Porsche 911 GT2 RS on the streets of LA

[airblaster503]

The fact that dudes in here are trying to justify at Charger over a GT2 for practicality are being...... well, impractical. If you have the money to drop on a car that is 200k+ are you actually thinking of practicality? Chances are you have several other whips in the garage to use as a daily driver. I have always loved the styling of Porsche, one of the best of all time for the reasons RFX is pointing out. They have remained relevant using basically the same design with just minor tweaks and the cars still look great up against any other car designs coming out today.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by airblaster503

The fact that dudes in here are trying to justify at Charger over a GT2 for practicality are being...... well, impractical. If you have the money to drop on a car that is 200k+ are you actually thinking of practicality? Chances are you have several other whips in the garage to use as a daily driver. I have always loved the styling of Porsche, one of the best of all time for the reasons RFX is pointing out. They have remained relevant using basically the same design with just minor tweaks and the cars still look great up against any other car designs coming out today.

Not only that but despite Ferrari and Lambo looking much better at a higher price range, the Porsche is like the iphone or the 3-series, everyone else is trying to take it down or looking for it's "killer." The GT3 is always being put up against supercars, as mentioned before the GT2 RS has the fastest time at Pikes Peak, they've broken records while performing consistently well through the years and still getting better. Just take the Cayman as an example, it is being compared to everything in it's class (and those not in it's class) and none has resoundingly beaten it. It is always the target, from the Lotus', BMW M1, Nissan 370Z, etc... and the Cayman always comes out on top. EVO recently gave a very slight win on the BMW M1 simply because of the pricing and what you get.

 Outside of styling, Ferrari and Lambo doesn't have a target on their back like Porsche does. Here's a good comparo of the Ferrari 458 vs the Porsche 911 GT3 RS:
http://PART 1
PART 2

 

[scshift]

The reason why Porsche has a target on it's back and Lamborghini and Ferrari don't, is because automakers know they can never be on Lamborghini or Ferrari's level.

Those two companies have a reputation, not just for performance, but as symbols. Porsche also has a reputation, but it's performance. They offer driver's cars, without the flair. Automakers can gun for Porsche because in order to beat Porsche, they just need to put up the numbers. The Nissan GTR took down the 911 and is now seen as an equal competitor. Yet, a GTR will never be seen on the same level as a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, and it's because of the brand. They stand for different things... and the two Italian supercar companies have a niche that will be very, very difficult for another company to challenge.

 

[youngtriz]

Originally Posted by scshift

The reason why Porsche has a target on it's back and Lamborghini and Ferrari don't, is because automakers know they can never be on Lamborghini or Ferrari's level.

Those two companies have a reputation, not just for performance, but as symbols. Porsche also has a reputation, but it's performance. They offer driver's cars, without the flair. Automakers can gun for Porsche because in order to beat Porsche, they just need to put up the numbers. The Nissan GTR took down the 911 and is now seen as an equal competitor. Yet, a GTR will never be seen on the same level as a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, and it's because of the brand. They stand for different things... and the two Italian supercar companies have a niche that will be very, very difficult for another company to challenge.

well said.... that is very true about the GTR.. people will look away just because it has a nissan badge... even though it can put up monster #'s vs the porsche

 

[rfx45]

Yah a GTR will never be on the same level as the Lambo or Ferrari but look at what people point at if you want the fastest for the buck? The GTR.

The Porsche continually outperforms supercars at a fraction of a price and Ferrari and Lambos offer huge powers along with great styling but it also comes at a premium price.

at automakers not competing with Ferraris and Lambo because they can't be on that level. At the end of the day, the car has to perform well and look good and for the price people would pay for Ferraris and Lambos, they are expected to be the best out there when they simply aren't. No doubt Ferrari and Lambos can look better than a Porsche but Porsche is still a great looking car and it happens to be on the top of the performance charts too. The GT2 RS is still the fastest mass produced vehicles at Nürburgring, LFA recently beat it but it's debatable whether the version they used can be considered "mass produced".

 

[scshift]

Well the problem is that people aren't buying Ferraris and Lamborghinis to be the best out there. Only a fool would think that.

