QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[DeadsetAce]

Carson is legit, I don't care about folks who continue to try and find ways to discredit him so they can say they were right

same folks who don't watch the games but just look at stats

eye test is almost always > stats test

just gotta make sure the eye test is looking at the whole picture. but i don't think there is any doubt carson is passing the eye test with his play this year. no doubt.

 

[MambaMentality824]

One thing I want to mention in regards to Wentz. HIs yardage totals are relatively low but its important to take into account that he hasn't thrown more than 5 passes in a 4th quarter since week 5!! Thats pretty insane. A lot of our games have been blowouts by that point and hes been able sit or we've been exclusively running the ball by then to end the game. High yardage totals often come in close games or when your team is behind. Obviously great for the team but it is sort of hurting Wentz' overall numbers

 

[nick.]

Listening to LeBetard today, “Russel Wilson running for his life in a backwards loop for 15 yards on ever passing play is amazing “

It's like muscle memory to him now. Call hike, 3 step drop, escape the pocket.

I seriously wonder how different his game would be if he had a good OL.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Brady leads the NFL by a significant margin with 15 touchdown passes (Deshaun Watson is second with 10) on late developing plays (plays where he attempts a pass after 2.5 seconds) and also leads the league with a passer rating of 120.5 on these plays.

Pocket awareness and immobile mobility for days

 

[IATT]

O and saw y'all post pff above..

 

[IATT]

One thing I want to mention in regards to Wentz. HIs yardage totals are relatively low but its important to take into account that he hasn't thrown more than 5 passes in a 4th quarter since week 5!! Thats pretty insane. A lot of our games have been blowouts by that point and hes been able sit or we've been exclusively running the ball by then to end the game. High yardage totals often come in close games or when your team is behind. Obviously great for the team but it is sort of hurting Wentz' overall numbers

Yup Carolina game was our last full competitive game (Oct 12th).. he hasn't even taken a snap in the 4th in 3 out of our last 4


But I think Russell Wilson is doing the most with the least, he has quality WRs/TEs.. but line is crap, RBs are crap and defense losing stars PLUS a kicker who's losing it and legit cost them 2-3 games

The MVP debate is a good one.. AB is doing a lot with little support as well, Ben been playing like crap and missing dude especially early in the season and leveon hasn't been playing that great aside from a ton of usage

 

[CP1708]

The Kizer thing is drops. Ian Wharton has pointed out a lot of throws on the money flat out dropped, hence ratings not matching stats. Something I've brought up in here for years.

He isn't saying Kizer is good, he simply points out factors hurting him that are out of his control.

 

[IATT]

This Ian Wharton?

 

[CP1708]

Yes, I'm well aware you Philly dudes keep detailed notes on every human who doesn't suck Wentz off, I get that means Kizers throws that are dropped with video evidence are null and void.

 

[IATT]

Yes, I'm well aware you Philly dudes keep detailed notes on every human who doesn't suck Wentz off, I get that means Kizers throws that are dropped with video evidence are null and void.

'Dropped passes' when Nelson agholor, Jordan Matthews and Dorial green Beckham were wentz's main WRs his rookie year


And you seem awfully defensive and sensitive about this subject matter.. almost like you had a strong take and somehow feel the need to defend said take instead of having an objective conversation on the subject matter

 

[IATT]

And just for clarity, I would have wentz 3rd in the MVP vote currently..

Behind Russ and then brady.. although the whole schedule thing applies to the pats and Seahawks too

Pretty sure all 3 teams only got 1 win over teams currently over .500

 

[CP1708]

'Dropped passes' when Nelson agholor, Jordan Matthews and Dorial green Beckham were wentz's main WRs his rookie year


And you seem awfully defensive and sensitive about this subject matter.. almost like you had a strong take and somehow feel the need to defend said take instead of having an objective conversation on the subject matter

 

[IATT]

who doesn't suck Wentz off.

Awfully big jump from 'suckin' off' to:

"Nothing"

And

"there’s no rational reason to expect him to"

And

"Sure, wentz could get better"

Full quote:

Before season, after his rookie and only year in the league:
http://presnapreads.com/2017/08/22/carson-wentz-blake-bortles/

 

[IATT]

Great convo buddy.. real rational.. suckin off wentz right..

 

[CP1708]

Ian Wharton wrote that?

 

[CP1708]

Great convo buddy.. real rational.. suckin off wentz right..

There is no convo. Philly dudes scour the internet for any anti Wentz words they can find, it's hilarious. You guys make Seahawk fans seem rational.

 

[IATT]

There is no convo. Philly dudes scour the internet for any anti Wentz words they can find, it's hilarious. You guys make Seahawk fans seem rational.

Scoured the internet, while referencing the 2 names you recently used

Search function ain't that hard to use.. google and twitter been around from a lil bit now

You're on the side using "nothing" and "no rational reason" and we are the extreme.. ok buddy

 

[CP1708]

I said Ian Wharton, you posted a Cian Fahey article. Am I reading that wrong?

You showed that tweet, but not the ones where he praises Wentz.

And him referencing Kizer being screwed by Cleveland players (and let's be real here, they suck) has literally nothing to do with Wentz. Literally, nothing. Not one single thing. Wentz isn't dropping the passes from Kizer, so why you went there is both transparent and a waste of my time.

It is possible to speak on QB's and not relate them all to Carson Wentz. But I guess he's the new Russ now, praise thee or suffer thy wrath. We all get it.
Ah salami lake em great Carson. *Salute*

ah salami lake em, I hope I get credit for that and it's never been used before. *Fingers crossed*

 

[IATT]

I said Ian Wharton, you posted a Cian Fahey article. Am I reading that wrong?

