Official Revised LeBron X Thread: Pressures Launch 11/2 Details pg. 1

[longstroke]

Enlighten us as to how Adidas USES QUALITY as a selling point please. If they have "abandoned" their tech, then what is Adidas selling that is better than Nike? Also, please scientifically or definitively prove that Adidas quality is superior to or surpasses Nike's on A) Their most expensive price point shoe, B) Their "mid-range" priced shoe and C) Their lower price point shoe.
Is it safe to say that you can scientifically and without question prove that all Nike athletes who wear their basketball product would be unable to "blow out" or damage an Adidas shoe or is it POSSIBLE that the same if not worse would happen if Blake. Kobe, or Lebron wore say a Crazy light or D-rose sig version?

Sure.

When I say that Adidas has abandoned their tech, they move on, but they do not skimp on quality, especially in regard to the upper of their shoes, in which recently, specifically with the zero series, they've focused more on the upper in regard to performance. We all know that tech is an overused term in regard to footwear, but in regard to quality, the tech that goes into the durability of the lighter uppers, really makes a big difference, thus Blake's shoe ripping during play. Nike obviously didn't test that tech, which are nothing but engineered materials.

This is one of my big issues with Adidas, along with their lacking visibility. 

They do not promote their products in a manner that people will KNOW that the quality of their items, are far superior to that of Nike. I can give you two examples, with one showing how Adidas deals with anything that may be deemed either dangerous, or of poor quality. A few years ago, they were ready to release the team colorways of the A3 superstar ultra, but received information that a batch that were made, may have been defective. The heel would separate upon impact or something to that effect. So instead of finding the batch there were considered defective, they killed the whole line, instead of risking missing another batch they may have had issues.

This leads me to the other example, Adidas cannot afford to put out cheaply made products. In order to gain consumer confidence, they do not have the luxury that Nike has,  making mistakes in regard to quality control. Nike can simply say, hey, whatever. On to the next. Just put out something new, then call it innovative, hopefully people will forget about the old stuff.

Now the examples I've given you are not really scientific. But they are great examples of how a company may deal ethically with their customer base. 

You say quality lacks, and Nike is bending everyone over and laughing about it, so please provide something other than an article link to without question prove that Adidas or any other brand for that matter isn't doing the very same thing. Yeah, I am sure Reebok really can justify selling all the zig-tech crap in their lineup for the price they do, and for that matter, adidas probably putting Howard's shoe in walmart, menards, and Costco huh? I will expect to see D-rose's 3rd sig up in Meijer, Dollar General, and Aldi soon as well.

I don't know what you are asking here. Mind you, I am trying to be respectful in regard to your questions.

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]Rip on quality all you want, but don't try and manipulate the reality which is that most companies, whether they be shoe related, clothing related, consumer good related will skimp on quality whenever and wherever possible to improve their bottom line. Certain companies, like Patagonia for example, stand behind their quality and really emphasize that aspect of their product- but the flipside to that, is they have a loyal customer base that doesn't mind paying a premium for their product. They may be able to get cheaper, flashier, and trendier product, elsewhere, but they stick with a company like Patagonia because they really stand by (see their warranty and return/repair policy) their quality product.[/color]

Patagonia may have a wonderful reputation in regard to that, and I am certain that many companies would love to live up to that standard. However, it's pretty clear that Nike doesn't care, wouldn't you say? For the last few years, can you explain the constant complaints on the quality of Jordan Brand products?

They are made by Nike you know, never mind only talking about how bad Nike basketball has been for the last few years. They know that they must meet product demand, and it's killing their overall reputation. You cannot focus on quality, then put out as much as Nike does on a constant basis. It is their fault. 

Companies like Adidas, Patagonia, puts out far less, then having more control.

 

[zero23]

For the last few years, can you explain the constant complaints on the quality of Jordan Brand products?