If you were to tell me to pick one car for a race, I'd choose an AMS-tuned Alpha 10 Nissan GTR. Or a similarly tuned Nissan GTR. But Ferraris and Lamborghinis are symbols. Some use them as status symbols, others use them as automotive symbols... whatever. People buy them because they are "Ferrari" and "Lamborghini". They have evolved to become the most recognized and respected names in the automotive world.

If speed was my number one choice, I wouldn't look for a Ferrari or a Lambo. They're overpriced in the performance aspect, because the price accounts for the status of the manufacturer. Porsche is a great looking car but it's still one tier below the Ferrari/Lambo tier.

 

[10 piece nuggets]

In regards to Lambo and Ferrari, I always thought of the Ferrari's to be superior in performance. Lambo's were more for the aesthetic/symbol/status. Not that they are slow, but compared to other supercars.

 

[rfx45]

Well now you are going to whole new realm. First we are talking about performance and we are talking about stock cars here, nothing tuned or anything like that because you can make almost any car pretty fast if you have the $$$.

You're going to add the status symbol and the name into the discussion then it'll be completely different story. Of course no one is going to go after Ferrari or Lambo for that status symbol, those two brands have decades of history that cannot be matched. It'll be like a new watchmakers challenging Rolex, they can be innovative, look as good and perform better but a Rolex will still be a Rolex. You can't say that with the Porsche, they have the history, they're innovative and perform better. They look good too. Porsche is like Omega and Ferrari and Lambo isn't Patek, they're a Rolex. People still believe Rolex is the best because they look good and cost a lot and because it's what gives them that status symbol.

I honestly have no idea how Porsche is a tier below of Ferrari and Lambo. In terms of status symbol? In term of gaudiness? In terms of name? It's not that at all, these Italians isn't recognized and respected in the automotive world because of their name and because they are status symbols or their price. It's the whole package, they just do not compare performance-wise to Porsches but I think you are still putting these two Italian cars on a pedestal simply for their name and "prestige".


Oh and just to put it out there, if I were going to buy on looks alone, Aston Martin  wins hands down in my book.

 

[lb510]

v12 vantage> the GT2 but not by much
Can someone find the video of the vantage on Top Gear USA 

 

[scshift]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Well now you are going to whole new realm. First we are talking about performance and we are talking about stock cars here, nothing tuned or anything like that because you can make almost any car pretty fast if you have the $$$.

You're going to add the status symbol and the name into the discussion then it'll be completely different story. Of course no one is going to go after Ferrari or Lambo for that status symbol, those two brands have decades of history that cannot be matched. It'll be like a new watchmakers challenging Rolex, they can be innovative, look as good and perform better but a Rolex will still be a Rolex. You can't say that with the Porsche, they have the history, they're innovative and perform better. They look good too. Porsche is like Omega and Ferrari and Lambo isn't Patek, they're a Rolex. People still believe Rolex is the best because they look good and cost a lot and because it's what gives them that status symbol.

I honestly have no idea how Porsche is a tier below of Ferrari and Lambo. In terms of status symbol? In term of gaudiness? In terms of name? It's not that at all, these Italians isn't recognized and respected in the automotive world because of their name and because they are status symbols or their price. It's the whole package, they just do not compare performance-wise to Porsches but I think you are still putting these two Italian cars on a pedestal simply for their name and "prestige".

Oh and just to put it out there, if I were going to buy on looks alone, Aston Martin  wins hands down in my book.

Well keep in mind that I'm not arguing that Ferrari or Lamborghini are better than Porsche.

The general view is that a Porsche is on a lower tier than Ferrari and Lamborghini, and that's not me making it up. It's only people who either love Porsche or actually realize that Porsches can hold it down against Ferraris and Lamborghinis who buy the Porsches.

I personally respect and love all cars that have the performance and have the looks. Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari all have that, so I love them all in my book. Aston Marin and Maserati are great too, but they aren't as good for performance. But others regard Ferrari and Lamborghini as some of the top car brands... yes they are put on a pedestal, but that's just how the public sees them. One main reason is that those two companies don't offer cars available to the general public, while Porsche does (Cayman, Boxster, Carrera to some degree). That lack of attainability for Ferrari and Lambo makes them more coveted (in other people's eyes).

