pm.

It’ll will be an amazing feeling seeing Trump booed off the stage but I have a feeling that some folks here will defend Biden every second he is president.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s hard to tell, he’s already making concession to the right as if he were a sitting Democratic President.

Here, this should clear things up....

LINK

 

[Wargames]

Maybe leftist should pace themselves for the Biden administration

If they are gonna be overly reactionary, at least wait for him to be sworn in.

And good grief, playing "hardball" is not how a progressive agenda gets pushed through. Please let us stop insulting people's intelligence

has playing hardball ever worked for the Dems? I feel like domestically Obama and LBJ did a lot. Biden was around for both. Did he learn anything from that?

 

[junglejim]

It’ll will be an amazing feeling seeing Trump booed off the stage but I have a feeling that some folks here will defend Biden every second he is president.

I don’t think anyone in here really rides for Biden like that.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’ll will be an amazing feeling seeing Trump booed off the stage but I have a feeling that some folks here will defend Biden every second he is president.

Don't be a coward and same names if that is how you feel it will play out. Because no one in here has been a Biden fan, he was no one's first choice for President.

 

[IATT]

 

[rexanglorum]

Maybe leftist should pace themselves for the Biden administration

If they are gonna be overly reactionary, at least wait for him to be sworn in.

And good grief, playing "hardball" is not how a progressive agenda gets pushed through. Please let us stop insulting people's intelligence

How can you not see executive orders as part of, at least a negotiating strategy.

When you have to negotiate with McConnell or Manchin, you have to know they are taking orders from business interests. If you use EOs that cut into business interests’ margins, you can trade relief from those EOs for progressive legislation. Now those EOs could be struck down in court but in the interim it causes damage to big business and they control what McConnell and Manchin do.

Taking EOs off the table hands a win to the right.

 

[dmbrhs]

To be fair, Trump doesn't have any money. He needs it to pay off his debts.

 

[rexanglorum]

I don’t think anyone in here really rides for Biden like that.

Don't be a coward and same names if that is how you feel it will play out. Because no one in here has been a Biden fan, he was no one's first choice for President.

I don’t know how you’ll act when he’s seated but based on how you’re framing things now, I imagine you will steadily define down success in a Biden administration and as the blockade drags on month after month, you will do what the MAGA people did and define success as triggering the online left.

 

[dacomeup]

I don’t mean to startle you, Joe. You seem like a nice guy but your progressive platform won’t go anywhere if you don’t play hardball.

What hardball approach do you suggest? Genuinely curious here.

 

[Wargames]

To be fair, Trump doesn't have any money. He needs it to pay off his debts.

He does owe a Billion dollars and he can’t use the government to get himself out of that debt.

 

[gry60]

And good grief, playing "hardball" is not how a progressive agenda gets pushed through

By playing hardball, what I mean is that they shouldn't let bygones be bygones. I sense that Biden will do that, and I don't want him to. We - this country - can't really afford to let the GOP shenanigans go unpunished because they will learn:
- that disregarding the law works
- how to pick a better authoritarian who will finalize the minority rule project they have been implementing.

The other option is sitting back and watching the GOP implosion grow to the point where the party becomes toxic for any aspiring politician, and I don't think it's wise to be this passive. Past history tells us that if there's something we can count on, it's the GOP banding together when it counts.

 

[gry60]

 

[RustyShackleford]

How can you not see executive orders as part of, at least a negotiating strategy.

When you have to negotiate with McConnell or Manchin, you have to know they are taking orders from business interests. If you use EOs that cut into business interests’ margins, you can trade relief from those EOs for progressive legislation. Now those EOs could be struck down in court but in the interim it causes damage to big business and they control what McConnell and Manchin do.

Taking EOs off the table hands a win to the right.

Biden didn't take EO off the table, he said he won't use EO to try to jam through things he knows he doesn't have the power to do. Essentially don't expect sweeping fixes through EO like you get through legislation.

Biden is telling the cold hard truth, there are some things he can do somethings through EO, not everything.

Mitch doesn't need to compromise with Biden if he oversteps with EO, because the judiciary he packed will strike them down. Look at what they did to Obama when he tried to do the same thing like expand the overtime rule. Hell if he gets too crazy Obama and Clinton's judges might rule against him too.

Let me get this straight. So your complaint is that Biden said he won't troll the most ruthless politician in recent history by compromising to pass progressive legislation by signing an EO, and keep appealing it until the Supreme Court strikes it down. In some cases, if Biden loses the first trial, he could be blocked from institutions the policy altogether.

Dude, academics to Obama have talked about how ruthless and intractable Mitch McConnell is, so lets us not act like going wild with EO is some full proof plan Biden is ignoring

 

[gry60]

 

[rexanglorum]

What hardball approach do you suggest? Genuinely curious here.

Some combination of:

- Executive orders for labor and environmental regulations that go beyond what labor and environmental activist want.

