Okay, can we FINALLY admit.....

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

"Yes, one man alone has that much power in relation to his team."

Doesn't replace the team though. LBJ wasn't winning those games with everyone else in the bench playing one on five.

What does the first sentence in your sig say?

I never implied that though. Every player has a different role on the court based on what he has shown he can handle; via practice, via other games, via personality, via attitude. LeBron was the focus of the team. Him playing well was a given. His teammates had smaller roles individually, but collectively, they had a big role. Them coming to play during the playoffs was not a given. It was not as sure fire as LeBron holding up his end of the "agreement."

So I ask, why is LeBron being blamed when he usually held up his end of the stick and his teammates generally didn't come playoff time. It wasn't LeBron that was the one choking during those meaningful moments. It was his teammates. So again I ask, why is LeBron being asked to somehow infuse those teammates with this super human ability at all times. He might have done it during the regular season, but there are many other factors that players face come playoff time. Why is LeBron being held responsible for those guys not bringing it on a consistent basis during the playoffs? He shouldn't be held responsible.

We're in agreement here. Just wanted to see where you wet coming from. You're right though, it's pretty silly how people blame another player when someone ELSE doesn't do his job. If LeBron has a bad game, I put it on LeBron, not Wade or Bosh. Same goes for them and every other player.

 

[duba169]

you have to be joking me with the excuses if he doesn't win this year. there are none.

 

[duba169]

you have to be joking me with the excuses if he doesn't win this year. there are none.

 

[xx legod xx]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by luxurious24

the heat has the third best record in the league, lebrons numbers overall are the best (26, 7, 7), so why shouldnt he be the leadin mvp candidate again?

But the thing is, the Heat are STILL not the favorite to win it all. The Lakers and Celtics are. The Heat are prime contenders, but they aren' thte favorite. So if they don't win it all. why should LeBronze be blamed and held responsible?

You people forget that these teams have to play other teams. So if those teams just have more better nights (series) why should the losing team's best player be blamed?

  

DC, this is a joke right?  You aren't serious are you.







Please tell me you aren't serious.  So Wade and Bosh aren't enough?  What, they need Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose too?

If you're going that route, they still don't have a post presence.

Spoiler

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This is a good discussion btw. Some people are letting their biased opinions show but continue....

 

[xx legod xx]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by luxurious24

the heat has the third best record in the league, lebrons numbers overall are the best (26, 7, 7), so why shouldnt he be the leadin mvp candidate again?

But the thing is, the Heat are STILL not the favorite to win it all. The Lakers and Celtics are. The Heat are prime contenders, but they aren' thte favorite. So if they don't win it all. why should LeBronze be blamed and held responsible?

You people forget that these teams have to play other teams. So if those teams just have more better nights (series) why should the losing team's best player be blamed?

  

DC, this is a joke right?  You aren't serious are you.







Please tell me you aren't serious.  So Wade and Bosh aren't enough?  What, they need Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose too?

If you're going that route, they still don't have a post presence.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

This is a good discussion btw. Some people are letting their biased opinions show but continue....

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by luxurious24

the heat has the third best record in the league, lebrons numbers overall are the best (26, 7, 7), so why shouldnt he be the leadin mvp candidate again?

But the thing is, the Heat are STILL not the favorite to win it all. The Lakers and Celtics are. The Heat are prime contenders, but they aren' thte favorite. So if they don't win it all. why should LeBronze be blamed and held responsible?

You people forget that these teams have to play other teams. So if those teams just have more better nights (series) why should the losing team's best player be blamed?

  

DC, this is a joke right?  You aren't serious are you.







Please tell me you aren't serious.  So Wade and Bosh aren't enough?  What, they need Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose too?

It's not enough to make them the favorites when you have no other depth besides them, but then again you're the same guy that thinks Jamison = Pau Gasol

  

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by luxurious24

the heat has the third best record in the league, lebrons numbers overall are the best (26, 7, 7), so why shouldnt he be the leadin mvp candidate again?

But the thing is, the Heat are STILL not the favorite to win it all. The Lakers and Celtics are. The Heat are prime contenders, but they aren' thte favorite. So if they don't win it all. why should LeBronze be blamed and held responsible?

You people forget that these teams have to play other teams. So if those teams just have more better nights (series) why should the losing team's best player be blamed?

  

DC, this is a joke right?  You aren't serious are you.