 

[celticspride34]

There's several reasons why Porsche isn't in the Italians league... in fact they're not even close... the closest cars to them are Pagani, Maserati, and high end Mercedes...

1- they all look the same... from a purists point of view its great and tradition... but this leads me to point 2
2- not all people that buy expensive cars are car people... a lot of people buy them only as status symbols and have no clue what model their driving... ask a typical LA blond driving a Ferrari what type of Ferrari it is and they'll respond red... and the reason they buy the Italians is they can't tell what Porsche is what... a Ferrari looks expensive, a Lamborghini looks expensive, Benz supercars look expensive... but Porsche's you know are expensive but basically besides the GT the typical non car guy can't tell the difference between a carrera 2 and a Turbo S drop top...
3- Porsche purists are annoying... they just are...
4- Porsche's are cheap compared to the Italians... when your wealthy why get the 175g Porsche when you can get a 450g Lamborghini...
5- you can drive them everyday... people that buy Ferraris and Lamborghinis don't want to drive them every day and they know they can't...

 

[shoebuyer78910]

beauty car

 

[ag 47]

Originally Posted by CelticsPride34

There's several reasons why Porsche isn't in the Italians league... in fact they're not even close... the closest cars to them are Pagani, Maserati, and high end Mercedes...

1- they all look the same... from a purists point of view its great and tradition... but this leads me to point 2
2- not all people that buy expensive cars are car people... a lot of people buy them only as status symbols and have no clue what model their driving... ask a typical LA blond driving a Ferrari what type of Ferrari it is and they'll respond red... and the reason they buy the Italians is they can't tell what Porsche is what... a Ferrari looks expensive, a Lamborghini looks expensive, Benz supercars look expensive... but Porsche's you know are expensive but basically besides the GT the typical non car guy can't tell the difference between a carrera 2 and a Turbo S drop top...
3- Porsche purists are annoying... they just are...
4- Porsche's are cheap compared to the Italians... when your wealthy why get the 175g Porsche when you can get a 450g Lamborghini...
5- you can drive them everyday... people that buy Ferraris and Lamborghinis don't want to drive them every day and they know they can't...

I thought the argument was about the Porsche's performance aspect. Half the things you mentioned are subjective.

In terms of performance, there's no way you can say that Porsche is "not even close" to the Italians. The numbers do no justify that claim.

 

[scshift]

Originally Posted by CelticsPride34

There's several reasons why Porsche isn't in the Italians league... in fact they're not even close... the closest cars to them are Pagani, Maserati, and high end Mercedes...

Maybe I misunderstood what you said... but Pagani is WAAAY out of Porsche's league. It's past Lamborghini and Ferrari too (their normal models). It's a hypercar, on the level of the Koenigseggs, Lambo SV, Ferrari Enzo... it is higher than the Murcielago and 458 on the hierarchy.

Originally Posted by AG 47

I thought the argument was about the Porsche's performance aspect. Half the things you mentioned are subjective.

The original argument was how Porsche's designs all look the same and how Lamborghini/Ferrari pushed/developed their designs.

 

[lstylez23]

lmao! at taking a charger over a Porsche GT2 though

 

[rfx45]

That is why it is so confusing. I can understand if someone puts Porsche on a lower tier because of price and status symbol but to say they aren't even close or in the same league only due to those reasons? Doesn't make much sense.


What I like about the Porsche the most is that you can drive it on a daily basis but can still be that weekend car if needed.
The more I can drive the car, the better. I don't want to pay a premium on a car and have it sit on the garage unless it is some rare classics like an Aston Martin DB4 or DB5.
I don't see a car being drivable as a negative and as a matter of fact, it makes it much better because I will feel that the money I paid is worth it.
I don't want to drive 2k miles and then the car won't start and need an $11k repair to go with a $10k annual maintenance cost.
Even if i'm a billionaire, I'd still be pretty pissed if I paid quarter a mil on a car I can't drive.

