Shooting Reported at Las Vegas Casino Hotel

[danikerhino]

sure, we can ignore accidental murder. it doesn't really change the debate in my opinion. unless you're also saying we should ignore suicide?

This is about addressing gun regulation which will derail mass murder like this. You CAN compare the overall deaths, but that doesn't have anything to do with mass murder and therefore has no merit in this convo.

 

[deleted]

No deflection at all. I'm waiting for someone to admit both are problematic, but when it hits close to home, because you drink you discard it.

Me, who doesn't drink. I can say ban alcohol. It doesn't affect me.

And I want people to acknowledge death is death, and we should be trying to stop all senseless death. Instead we focus on the shiny penny.

I bet if you had someone close to you die because of alcohol you wouldn't be so quick to brush it off as "deflection"

Imagine a drunk man with a gun. What's the most dangerous component of that scenario?

 

[rolaholic]

60% of gun deaths are suicides (i.e. inward harm) while most of the rest are homicides (i.e. outward harm). Roughly 33k deaths per year in the US.

I can't find good numbers for alcohol, but there are significant inward harms (cirrhosis, dependence, etc.) along with outward harms (drunk driving, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc.). Roughly 88k deaths per year in the US.

Anyway, I don't even know what original point was. But I think both are blights on society, both disproportionately ruin the lives of younger people, but only one has active research and intervention programs.

You highlighted a big but often overlooked aspect of the gun control debate,suicides and domestic violence. Gun control/regulation might and probably won't stop all mass shootings but it could definitely help decrease suicide rates and domestic murder.

 

[Magic33]

What can't a gun that you build on your own be registered, theoretically?

You build it, report it to the appropriate authorities, get a registration number for it.

Why would you report it? What's the incentive?

Why would you want the government knowing the guns you have? I don't trust the government with that information first of all.

But say the law abiding citizens report their guns

You think the criminals are going to do it? So what does that do?

 

[Magic33]

I'm a dark-skinned minority.

So is Ninjahood and Jason Whitlock. Congrats

 

[MVP]

So do you guys believe in guns to protect your family?

Say only handguns should be allowed.

But what about the people who have semi autos? You can build your own also. So it doesn't have to be registered. You can buy the parts. Do you eliminate that?

Handguns are fine if one needs it for protection.

Are semi automatic and assault weapons needed to protect your family?

People who have semi autos now could be have incentives (ie. a buyback program) like other countries and as I mentioned California did on assault weapons last year. If you are caught in possession of those, there are penalties.

Eliminate as much of the parts as possible on the legal side. You can't curtail everything, but that's hardly an excuse for doing nothing. Also magazine restrictions are needed as well.

 

[whywesteppin]

And I want people to acknowledge death is death, and we should be trying to stop all senseless death. Instead we focus on the shiny penny.

And we do do a lot to try to stop senseless death. Study up on automobile safety. Or how airline safety has completely decimated the likelihood of dying on a flight. Or look at the number for smoking deaths in this country. Look at what's happened with deaths from AIDS. Look at the longevity for cancer now vs. 30 years ago. I could go on and on. We spend billions of dollars and the government funds research and programs to increase public safety and limit all these deaths.

Why don't we do the same for guns????????

 

[danikerhino]

And we do do a lot to try to stop senseless death. Study up on automobile safety. Or how airline safety has completely decimated the likelihood of dying on a flight. Or look at the number for smoking deaths in this country. Look at what's happened with deaths from AIDS. Look at the longevity for cancer now vs. 30 years ago. I could go on and on. We spend billions of dollars and the government funds research and programs to increase public safety and limit all these deaths.

Why don't we do the same for guns????????

Now that's a great question, you'd think NRA would push this. But, again it's a cultural thing so you may have to attack this issue from many angles.

 

[outhere]

So do you guys believe in guns to protect your family?

Say only handguns should be allowed.

But what about the people who have semi autos? You can build your own also. So it doesn't have to be registered. You can buy the parts. Do you eliminate that?

I'm conflicted. On one end I'd want to completely repeal guns with stringent laws on those that possess them, but on the other end society has evolved to where you'd potentially need a gun to protect yourself.

 

[MVP]

No deflection at all. I'm waiting for someone to admit both are problematic, but when it hits close to home, because you drink you discard it.

Me, who doesn't drink. I can say ban alcohol. It doesn't affect me.

And I want people to acknowledge death is death, and we should be trying to stop all senseless death. Instead we focus on the shiny penny.