Had to chime in here. Jordan Brand's RETRO's have horrible quality. That I agree upon. But their signature line (2010/2011/2012) all have amazing quality. I have 2010's and 2011's that have been used on court and straight up beat down, and they are still holding up and comfortable/responsive to the abuse of playing basketball. Even Fly Wade 2's hold up to this standard. Jordan Brand's Newer sig line are very comfortable and are made with great quality. My 2011's are the go-to currently for myself when playing ball.

Jordan Brand Retro's are more of a NSW type release for me now. 

 

[mrdozo]

Lebron brand is getting out of hand.
if the shoe isnt horribly over-priced $360
then the less over priced shoe $180 will be limited.

so youre either paying out of your **** or having a hard time coppin the limited lesser-priced shoe.

LBJ10, no thanks.

 

[Nipsey3000]

That's a great write up. Now, have your worn them, played in them in order to quantify those statements?

Also, just because a cushioning unit is bouncy, does not mean that it's what you are calling super responsive. That also does not mean that it's being bouncy is a good thing either. If a cushioning system is too active, what happens is that the shoe then becomes too unstable upon descent, and then during deceleration, which is where most injuries occur.

One thing that I've found interesting about Nike these days, is that this new cushioning set up, also the one used on the 9, is never used on any other shoe in the Nike line up. If it were such a blast, why didn't they use the system on models that are NOT sigs, so that people who do not want to wear sig shoes, can try out this new TECH as well?

This is why I cannot say that Nike is a performance driven company anymore. People will complain about Adidas abandoning their tech, as in Pure Motion, Alive, and so forth, but Nike does the same exact thing, yet never making any improvements, but also using tech and not quality as their selling points.

i already stated that i wasnt going to play in mine. i walked in them for 2 days straight in vegas this weekend. i never claimed to be a big "tech" guy on shoes, so i dont qualify to get into the performance debate.. i dont qualify to compare nike technology directly to adidas or any other shoe company.

i own a pair already...some of the true dudes in here that keep up with this post and/or the lebron IX post can attest that I have never tried to justify my purchase and say it was worth it because of the TLC put into the shoe, specs or anything else.

the shoe is super expensive, the price isnt justified. but when were prices justified? air zoom generations were 110 retail. but it still prob only cost nike

 

[thapointguy]

You ain't lying when talk about Nike not giving a damn with standards. The Dunkman IX with the Halo and without they let that **** slide. It's a minor thing but have some sort of consistency in your sig. product.

 

[c4]

Been saving lots of money on Brons (and kobes) the past couple years. Looks as if this will continue

 

[nikedealer]

Im still waiting on the scientific stuff.  Been waiting in a few threads now.  Since its an argument used AGAINST Nike.. how come theres no Scientific info FOR Adi.

That doesnt make much sense. 

I agree with this.  Adi cant afford to do certain things, because they dont have the following.  They dont have enough AKAs touting their brand nor telling the world how bad Nike is. This to me is proof positive that most of arguments are futile against Nike altho some claims are quite legitimate.

Everyone has defects.  Nike has recalls and doesnt even announce them... you just remove them from the assembly line and keep it moving.  B Grades are a step up from Fully passed and inspected kicks...and are labeled as such. 

To say Blakes shoe falling apart wouldnt happen to any other brand is absurd..  Is the Adi light quality materials?  I like it.. but arent they going the way of the Hyperfuse?  I said it myself...they took the Hyperfuse "technology" which is not tech at all... just mesh....and made the design aspect 10 times better albeit triangles still.

I also disagree that tooling "sole" tech IS tech and adds to the performance of the shoe.  Again AKA states its not good. Zoom is not good.  Squishy is not good.  Its just not good FOR HIM.  Some like it firm.. others not.

Hence the options Nike affords.

Also.. to answer why some tech is not offered in other shoes is...>IT IS... just not at the same time.. so that a Sig shoe can be featured with the Tech... and later it is shared.  360 was.. Zoom Max will be as well. 

I was ticked bottom loaded Zoom wasnt shared as much like the Jordans had for ONE year.