Please tell me you aren't serious.  So Wade and Bosh aren't enough?  What, they need Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose too?

It's not enough to make them the favorites when you have no other depth besides them, but then again you're the same guy that thinks Jamison = Pau Gasol

  

 

[duba169]

so they don't have depth now? because this summer all we heard was how good a job pat riley did with the surrounding cast. the sharpshooters mike miller, eddie house, and jones. long term contract for joel anthony and who can forget big Zeeeeeeeeee.

 

[duba169]

so they don't have depth now? because this summer all we heard was how good a job pat riley did with the surrounding cast. the sharpshooters mike miller, eddie house, and jones. long term contract for joel anthony and who can forget big Zeeeeeeeeee.

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by DubA169

so they don't have depth now? because this summer all we heard was how good a job pat riley did with the surrounding cast. the sharpshooters mike miller, eddie house, and jones. long term contract for joel anthony and who can forget big Zeeeeeeeeee.

Who was bigging up Joel and Big Z???!?!?!?!?!  

Eddie House and Mike Miller were good acquisitions but i dont remember ANYONE besides maybe you haters who like to act like Bron has been playing with ALL STARS his entire career, saying they were a "deep" team.    

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by DubA169

you have to be joking me with the excuses if he doesn't win this year. there are none.

He? Oh I thought this was a team game. My fault.

The reason why The Lakers are THE favorite is because they are the defending champs and they haven't lost a player from that mob. Yes they might be struggling, but they are the champs. To be the man you got to beat the man.

The Celtics are the runners up in my eyes because they are just as strong this year and KG is even stronger than he was last year. At best, Miami is the 3rd best option, but I wouldn't call them the favorite to win it all. I am not expecting them to win. You can take it as an excuse to take up for LeBron but it isn't.

I don't think Miami is better than Boston.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by DubA169

you have to be joking me with the excuses if he doesn't win this year. there are none.

He? Oh I thought this was a team game. My fault.

The reason why The Lakers are THE favorite is because they are the defending champs and they haven't lost a player from that mob. Yes they might be struggling, but they are the champs. To be the man you got to beat the man.

The Celtics are the runners up in my eyes because they are just as strong this year and KG is even stronger than he was last year. At best, Miami is the 3rd best option, but I wouldn't call them the favorite to win it all. I am not expecting them to win. You can take it as an excuse to take up for LeBron but it isn't.

I don't think Miami is better than Boston.

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by DubA169

so they don't have depth now? because this summer all we heard was how good a job pat riley did with the surrounding cast. the sharpshooters mike miller, eddie house, and jones. long term contract for joel anthony and who can forget big Zeeeeeeeeee.

Who was bigging up Joel and Big Z???!?!?!?!?!  

Eddie House and Mike Miller were good acquisitions but i dont remember ANYONE besides maybe you haters who like to act like Bron has been playing with ALL STARS his entire career, saying they were a "deep" team.    

 

[duba169]

haslem. oh boy they got haslem.

so when will lebron have a good enough supporting cast? bill Russel needs to be his center? it isn't fair unless he has a prime shaq? funny i remember mike winning without a legit center in the era of great centers.

he has dwayne freaking wade on his team. a star power forward. plus about 3 sharp shooters. he has no excuses. zlich. none.

if he loses we will see people blaming wade and bosh instead of the chosen one.

 

[duba169]

haslem. oh boy they got haslem.

so when will lebron have a good enough supporting cast? bill Russel needs to be his center? it isn't fair unless he has a prime shaq? funny i remember mike winning without a legit center in the era of great centers.

he has dwayne freaking wade on his team. a star power forward. plus about 3 sharp shooters. he has no excuses. zlich. none.

if he loses we will see people blaming wade and bosh instead of the chosen one.

 

[abovelegit1]

What a ridiculous argument. I detest the guy, but LeBron James is the best player in the league, and has been for a while now. He has in fact played at an MVP level this year, but I'd probably have him as runner up to Chris Paul at this point in the season.

And we actually can quantify LeBron's value to the Cavs last season. He was worth approximately 19 wins by himself last season, according to win shares. The next highest was Kevin Durant with approximately 16 win shares.

And yes, this metric does work. Use you brain before you inevitably bash the metric. 