I bet if you had someone close to you die because of alcohol you wouldn't be so quick to brush it off as "deflection"

I've had alcohol abuse affect my family directly so much that my family was broken up by it. Don't assume anything about me. My post earlier summed up my feelings about this, we can acknowledge and address multiple things at once or at least being the top species on the planet with brain capacities we should be able to. We've had what about drugs, what about alcohol, what about natural disasters, what about obesity brought up in here today. Not a single thing has anything to do with addressing the gun culture in the country. That's what makes them deflections. We can talk about mass shootings as well as other prevailing gun issues related to homicides and suicides, as well as the ease to which almost anyone can gain access to a firearm, but quite frankly I don't think some of the people in here want to have a genuine discussion. They just believe all of us (and apparently some people explicitly said this earlier) take their guns and keep saying there's nothing we can do so why try. Even when there are legit policy solutions and examples of it working being presented.

 

[whywesteppin]

Now that's a great question, you'd think NRA would push this. But, again it's a cultural thing so you may have to attack this issue from many angles.

Fully agreed. Adding restrictions on gun laws by itself is not going to magically rid us of mass shootings.

We need a multifaceted approach. We need to study mental disease and come up with better treatment, therapy, and intervention. We need to study what changes in gun laws and gun technology would lead to fewer murders and suicides. We need to figure out the link between gun culture in this country and gun violence. And so on.

But first we need to decide as a nation that we're more concerned with continued violence than we are with protecting some 18th century notion of self-defense with 21st century weapons.

 

[Nike Jordan]

So is Ninjahood and Jason Whitlock. Congrats

 

[Magic33]

And we do do a lot to try to stop senseless death. Study up on automobile safety. Or how airline safety has completely decimated the likelihood of dying on a flight. Or look at the number for smoking deaths in this country. Look at what's happened with deaths from AIDS. Look at the longevity for cancer now vs. 30 years ago. I could go on and on. We spend billions of dollars and the government funds research and programs to increase public safety and limit all these deaths.

Why don't we do the same for guns????????

I think the NRA is a problem. The NRA isn't for the people, they're a lobbyist for gun companies. Not enough people realize that.

I think one issue is people need to be educated about guns. It's two opposite sides, without either seeing the grey area.

This country treats, guns, sex and drugs/alcohol improperly.

I'm conflicted. On one end I'd want to completely repeal guns with stringent laws on those that possess them, but on the other end society has evolved to where you'd potentially need a gun to protect yourself.

My thought process is I don't want to be out gunned for my safety.

Like I said, this country has been built on guns for 500 years. There's so many guns out here that if you want to do bad, you can get a gun and any type of gun you want.

 

[getback]

Why would you report it? What's the incentive?

The incentive is to not get pinched with an unlicensed firearm and end up doing a mandatory 5 yr sentence in the pen.

Simultaneously, it would be a good will gesture towards "responsible gun ownership."

 

[SneakerProSr.]

The way I see it is that guns are designed to kill period. In the wrong hands, one is capable of mass murder. Yes, alcohol and a car is

I've had alcohol abuse affect my family directly so much that my family was broken up by it. Don't assume anything about me. My post earlier summed up my feelings about this, we can acknowledge and address multiple things at once or at least being the top species on the planet with brain capacities we should be able to. We've had what about drugs, what about alcohol, what about natural disasters, what about obesity brought up in here today. Not a single thing has anything to do with addressing the gun culture in the country. That's what makes them deflections. We can talk about mass shootings as well as other prevailing gun issues related to homicides and suicides, as well as the ease to which almost anyone can gain access to a firearm, but quite frankly I don't think some of the people in here want to have a genuine discussion. They just believe all of us (and apparently some people explicitly said this earlier) take their guns and keep saying there's nothing we can do so why try. Even when there are legit policy solutions and examples of it working being presented.

You assumed no one in my life had ever been shot 3 pages ago

 

[RustyShackleford]

Why would you report it? What's the incentive?

Why would you want the government knowing the guns you have? I don't trust the government with that information first of all.

But say the law abiding citizens report their guns

You think the criminals are going to do it? So what does that do?

So it is just gonna be a game of whataboutism with you?

-The incentive to report it is to follow the law. If they don't, then hope a law enforcement agent never finds it, or you never have to defend your family...............with an illegal gun. There could be potential fines or other punishments

-I would want the government to keep track of critical info about the country, like the number of guns in circulation. You not trusting the government is a YOU problem, the country shouldn't dismiss what might be decent public policy over your feelings.