Come on man... Come with a better none recylcled argument that will actually make one change his mind about Nike.. Not opinion used as fact.  I say again and again. You have some good points.. but then you are asked those same questions about Adi and avoid them or just gloss over them.

Why is whats good for Adi isn't good for Nike.. and since they use alot of the same factories... your quality point is lost on me.

 

[sk33termcg33]

If he (AKA) were to provide the following, I would have no problem in giving him props:

The total number of defects out of total number of produced shoes by Nike basketball in a certain time-frame. If the sample size of defects is significant, meaning a rather large number out of the total, then we have a START to the discussion.

Then, I would like to see the same type of model used for Reebok, and Adidas. Thus, we would have a ratio of Nike defections in terms of quality and imperfections to a ratio of that of Adidas and Reebok.

Once we have these ratios, we can compare each to one another and truly see who is having the quality issues as we will have a rather pertinent sample size on the whole to compare to.

To say that "a handful of people on this site have posted pictures of imperfections on ONE MODEL of a Nike basketball shoe" is nowhere near enough to justify saying that Nike Basketball's footwear has far inferior quality in comparison to Adidas and Nike. That is like saying because 30 people bought Polo shirts that didn't have the Polo Horse on them, their quality is far less than that of Lacoste (this is just for comparison's sake to give you an idea of what I'm saying, don't say "you can't compare shoes to shirts" cause I'm not, I'm giving a baseline to show how ridiculous the statement sounds).

IF he does ALL of these, with evidence as to where he got the numbers from, and ONLY THEN we see a huge difference in said ratios mentioned earlier, I will GIVE FULL PROPS to AKA. But that's not going to happen so this is all based on his personal opinion and those of a "handful of people" on this website...

 

[longstroke]

Im still waiting on the scientific stuff.  Been waiting in a few threads now.  Since its an argument used AGAINST Nike.. how come theres no Scientific info FOR Adi.

That doesnt make much sense. 

I agree with this.  Adi cant afford to do certain things, because they dont have the following.  They dont have enough AKAs touting their brand nor telling the world how bad Nike is. This to me is proof positive that most of arguments are futile against Nike altho some claims are quite legitimate.

Everyone has defects.  Nike has recalls and doesnt even announce them... you just remove them from the assembly line and keep it moving.  B Grades are a step up from Fully passed and inspected kicks...and are labeled as such. 

To say Blakes shoe falling apart wouldnt happen to any other brand is absurd..  Is the Adi light quality materials?  I like it.. but arent they going the way of the Hyperfuse?  I said it myself...they took the Hyperfuse "technology" which is not tech at all... just mesh....and made the design aspect 10 times better albeit triangles still.

I also disagree that tooling "sole" tech IS tech and adds to the performance of the shoe.  Again AKA states its not good. Zoom is not good.  Squishy is not good.  Its just not good FOR HIM.  Some like it firm.. others not.

Hence the options Nike affords.

Also.. to answer why some tech is not offered in other shoes is...>IT IS... just not at the same time.. so that a Sig shoe can be featured with the Tech... and later it is shared.  360 was.. Zoom Max will be as well. 

I was ticked bottom loaded Zoom wasnt shared as much like the Jordans had for ONE year.

Come on man... Come with a better none recylcled argument that will actually make one change his mind about Nike.. Not opinion used as fact.  I say again and again. You have some good points.. but then you are asked those same questions about Adi and avoid them or just gloss over them.

Why is whats good for Adi isn't good for Nike.. and since they use alot of the same factories... your quality point is lost on me.