 

[Bert.]

surprised i havent said anything about Porsche in this thread.

anyways one of my all time fav cars is the newer 911 turbo. that car >>>>> any other Porsche and most other cars in the world. thing is beautiful and fast

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

surprised i havent said anything about Porsche in this thread.

anyways one of my all time fav cars is the newer 911 turbo. that car >>>>> any other Porsche and most other cars in the world. thing is beautiful and fast

I wouldn't say it is the best of all the Porsches but it does looks good.

 

[Bert.]

havent even seen the 2012 turbo but thats the carerra S.

seen a 09 Turbo the other day, man that thing was beautiful.

 

[limonyfresh]

nice

 

[rfx45]

I thought you were talking about the 991. The Turbo will like be the same but with a solid spoiler and maybe different body kit.

 

[scshift]

Originally Posted by RFX45

That is why it is so confusing. I can understand if someone puts Porsche on a lower tier because of price and status symbol but to say they aren't even close or in the same league only due to those reasons? Doesn't make much sense.

What I like about the Porsche the most is that you can drive it on a daily basis but can still be that weekend car if needed.
The more I can drive the car, the better. I don't want to pay a premium on a car and have it sit on the garage unless it is some rare classics like an Aston Martin DB4 or DB5.
I don't see a car being drivable as a negative and as a matter of fact, it makes it much better because I will feel that the money I paid is worth it.
I don't want to drive 2k miles and then the car won't start and need an $11k repair to go with a $10k annual maintenance cost.
Even if i'm a billionaire, I'd still be pretty pissed if I paid quarter a mil on a car I can't drive.

I agree with you. Lamborghini is my favorite car company but as I've stated in this thread and others, I'd love a Porsche just as a driving car. It's low-key (at least compared to Lambo/Ferrari), and from what I hear is one of the best companies if you want a car which really gives you that driving experience.
Hopefully by the time I'm ready I can pick up a 997 Porsche GT3 for cheap. I see beautiful black ones on ebay right now for around $80k, the alcantara interior in those is amazing.

I still love the Superleggera though... that's one of my favorite cars of all time.

 

[donttalkitlivit]

Originally Posted by Supermanblue79

Nice car, but I'd still choose a Hemi V8 sedan over this tech loaded Kindey Bean any day.

Another unreal NT'er. Finding a reason to dislike it.

 

[tizoni]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Maybe it's just me but the 2012 Charger SRT8 just doesn't look that attractive to me.
And the taillight is just horrendous.

that thing looks like a damn evo

 

[thockey66]

Originally Posted by mondaynightraw

Thockey is the ultimate lurker 

Basically. I browse for the comedy, and usually hold back from hitting the post button. I can certainly chime in move if you'd like?

BTW, the AD700s are still going strong. 'Preciate it.

Originally Posted by Al Audi

Thockey what are you whippin these days anyways?

Jeep Wrangler, just like the ole lady. Awesome summertime vehicle, but we'll have to see how it fares in the North East winter.

Thinking of a white 6.2L Ford Raptor as the next company rig. Full graphics package and everything. Not 'til next year at the earliest, though.

Originally Posted by GetThisMoney

Lambos werent perfected until the 80s, every model since then has become a classic.

There's been 5 models since then.

Originally Posted by RFX45

That is why it is so confusing. I can understand if someone puts Porsche on a lower tier because of price and status symbol but to say they aren't even close or in the same league only due to those reasons? Doesn't make much sense.


What I like about the Porsche the most is that you can drive it on a daily basis but can still be that weekend car if needed.

...Which is why people believe Porsche is not on the level with Ferrari/Lamborghini. A Porsche can be found in almost any neighborhood. They're wonderful cars in every aspect, but on the street, they're hardly noticeable. You run down the model lineup, and they offer so many variations with little or no visible change. Look at the Porsche website and you'll see 20 different offerings of the 911...which is quite ridiculous. To the general public, they'll have no idea between a $80k Carrera and $160k+ Turbo.

With a Ferrari or Lambo, of any time period, they just have a street presence, that certain "wow factor" that a Porsche just doesnt have. The sound, smell, and body lines in bright colors cause a commotion. When a Ferrari or Lamborghini roll down the street, you know it. The same cant be said for a Porsche.