Should the NBA retire the number 23 for Micheal Jordan like the NHL did for Wayne Gretzky?

[eeibaby]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by kdawg

Originally Posted by mst9023

they should retire the number 23, in honor of his airness. he was the greatest player to ever walk on the court and out of respect to what he did for the game they need to do this. and dude saying kobe and lebron are better? Michale Jordan was the best basketball player in what i consider the golden age of basketball. he has played with and against some of the greatest players to ever play, and he made most of them look like fools. He revoloutionized the game and all of us who have seen him play live have tried to copy his every move on the court. the nba needs to recognize him as the greatest and retire his number now and make anyone wearing it change it.

He didn't revolutionize the game - he did things that Dr J and others did before him - sure, at a greater level and he used his determination and great athleticism to do some things differently but it wasn't as groundbreaking as the highlight reels make out.

Thank you!



He did revolutionize in making the game of basketball more popular, if MJ wasn't around NBA wouldn't be as big as it is today

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

Originally Posted by cmote

I find it funny that all these younger guys think L'BRON and Kobe are better than MJ. When Mike first came in ,people said he was just a scorer. He got better at defense and involving his teammates and then they were able to win. Kobe and Lebron seem to only score, Kobe is a decent defender, but they are not at the level of Mike. Funny how times change, just scoring is what some guys consider good now, but Mike was called a ball hog! Yes the League should retire 23, just for the impact alone that Mike had on the league, especially from the global exposure they got because of him.

the global exposure had already started with magic and bird in the early 80's taking finals games from being tape delays being shown on tv the next dayinto prime time. jordan comming was like the icing on the cake but his global impact didn't really take place until the 90's because during his earlyyears the lakers and pistons won most of the titles.

like the other person said retiring 23 is like saying, "ok magic, kareem, wilt, bird, russell, etc you guys and your accomplishments were good but werenot going to bother retiring your numbers league wide"

for the kobe lebron > mj talk, its annoying but most of the people saying it are younger and really didn't get to watch jordan play much in his prime. im sure us who watched the nba in the 80's or 90's would say favorite player from the 80's or 90's > players from 60's or 70's just off the strength we seen the current guy play.

finally while i don't think when it's all said and done kobe or lebron will never be > jordan carreer or impact wise, we as basketball fansshould be hoping that someone eventually comes along thats better then jordan. we want to watch the best play, so if someone comes in somewhere down the linewith a bigger work ethic, desire to improve their flaws and develop their game then jordan had it's fully possible someone can be better then jordan and ifwe ever get that, its good for us and the league to watch someone that great again.

 

[blazinrook]

MJ didn't revolutionize the game....ok,

trippin if you think MJ didn't elevate basketball to a global status?

all of you MJ haters need to step off

 

[blazinrook]

global revolution already started....?

ain't no one reppin magic or bird over seas

There is a reason why his shoes are the most successful basketball shoes to ever hit the market

 

[duba169]

what has MJ done for the world besides create overpriced shoes for kids to kill each other for?

 

[blazinrook]

ok what has gretzkey done for the world?

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

global revolution already started....?

ain't no one reppin magic or bird over seas

There is a reason why his shoes are the most successful basketball shoes to ever hit the market

check your history. the nba started playing overseas games in the 80's. compare the nba to how it was in 1979 to how it became in 1985. noone gave a crap about the nba pre magic/ bird, things sure changed alot once they came along. also the globalization was due in part because of david sternwanting to focus on catering and appealing to overseas markets. jordan was huge in the 90's overseas wise but your foolish if you think he's the solereason the nba became so popular global wise.

nike marketing and tinker hatfield are prime reasons jordans shoes were so sucessful. realisticly if he signed with a company like dumb reebok or adidaswho have no clue how to market their players and make a nice stylish shoe that is good performance wise, he wouldn't have had nearly the same success hehad with nike. his shoes would have sold off the strength of him being michael jordan but he wouldn't have had a signature line shoe thats been aroundfor almost 25 years.

also how is someone expressing their opinion being a hater. i guess your one of those people who can't make a valid argument and results to callingeveryone who disagrees with them a hater.

 

[blazinrook]

(the hater statement was not pointed towards you...so disregard it, i'm down with valid arguments)

what was nike before Jordan? they were nothing, jordan didn't even want to sign with them, but they offered a better deal than adidas

what was the globalization before Jordan? nothing iono man, i'm seeing a common factor to these equations and it adds up to 23

sometimes the stars align, they did for gretzkey, they did for jackie

and they certainly did for Jordan....perfect timing for globalization, his brand, but more importantly his skill and drive for the game

you can't name another individual who has had a bigger impact on the game than Michael Jordan

 

[duba169]

so jordan helped a company that rapes and pillages the third world be a success...that means we should retire him number?

Even if you wana say it doesn't matter what he has done for the world, you have to realize that it's very debatable that he was the greatest ever. manyolder heads just don't think he;s the greatest. Theres no doubt gretzky was miles and miles ahead of anybody to ever play that sport.