You showed that tweet, but not the ones where he praises Wentz.

And him referencing Kizer being screwed by Cleveland players (and let's be real here, they suck) has literally nothing to do with Wentz. Literally, nothing. Not one single thing. Wentz isn't dropping the passes from Kizer, so why you went there is both transparent and a waste of my time.

It is possible to speak on QB's and not relate them all to Carson Wentz. But I guess he's the new Russ now, praise thee or suffer thy wrath. We all get it.
Ah salami lake em great Carson. *Salute*

ah salami lake em, I hope I get credit for that and it's never been used before. *Fingers crossed*

The only reason we're talking about kizor is because of the tweet I posted comparing the grades PFF gave wentz and kizor for their play yesterday, respectively

I never actually stated my opinion on ian or PFF.. but their (PFF) system is flawed based on the grading I see for my actual team (they have our slot CB graded as our best player for the year, on the whole team.. and he's having a good season but there are guys on our defensive line alone who are having better seasons and making his job easier)

Just a few posts up, you tried defending Cian's take on Russell with zero clue of what that take actually was.. funny, I posted the specific take that was referenced and you made zero effort to actually address that

Buttttt eagles and Seahawks fans are the extreme, right?

Not the guy saying Russ is as much of the problem in Seattle.. and "nothing and "no rational reason" in regard to wentz

 

[a55a5in11]

There is no convo. Philly dudes scour the internet for any anti Wentz words they can find, it's hilarious. You guys make Seahawk fans seem rational.

Stop

 

[CP1708]

PFF is flawed because they eval every single snap on every single player of every single game, vs you watching games on TV? I mean......ok, I guess.

They specifically mention that drop by Coleman that I showed you. That was a TD. He had "no" TD's, hence his "QB rating" was low. Compare that to Algohlor taking a nothing throw to the pylon and Carson's rating jumping.

Grade wise, it's completely opposite. You can disagree but the logic of that is 100% right. Same as Cian not giving credit to QB's who throw an INT dropped, then follow with a TD. (I call that the Derek Carr special) Again, you can argue against it, but the logic is solid.

I've argued similar things FOR YEARS on this board. Years. I've asked a thousand times, do we credit Eli for the helmet catch? Or the OBJ one handed TD. Do we credit Rodgers for hail Mary heaves? The Russ game winning INT called a touchdown?

I've said since day one QB's are given too much credit, and too much blame. League wide, year after year after year. PFF, Wharton, Cian, Scott Kazmar (SP?) All try to eval in similar methods. They go deeper than QB rating or yards passing.

The new play now is the jet sweep, hike catch, iono.....drop play Brady "threw" to Cooks for a 1 yard TD. "Passing" TD for Brady. Look at the play, it's hilarious it's considered a TD, but here we are. QB "stats". Should PFF credit that"throw"? Are they stupid to ignore it and give no points for that play, yet they would still credit the line for blocking and Cooks for making any moves or breaking a tackle, etc. (He didn't have to in this example).

I don't think highly of Kizer. But I get why his PFF ratings would be higher than his traditional stats. Not that difficult to decipher.

 

[CP1708]

Stop

You guys don't wanna be more rational than Philly fans? I was tryna be on y'all's side on this one.

 

[IATT]

PFF is flawed because they eval every single snap on every single player of every single game, vs you watching games on TV? I mean......ok, I guess.

They specifically mention that drop by Coleman that I showed you. That was a TD. He had "no" TD's, hence his "QB rating" was low. Compare that to Algohlor taking a nothing throw to the pylon and Carson's rating jumping.

Grade wise, it's completely opposite. You can disagree but the logic of that is 100% right. Same as Cian not giving credit to QB's who throw an INT dropped, then follow with a TD. (I call that the Derek Carr special) Again, you can argue against it, but the logic is solid.

I've argued similar things FOR YEARS on this board. Years. I've asked a thousand times, do we credit Eli for the helmet catch? Or the OBJ one handed TD. Do we credit Rodgers for hail Mary heaves? The Russ game winning INT called a touchdown?

I've said since day one QB's are given too much credit, and too much blame. League wide, year after year after year. PFF, Wharton, Cian, Scott Kazmar (SP?) All try to eval in similar methods. They go deeper than QB rating or yards passing.

The new play now is the jet sweep, hike catch, iono.....drop play Brady "threw" to Cooks for a 1 yard TD. "Passing" TD for Brady. Look at the play, it's hilarious it's considered a TD, but here we are. QB "stats". Should PFF credit that"throw"? Are they stupid to ignore it and give no points for that play, yet they would still credit the line for blocking and Cooks for making any moves or breaking a tackle, etc. (He didn't have to in this example).

I don't think highly of Kizer. But I get why his PFF ratings would be higher than his traditional stats. Not that difficult to decipher.

At the time of the game, outside of a handful of exceptions.. we're all watching games on television

it is an incredible task to cover every single team in the league.. which is why, as I've stated numerous times I prefer to listen/read/follow the guys who cover my team specifically for the most part.. they break down game play as well

But PFF doesn't have the time to do what you are claiming in the swift manner that they do when they give out their initial grades

Plus it is asking a crap load to really expect dudes to break down every single position on every single play for every single team.. but if you are going to accept that claim as the gospel well, all power to you

 

[CP1708]

You prefer to listen to Philly guys "breakdown" info for you?

I prefer national folks who focus on all. I don't want homer information.

And PFF isn't 1-2 guys doin all the games, they have diff folks covering each one. Unless they're lying to us.

Doesn't NBC use PFF in their broadcasts now?

 

[a55a5in11]

All I know is PFF releases their stats before the all22 even comes out. I take what they say very lightly