If he (AKA) were to provide the following, I would have no problem in giving him props:
The total number of defects out of total number of produced shoes by Nike basketball in a certain time-frame. If the sample size of defects is significant, meaning a rather large number out of the total, then we have a START to the discussion.
Then, I would like to see the same type of model used for Reebok, and Adidas. Thus, we would have a ratio of Nike defections in terms of quality and imperfections to a ratio of that of Adidas and Reebok.
Once we have these ratios, we can compare each to one another and truly see who is having the quality issues as we will have a rather pertinent sample size on the whole to compare to.
To say that "a handful of people on this site have posted pictures of imperfections on ONE MODEL of a Nike basketball shoe" is nowhere near enough to justify saying that Nike Basketball's footwear has far inferior quality in comparison to Adidas and Nike. That is like saying because 30 people bought Polo shirts that didn't have the Polo Horse on them, their quality is far less than that of Lacoste (this is just for comparison's sake to give you an idea of what I'm saying, don't say "you can't compare shoes to shirts" cause I'm not, I'm giving a baseline to show how ridiculous the statement sounds).
IF he does ALL of these, with evidence as to where he got the numbers from, and ONLY THEN we see a huge difference in said ratios mentioned earlier, I will GIVE FULL PROPS to AKA. But that's not going to happen so this is all based on his personal opinion and those of a "handful of people" on this website...

The points that I've made toward the other poster on quality are pretty clear. Nike makes so much product, that they are simply prone to having issues with their quality. For them to not employ enough people to catch the mishaps that reach the public means either they simply swallow, or they just...do... not...care. As much as people, even those such as yourself, like to complain about the quality of Jordan Brand retros, you cannot pick and choose when to complain about the overall quality that Nike produces, due to it ALL being produced by NIKE INC.

It's disingenuous to say the least. 

So the numbers involved IS the science. To quote former President Bill Clinton at the convention, ARITHMETIC.

Facts. Deal with it.

 

[memphissfinest]

UNLESS YOU ARE CURRENTLY AN EMPLOYEE OF THE RESPECTIVE COMPANIES WITH DIRECT INSIDE KNOWLEDGE ON THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS THEN ARGUING SOME OF THESE POINTS IS FUTILE. BUT THEN AGAIN, IF YOU WERE IN THAT POSITION, POSTING ABOUT IT ON NIKETALK WOULD BE INCREDIBLY STUPID FOR YOUR CAREER.

AT THIS POINT IT'S MOSTLY HE SAID, SHE SAID OR STRAIGHT UP OPINIONS.

 

[nikedealer]

So in other words you made it up called it science to make an argument.

Also.. you stated and admitted Nike makes so much product defects are bound to happen?

As for quality of Jordan Brand Retros... you wont catch me speaking on them too often... why?  I dont buy them.  If I get them free... I appreciate them. I do know where those problems come from...

BUT I also understand some people call creasing quality issues.  Thats not an issue.. thats called different leather use.  Some people call paint chipping quality issues.. they are cheaply used paints.  Its not a durability issue.

The only thing I wonder is how Retro's are worn by current ball players as they are most certainly NOT built as performance sneakers and are still using tech from 30 years ago lol..

BUT.. my uncle still balls in Chucks and doesnt complain... so who am I to tell him he's wrong in his choice of footwear... Im not.

 

[sk33termcg33]

Exactly Memph, which is why I say let people have their own opinions and stop trying to change people's minds. As much as AKA has posted recently, it has not stopped anyone from buying Nike's if they really want them, so I must ask why villainize or scrutinize for people buying what they like. And AKA will reply by saying how is he villainizing or scrutinizing people, but the tone of his posts come across exactly that way.

 

[andfattoo]

Im definitely readt for a performance review on these.

 

[datdudehavoc]

these sneakers are fire

 

[longstroke]

I don't think that anyone on this thread has recommended that any of you should cease buying Nike product. The suggestion is if you are UNHAPPY with the product being produced, and their prices, that it may be wise to take your business elsewhere. 

I did.

And Nike Dealer, as far as making things up are concerned, you may not want to go there, as I concede to your mastery.

So, how'd that last paycheck from Nike go again, or did you ever receive the first one at all?