[h2]

[h2]Does This Work?[/h2]
Because this metric is designed to estimate a player's contribution in terms of wins, it makes sense to see if the sum of player Win Shares for a particular team closely matches the team win total. For the 2008-09 Cavaliers the sum of player Win Shares is 67.9, while the team win total is 66, an error of 66 - 67.9 = -1.9 wins. For the 1964-65 Royals the sum of player Win Shares is 43.5, while the team total is 48, an error of 48 - 43.5 = 4.5 wins. These errors are actually close to the "typical" error; looking at all NBA teams since the 1962-63 season (the last season we have complete player splits), the average absolute error is 2.74 wins and the root mean squared error is 3.41 wins.

[/h2]


http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

 

[abovelegit1]

What a ridiculous argument. I detest the guy, but LeBron James is the best player in the league, and has been for a while now. He has in fact played at an MVP level this year, but I'd probably have him as runner up to Chris Paul at this point in the season.

And we actually can quantify LeBron's value to the Cavs last season. He was worth approximately 19 wins by himself last season, according to win shares. The next highest was Kevin Durant with approximately 16 win shares.

And yes, this metric does work. Use you brain before you inevitably bash the metric. 

[h2]

[h2]Does This Work?[/h2]
Because this metric is designed to estimate a player's contribution in terms of wins, it makes sense to see if the sum of player Win Shares for a particular team closely matches the team win total. For the 2008-09 Cavaliers the sum of player Win Shares is 67.9, while the team win total is 66, an error of 66 - 67.9 = -1.9 wins. For the 1964-65 Royals the sum of player Win Shares is 43.5, while the team total is 48, an error of 48 - 43.5 = 4.5 wins. These errors are actually close to the "typical" error; looking at all NBA teams since the 1962-63 season (the last season we have complete player splits), the average absolute error is 2.74 wins and the root mean squared error is 3.41 wins.

[/h2]


http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by DubA169

haslem. oh boy they got haslem.

so when will lebron have a good enough supporting cast? bill Russel needs to be his center? it isn't fair unless he has a prime shaq? funny i remember mike winning without a legit center in the era of great centers.

he has dwayne freaking wade on his team. a star power forward. plus about 3 sharp shooters. he has no excuses. zlich. none.

if he loses we will see people blaming wade and bosh instead of the chosen one.

 at you hella exagerrating.  NOBODY is talking about they need another star player but you're lying to yourself if you think they have great depth on that team.  Surprised a hater like you didn't mention the "great" college champion "clutch" player Mario Chalmers yet.

And 

 at you believing people will blame the other guys when we got people like you who blames Bron for EVERYTHING and calls him a "second fiddle" when he's CLEARLY playing like the # 1 guy on that team right now.

  

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by DubA169

haslem. oh boy they got haslem.

so when will lebron have a good enough supporting cast? bill Russel needs to be his center? it isn't fair unless he has a prime shaq? funny i remember mike winning without a legit center in the era of great centers.

he has dwayne freaking wade on his team. a star power forward. plus about 3 sharp shooters. he has no excuses. zlich. none.

if he loses we will see people blaming wade and bosh instead of the chosen one.

 at you hella exagerrating.  NOBODY is talking about they need another star player but you're lying to yourself if you think they have great depth on that team.  Surprised a hater like you didn't mention the "great" college champion "clutch" player Mario Chalmers yet.

And 

 at you believing people will blame the other guys when we got people like you who blames Bron for EVERYTHING and calls him a "second fiddle" when he's CLEARLY playing like the # 1 guy on that team right now.

  

 

[duba169]

AROD is better than Jeter. doesn't make it his team. but forget all that, just let me know how much more help he needs.

how much more depth does a team like that need. because i remember lebron claiming they would win the next 7

 

[duba169]

AROD is better than Jeter. doesn't make it his team. but forget all that, just let me know how much more help he needs.

how much more depth does a team like that need. because i remember lebron claiming they would win the next 7

 

[S4L]

but I'd probably have him as runner up to Chris Paul at this point in the season.
Only on NT do you find such gems like this...

 

[S4L]

but I'd probably have him as runner up to Chris Paul at this point in the season.
Only on NT do you find such gems like this...

 

[misterp0315]

LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were saying reckless stuff like...suit up Riley or whomever alongside them prior to the season.

No. I'm sorry. No excuses.

 

[misterp0315]

LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were saying reckless stuff like...suit up Riley or whomever alongside them prior to the season.

No. I'm sorry. No excuses.