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

the globalization had started, with the nba getting marketable faces in bird/magic in the nba, that was more the start of the league being put back on the map.compare ratings from the late 70's to the 80's. jordan was one of the main reasons globalization was a successful as it eventually became, but sternsdesire to go global was big as well, the 1992 dream team was real huge globalization wise. overall jordan had a huge impact on the nba becoming big in globalmarkets but it was alot of things that attributed to the nba become huge global wise.

nike was nothing before jordan i agree with that. with jordan they got someone who became the face of the company and made them the popular brand they aretoday but you have to acknowledge that tinkers designs and the marketing beast were huge as well. jordan was considering leaving after the ii's but theiii's changed all that talk and the rest speaks for itself. the commericals, the nice shoe designs and of course jordans great play on the court are allreasons nike became as huge as they became, but i think they were more prepared to market and cater to a superstar player then adidas, converse, reebok ,or anyother big brand at the time would thats why i don't think jordans shoes would have had the same consistent year in year out success and lasting effect onanother brand.

about the gretzky remark, he really didn't have a world wide impact but he put professional hockey on the map. before he came to the league besides intraditional hockey cities like detroit, boston, chicago, and new york, hockey was really only seen as a canadian sport. gretzky made hockey relevant. in termsof what he did on the ice, he didn't break records he demolished them. he destroyed almost every single major record of relevance in hockey. a small marketteam like the edmonton oilers was at one time the most popular team in hockey strictly off of gretzky. when he got traded to the kings, hockey became popularin west coast cities and within a few years of gretzky getting traded to the kings, you see teams in west coast cities like anahiem, san jose, phoenix, and yousee the nhl expanding to beach cities like miami and tampa bay. gretzky and his impact helped the nhl damn near double in teams from 1988-now. when he playedthe nhl had sunday games on prime time tv, he sold out arenas wherever he went, and without a doubt he is the best to have ever played hockey. he is theundisputed best nhl player ever. i'm not the type to get on someone for not liking another sport, everyone likes what they like but alot of peopledon't see the impact gretzky had on the nhl or realize how dominant he was because they don't like hockey.

 

[blazinrook]

We will probably never come to a single agreement on who is the GOAT

and thats fine, because people will constantly have their own opinions

But what is common is that people keep bringing Jordan up in this conversation,

add that to the fact he is a global icon for his brand, his endorsements....

and that to the fact that many of the top players today admire and still want to

continue his legacy of greatness through his brand : melo, paul, durant ....they are top 10 in the League



anyone ever trip that they didn't even bring up the question to ask to retire the jersey numbers throughout the league for Bird, Magic, and all the other

GOAT contenders when they retired?

There is a reason why they are asking to do this for Michael...

 

[got shoes]

If Bill Russell jersey aint retired than Jordan jersey ain't getting retired. It would be nice, but i just don't see Stern retiring #23, before #6.

 

[xblker47]

I think they should retire the # 23

For everyone sayen kobe or lebron over jordan as of right now Jordan over both of them and wait until there careers are over with before you make comparisons

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by eeibaby

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by kdawg

Originally Posted by mst9023

they should retire the number 23, in honor of his airness. he was the greatest player to ever walk on the court and out of respect to what he did for the game they need to do this. and dude saying kobe and lebron are better? Michale Jordan was the best basketball player in what i consider the golden age of basketball. he has played with and against some of the greatest players to ever play, and he made most of them look like fools. He revoloutionized the game and all of us who have seen him play live have tried to copy his every move on the court. the nba needs to recognize him as the greatest and retire his number now and make anyone wearing it change it.

He didn't revolutionize the game - he did things that Dr J and others did before him - sure, at a greater level and he used his determination and great athleticism to do some things differently but it wasn't as groundbreaking as the highlight reels make out.

Thank you!

He did revolutionize in making the game of basketball more popular, if MJ wasn't around NBA wouldn't be as big as it is today



You don't think Russel did that?, you don't think Bob Cousy did that?, Magic Johnson pretty much saved the NBA in the 80's, you don't thinkWilt popularized the game of basketball?


Like I said the lack of knowledge boyond 90's basketball on NT is astonishing, MJ's impact isn't any more or less than and of the other GOATS ofthe decade. He is NOT the Wayne Gretzky or even Jackie Robinson of basketball and retiring his number league wind would be utterly idiotic.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

global revolution already started....?

ain't no one reppin magic or bird over seas

There is a reason why his shoes are the most successful basketball shoes to ever hit the market

MJ was a bigger global icon than Bird or Magic, but you're kidding yourself if you think that Magic/Bird weren't globally known before MJ. During the1992 olympics, MJ was the biggest star, but not by a huge margin. The reason why there was so much hype around that team globally was because of thefoundations Magic and Bird laid, and then MJ took over right around that time.

Part of the reason why MJ became a bigger international icon than Magic/Bird was simply because of the era he played in, the world experienced globalization inthe early 90s more so than in the 80s, and he even played during the early days of the Internets era. Even other stars from the 90s had more global exposurethan the ones from the 80s. Take someone like Penny Hardaway and compare it to someone relatively equal from the 80s, like Dominique Wilkins. In 1995, you hadkids on the playgrounds across Europe and Asia wearing Penny Hardaway jerseys and wearing his shoes, whereas in 1985 you certainly didn't have kids inthese places wearing Dominique jerseys to the same extent.. Despite the fact that almost everyone would agree that Nique was both a better player, as well as amore spectacular player than Penny.