 

[nikedealer]

I don't think that anyone on this thread has recommended that any of you should cease buying Nike product. The suggestion is if you are UNHAPPY with the product being produced, and their prices, that it may be wise to take your business elsewhere. 

I did.

And Nike Dealer, as far as making things up are concerned, you may not want to go there, as I concede to your mastery.

So, how'd that last paycheck from Nike go again, or did you ever receive the first one at all?

If you are challenging if I've ever receieved a check from the swoosh you may not want to put your check up against mine sir lol.. THAT argument would be futile....

As a matter of fact Id dare you to challenge it on one full check to another... but if only if your checks are above a certain threshold... it wouldnt be right if they weren't.

as far as suggesting people take their business elsewhere you've done so repeatedly with the same links.. pasting and rhetoric.... again and again...

So whats left?  At least I know where my allegiances lay... know I can speak ON them... and about them... but have YOU ever had someone from Portland or Germany sign you or your company a check for employment or consulting services?

I wonder.... 

So about those scientific "facts"....lol

I can handle some chump accusing me of scamming him cause I know its not true... you on the other hand.. how do you do you live with yourself knowing you spread opinion as truth and champion something that isnt moving the needle?

Ohhh thats right... because you remain anonymous... Im real... 

Another NT Thread derailed.

AKA 73 - NT 0

You are winning at something my man... 

 

[theprinceofde]

Oh damn

 

[nikedealer]

Man its old... real old. 

But when does simple discussion on the sneaker happen.

Nikes charging too much... the quality doesnt match the price tag... 

What the crap does Adi have to do with any of it?  Give me some GOOD points to talk about and discuss.. I've been known stead fastly to criticize the swoosh... Its well documented.. but when we throw all that other stuff in it with no relevance it burdens good convo we COULD be having.

If you had a debate without chastising and ridiculing as well as being the true Adi Champ we could always have a true adult convo.

When you take it there... I am not the one to hide sheepishly in the background.. but I'd prefer great debate.. but man.. you take it to places it never has to go lol...

Get another screen name "Chief AKA" and come back and start over.. people may warm up to a new approach... you were on the way with it for a while.. but soon reverted..

 

[jacktown83]

As much as I enjoy a good "sparring" match, can we put the sticks away and resume the conversation about the kicks? Everyone is right here. We all make our own money and no can/should tell another adult how to spend their money, regardsless of intention. Nobody is gonna bash dude if his chick wasn't to the standard of the general consensus, and even if that did happen SO WHAT! He's not gonna leave her because of it. All that to say.. I'd really like to see the effort of people posting information and not trying to bring each other down over a hobby. No disrespect intended to anyone offended

 

[longstroke]

As much as I enjoy a good "sparring" match, can we put the sticks away and resume the conversation about the kicks? Everyone is right here. We all make our own money and no can/should tell another adult how to spend their money, regardsless of intention. Nobody is gonna bash dude if his chick wasn't to the standard of the general consensus, and even if that did happen SO WHAT! He's not gonna leave her because of it. All that to say.. I'd really like to see the effort of people posting information and not trying to bring each other down over a hobby. No disrespect intended to anyone offended

So jacktown, 'sup man. 

So what do you think of these shoes yourself? Ar you a ballplayer, or simply a lover of kicks? Personally, I'd like to see Nike put this version of Zoom Max in a different shoe, preferably something in their team line.

 

[nikedealer]

Well said Jack and I agree sir...

The Zoom Max set up will be seen in other shoes... that are non sigs... 

But the intent was to feature it first with the sig line.  Just FYI

 

[trillkickz]

Anyone know I if the usa's are gonna be on Eastbay? Or another store beside HOH.