-And criminals will break the law, that is why they are criminals. And in case you missed it, not registering the gun would make you a criminal too, and using the "criminals do it so I should be able to" is the silliest defense in the gun control debate.

Also, opponents of gun control also don't want the CDC investigating gun violence and keep the ATF hamstrung. So maybe if you are so worried about criminals, you should look at people on your side of the argument.

But yeah, these are just suggestions, I don't have every single answer. Sp how about American have a discussion about this as a country and demand our federal government conduct research and have public trials regarding this issue to see what can and can't work.

OH YEAH

People are against that too.

 

[RustyShackleford]

So is Ninjahood and Jason Whitlock. Congrats

For a dude that is older, you sure do act petulant a lot

 

[Magic33]

Fully agreed. Adding restrictions on gun laws by itself is not going to magically rid us of mass shootings.

We need a multifaceted approach. We need to study mental disease and come up with better treatment, therapy, and intervention. We need to study what changes in gun laws and gun technology would lead to fewer murders and suicides. We need to figure out the link between gun culture in this country and gun violence. And so on.

But first we need to decide as a nation that we're more concerned with continued violence than we are with protecting some 18th century notion of self-defense with 21st century weapons.

You would think the NRA would concede tighter mental regulation as a compromise.

IMO that shows that they aren't for the people, because I doubt you would find even many NRA members who would oppose that.

 

[whywesteppin]

You would think the NRA would concede tighter mental regulation as a compromise.

IMO that shows that they aren't for the people, because I doubt you would find even many NRA members who would oppose that.

I'm too tired to look up the details/sources now, and I'm hungry, but the NRA completely changed the public discourse and arguments on gun control over the past 20-30 years.

It's transparent and it's sickening that we know it happened but still let it happen and are now too ***** to call them out on a national level. They have blood on their hands. Lots of blood.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

The NRA is literally just a front for gun manufacters at this point.

 

[MVP]

And where did I do this? SneakerProSr.

 

[Based Jesus]

I think the NRA is a problem. The NRA isn't for the people, they're a lobbyist for gun companies. Not enough people realize that.

I think one issue is people need to be educated about guns. It's two opposite sides, without either seeing the grey area.

This country treats, guns, sex and drugs/alcohol improperly.

I completely agree. Look at what proper education, along with legal measures, has done to the tobacco industry.
They used to have a serious stranglehold on America and now the numbers of smokers goes down with each new generation.

 

[Barbados Slim]

So it is just gonna be a game of whataboutism with you?

-The incentive to report it is to follow the law. If they don't, then hope a law enforcement agent never finds it, or you never have to defend your family...............with an illegal gun. There could be potential fines or other punishments

-I would want the government to keep track of critical info about the country, like the number of guns in circulation. You not trusting the government is a YOU, problem, the country shouldn't dismiss what might be decent public policy over you feelings.

-And criminals will break the law, that is why they are criminals. And in case you missed it, not registering the gun would make you a criminal too, and using the "criminals do it so I should be able to" is the silliest defense in the gun control debate.

Also, opponents of gun control also don't want the CDC investigating gun violence and keep the ATF hamstrung. So maybe if you are so worried about criminals, you look at people on your side of the argument.

But yeah, these are just suggestions, I don't have every single answer. Sp how about American have a discussion about this as a country and demand our federal government conduct research and have public trials regarding this issue to see what can and can't work.

OH YEAH

People are against that too.

All of This, but unfortunately the fact that this isn't common knowledge is sad.

 

[Magic33]

For a dude that is older, you sure do act petulant a lot

I dish out what you give in the same exact tone. I will out insult you. I will be more sarcastic than you.

Because people say stuff they wouldn't offline.

It's interesting what you defend.

Any self respecting black person in this country wouldn't have made that gun comment correlation with Trayvon. Maybe you don't get it.

 

[sfc415]

These deflections are so damn idiotic. Are you guys really trying to say that people aren't against deaths via DUIs, ODs, etc.? I don't get the point of these bull @#$@ "but what about black on black crime in Chicago" style comments. You can care about all three issues at the same time.

Also, it is extremely stupid to equate accidental deaths to deaths caused solely via malicious intent (to kill). Someone who dies after ODing on heroin is not the same as someone getting shot by a terrorist