- using the awesome power of the federal criminal-legal apparatus to arrest and try GOP donors and/or their adult children. Things like lying on mortgage applications and taking drugs, the stuff that wealthy people do that’s illegal but rarely enforced.

- Ignoring certain Supreme Court orders.

- Moving money within the federal government so taking money for defense and using it as part of a civilian jobs program.

Basically making life difficult for the GOP donor base and providing relief in exchange for legislative concessions.

I know it isn’t ideal but the GOP Senate and “moderate” Senate Dems are otherwise going to hamstring Biden’s administration and set up an even wise GOP takeover in ‘22 and ‘24.

 

[rexanglorum]

Biden didn't take EO off the table, he said he won't use EO to try to jam through things he knows he doesn't have the power to do. Essentially don't expect sweeping fixes through EO like you get through legislation.

Biden is telling the cold hard truth, there are some things he can do somethings through EO, not everything.

Mitch doesn't need to compromise with Biden if he oversteps with EO, because the judiciary he packed will strike them down. Look at what they did to Obama when he tried to do the same thing like expand the overtime rule. Hell if he gets too crazy Obama and Clinton's judges might rule against him too.

Let me get this straight. So your complaint is that Biden said he won't troll the most ruthless politician in recent history by compromising to pass progressive legislation by signing an EO, and keep appealing it until the Supreme Court strikes it down. In some cases, if Biden loses the first trial, he could be blocked from institutions the policy altogether.

Dude, academics to Obama have talked about how ruthless and intractable Mitch McConnell is, so lets us not act like going wild with EO is some full proof plan Biden is ignoring

Look, we both know how intractable the GOP is, especially in the Senate. You know you can’t just reason with them. How would you go about getting some good, progressive things done if you were in Biden’s shoes?

 

[RustyShackleford]

By playing hardball, what I mean is that they shouldn't let bygones be bygones. I sense that Biden will do that, and I don't want him to. We - this country - can't really afford to let the GOP shenanigans go unpunished because they will learn:
- that disregarding the law works
- how to pick a better authoritarian who will finalize the minority rule project they have been implementing.

The other option is sitting back and watching the GOP implosion grow to the point where the party becomes toxic for any aspiring politician, and I don't think it's wise to be this passive. Past history tells us that if there's something we can count on, it's the GOP banding together when it counts.

My thing is that folk don't want to face the facts that the Dems don't have the power to properly punish GOP malfeasance

HR1, adding states, and packing the Supreme Court was the best way to do that. The Dems all agreed on the first thing, nearly all seemed to agree with the second, and the majority were warming up to the third. The problem is, the Dems because for a number of reasons, didn't blowout the GOP down-ballot so the situation is ******.

The problem goes far beyond Joe Biden and the Dems' supposed naivete or weakness. yet somehow, that is presented as the major issue.

 

[dacomeup]

- using the awesome power of the federal criminal-legal apparatus to arrest and try GOP donors and/or their adult children. Things like lying on mortgage applications and taking drugs, the stuff that wealthy people do that’s illegal but rarely enforced.

- Ignoring certain Supreme Court orders.

This is hardball? Sheesh. Well you can be prepared to get your Biden critiques off then if this is what you’re demanding.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Look, we both know how intractable the GOP is, especially in the Senate. You know you can’t just reason with them. How would you go about getting some good, progressive things done if you were in Biden’s shoes?

Work like hell to win those Georgia race so I can have a massive reconciliation bill

If I win those race, try to buy off Joe Manchin and Sinema

If we don't win those races, guess what, I don't know. No one really does.

 

[rexanglorum]

This is hardball? Sheesh. Well you can be prepared to get your Biden critiques off then if this is what you’re demanding.

I know he won’t, I’m having trouble seeing how he otherwise can deal with the GOP blockade in the Senate. I’m very worried that a competent fascist will come and finish us off in 2024.

 

[rexanglorum]

Work like hell to win those Georgia race so I can have a massive reconciliation bill

If I win those race, try to buy off Joe Manchin and Sinema

If we don't win those races, guess what, I don't know. No one really does.

I agree on all that.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Some combination of:

- Executive orders for labor and environmental regulations that go beyond what labor and environmental activist want.

- using the awesome power of the federal criminal-legal apparatus to arrest and try GOP donors and/or their adult children. Things like lying on mortgage applications and taking drugs, the stuff that wealthy people do that’s illegal but rarely enforced.

- Ignoring certain Supreme Court orders.

- Moving money within the federal government so taking money for defense and using it as part of a civilian jobs program.

Basically making life difficult for the GOP donor base and providing relief in exchange for legislative concessions.

I know it isn’t ideal but the GOP Senate and “moderate” Senate Dems are otherwise going to hamstring Biden’s administration and set up an even wise GOP takeover in ‘22 and ‘24.

So to fight GOP authoritarianism, Joe Biden should......check notes.....become an authoritarian president? That's the plan?