 

[jacktown83]

What's good Longstroke. Well, I used to play ball(organized and recreational) when I was in school, but now I am not NEARLY the ball player I used to be so I just play pickup games when time permits. I also am a kicks lover so that has me interested in this release more than the performance stand point does. As far as my opinion of the shoes I can only comment on the aesthetics of it and feel like it seems the designers pulled a Air Jordan X move. Like they wanted to do something for the tenth anniversary of LeBron being under the brand, but when tey won the championship like that took all the attention and they might have been SO far into the current design to go back and make significant changes. So I expect the XI to be something special like the Air Jordan XI. Overall I don't think it a bad design, just leaves too much for the imagination of "what could have been" compared to silhouettes currently releasing like the Hyperposite, considering its position in the Nike baksetball line up for the incoming season. But as far as seeing the "Zoom Max" in other shoes, I personally set Rock/NikeDealer about that months ago when word first officially surfaced that Zoom Max was the official cushioning system to be used. But for me, I'd like to see the face of my brand in that sport equipped with the most of the premium material to be offered. What would we think about a Nike Huperposite upper with a Lunarlon outsole, dynamic flywire, full length Zoom Air with double stacked Zoom in the heel and forefoot? At that rate I wouldn't care about Nike+, but if it were incorporated by putting the sensors an insole or something to be add then that's just gravy. If not I still feel like I would have a superior product represented by a superior athlete.


P.S. I think the whole "Zoom Max" was a little misleading, was expecting a Zoom bag to be "blown" up and visible like the Max Air system.

 

[the connoisseur]

If you are challenging if I've ever receieved a check from the swoosh you may not want to put your check up against mine sir lol.. THAT argument would be futile....

As a matter of fact Id dare you to challenge it on one full check to another... but if only if your checks are above a certain threshold... it wouldnt be right if they weren't.

as far as suggesting people take their business elsewhere you've done so repeatedly with the same links.. pasting and rhetoric.... again and again...


So whats left?  At least I know where my allegiances lay... know I can speak ON them... and about them... but have YOU ever had someone from Portland or Germany sign you or your company a check for employment or consulting services?

I wonder.... 

So about those scientific "facts"....lol

I can handle some chump accusing me of scamming him cause I know its not true... you on the other hand.. how do you do you live with yourself knowing you spread opinion as truth and champion something that isnt moving the needle?

Ohhh thats right... because you remain anonymous... Im real... 

Another NT Thread derailed.


AKA 73 - NT 0

You are winning at something my man... 

OWNED!!!

 

[longstroke]

What's good Longstroke. Well, I used to play ball(organized and recreational) when I was in school, but now I am not NEARLY the ball player I used to be so I just play pickup games when time permits. I also am a kicks lover so that has me interested in this release more than the performance stand point does. As far as my opinion of the shoes I can only comment on the aesthetics of it and feel like it seems the designers pulled a Air Jordan X move. Like they wanted to do something for the tenth anniversary of LeBron being under the brand, but when tey won the championship like that took all the attention and they might have been SO far into the current design to go back and make significant changes. So I expect the XI to be something special like the Air Jordan XI. Overall I don't think it a bad design, just leaves too much for the imagination of "what could have been" compared to silhouettes currently releasing like the Hyperposite, considering its position in the Nike baksetball line up for the incoming season. But as far as seeing the "Zoom Max" in other shoes, I personally set Rock/NikeDealer about that months ago when word first officially surfaced that Zoom Max was the official cushioning system to be used. But for me, I'd like to see the face of my brand in that sport equipped with the most of the premium material to be offered. What would we think about a Nike Huperposite upper with a Lunarlon outsole, dynamic flywire, full length Zoom Air with double stacked Zoom in the heel and forefoot? At that rate I wouldn't care about Nike+, but if it were incorporated by putting the sensors an insole or something to be add then that's just gravy. If not I still feel like I would have a superior product represented by a superior athlete.
P.S. I think the whole "Zoom Max" was a little misleading, was expecting a Zoom bag to be "blown" up and visible like the Max Air system.

Yeah man, I'd like to see some premium materials as well, as I even dig what Reebok is doing with the Question.....with the mixture of leathers, suede's and canvas. If Nike would do something like this, I'd buy. I know that these sort of materials will last.