 

[blazinrook]

Granted....select players constantly revolutionize the game

but Mike did so much more than just play the game, he played the world, the market, everything

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by eeibaby

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by kdawg

Originally Posted by mst9023

they should retire the number 23, in honor of his airness. he was the greatest player to ever walk on the court and out of respect to what he did for the game they need to do this. and dude saying kobe and lebron are better? Michale Jordan was the best basketball player in what i consider the golden age of basketball. he has played with and against some of the greatest players to ever play, and he made most of them look like fools. He revoloutionized the game and all of us who have seen him play live have tried to copy his every move on the court. the nba needs to recognize him as the greatest and retire his number now and make anyone wearing it change it.

He didn't revolutionize the game - he did things that Dr J and others did before him - sure, at a greater level and he used his determination and great athleticism to do some things differently but it wasn't as groundbreaking as the highlight reels make out.

Thank you!

He did revolutionize in making the game of basketball more popular, if MJ wasn't around NBA wouldn't be as big as it is today

You don't think Russel did that?, you don't think Bob Cousy did that?, Magic Johnson pretty much saved the NBA in the 80's, you don't think Wilt popularized the game of basketball?


Like I said the lack of knowledge boyond 90's basketball on NT is astonishing, MJ's impact isn't any more or less than and of the other GOATS of the decade. He is NOT the Wayne Gretzky or even Jackie Robinson of basketball and retiring his number league wind would be utterly idiotic.

co-sign. mike did a lot for the game, but the past has just as much to do with now.

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

Granted....select players constantly revolutionize the game

but Mike did so much more than just play the game, he played the world, the market, everything

nvm....

 

[osh kosh bosh]

and people seem to assume that because Michael Jordan was playing during NBA globalization this means that MJ= Globalization like Jordan emitted this viscusfluid from his skin that just magically created globalization, this is a logical fallacy.

Does any one stop to consider that MJ happen to be the most popular star and the face of the league where EVERYONE in EVERY sector or business was experiencingglobalization it was the 90's, you don't think if Wilt was the face of the league during this time and MJ was some guys we herd about from vaguemisrememberings of old timers, tattered box scores and grainy footage of him shooting free throws we wouldn't look at Wilt the way we look at Mike?


It is all cyclical, there will be another GOAT, and another and another.

 

[blazinrook]

ya...nike had a big part...obviously nba as well

but if you can't honestly say Mike wasn't a big factor, if not, "the" factor, i don't know what to tell you


you're argument is the same as Krause's "organizations win championships"

at the end of the day the players play the game and win the chamionships

mike played the game, excelled in every aspect, you can't doubt this.

 

[blazinrook]

its not an assumption that MJ = Globalization, or that he's all-time God perfect human being

but like i said before...sometimes the stars align, where timing is perfect, where that one player stands out for greatness

where he not only exceeded in the physical play but also in the market.... and thats what happened for MJ

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

i think if wilt hadn't lost to russells celtics year in year out in the 1960's he would be looked at in higher regard when it comes to the ever sopopular whos the goat disputes. the celtics always had a better team then wilts teams but some of wilts individual stats are just out of this world crazy.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

its not an assumption that MJ = Globalization, or that he's all-time God perfect human being

but like i said before...sometimes the stars align, where timing is perfect, where that one player stands out for greatness

where he not only exceeded in the physical play but also in the market.... and thats what happened for MJ

but none of that means that he is cut and dry ithout a shadow of a doubt the greatest player to ever play there will be question.


Gretsky destroyed every single point record and the next closest guys on the list are miles and miles, Jackie Robinsone broke the race barrier none of theseare in any way similar to MJ's impact.

 

[blazinrook]

ight iono if you read my previous post but here...

(quote)

We will probably never come to a single agreement on who is the GOAT

and thats fine, because people will constantly have their own opinions

But what is common is that people keep bringing Jordan up in this conversation,

add that to the fact he is a global icon for his brand, his endorsements....

and that to the fact that many of the top players today admire and still want to

continue his legacy of greatness through his brand : melo, paul, durant ....they are top 10 in the League



anyone ever trip that they didn't even bring up the question to ask to retire the jersey numbers throughout the league for Bird, Magic, and all the other

GOAT contenders when they retired?

There is a reason why they are asking to do this for Michael...

(quote)


ya gretzkey played outta his mind, so did Wilt and all the other greats....

but so did Mike...you know his stats, but mike did not stop there, he brought more to the game

his name alone = Greatness, which is why the future of todays game wear's his name

thats why Lebron= "the king" wears his number

thats why Kobe wears 24, to try and 1 up himl......

 

[CP1708]

Stern had as much to do with globalization as MJ did.

The whole point of the 92 olympics. Setting up camps overseas, the marketing that Stern did, and still does to bring players from other countries into theNBA.

Should we retire Stern's name in all the arena's too? Did the stars align for Stern, BlazinRook?