Should the NBA retire the number 23 for Micheal Jordan like the NHL did for Wayne Gretzky?

[shoepacalypse]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by blazinRook

its not an assumption that MJ = Globalization, or that he's all-time God perfect human being

but like i said before...sometimes the stars align, where timing is perfect, where that one player stands out for greatness

where he not only exceeded in the physical play but also in the market.... and thats what happened for MJ

but none of that means that he is cut and dry ithout a shadow of a doubt the greatest player to ever play there will be question.


Gretsky destroyed every single point record and the next closest guys on the list are miles and miles, Jackie Robinsone broke the race barrier none of these are in any way similar to MJ's impact.

By that reasoning the nfl should retire jerry rice number. Doesnt he hold every single recieving record in the nfl(except most touchdowns in a season.) Evenis second in yards gain all time. Thee whole # retiring thing is like hit or miss if they do retire 23 cool if not cool to. At the end of the day every1 knowsthe significance and impact jordan had on the nba and the sport of basketball in general

 

[you big dummy]

Yes his number should be retired league-wide. Players currently wearing #23 can keep it, but no one else can wear it.

 

[blazinrook]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by blazinRook

its not an assumption that MJ = Globalization, or that he's all-time God perfect human being

but like i said before...sometimes the stars align, where timing is perfect, where that one player stands out for greatness

where he not only exceeded in the physical play but also in the market.... and thats what happened for MJ

but none of that means that he is cut and dry ithout a shadow of a doubt the greatest player to ever play there will be question.


Gretsky destroyed every single point record and the next closest guys on the list are miles and miles, Jackie Robinsone broke the race barrier none of these are in any way similar to MJ's impact.

i truly like how you bring up both of the ways greatness is appreciated, because now i ask, even though what Jordan did was different, whycan't he be apprecaited as well

for gretzkey...all out playing, no doubt

for robinson...all out playing and racial boundary

for jordan...all out playing, globalization, his shoes, clothes, brand, his impact on todays players, the idolization the players have for him



why can't the League appreciate jordan for what he has done....

 

[blazinrook]

Originally Posted by shoepacalypse

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by blazinRook

its not an assumption that MJ = Globalization, or that he's all-time God perfect human being

but like i said before...sometimes the stars align, where timing is perfect, where that one player stands out for greatness

where he not only exceeded in the physical play but also in the market.... and thats what happened for MJ

but none of that means that he is cut and dry ithout a shadow of a doubt the greatest player to ever play there will be question.


Gretsky destroyed every single point record and the next closest guys on the list are miles and miles, Jackie Robinsone broke the race barrier none of these are in any way similar to MJ's impact.

By that reasoning the nfl should retire jerry rice number. Doesnt he hold every single recieving record in the nfl(except most touchdowns in a season.) Even is second in yards gain all time. Thee whole # retiring thing is like hit or miss if they do retire 23 cool if not cool to. At the end of the day every1 knows the significance and impact jordan had on the nba and the sport of basketball in general

exactly....every1 knows his significance and impact on the nba and the sport of basketball...i'm not alone after all

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by shoepacalypse

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by blazinRook

its not an assumption that MJ = Globalization, or that he's all-time God perfect human being

but like i said before...sometimes the stars align, where timing is perfect, where that one player stands out for greatness

where he not only exceeded in the physical play but also in the market.... and thats what happened for MJ

but none of that means that he is cut and dry ithout a shadow of a doubt the greatest player to ever play there will be question.


Gretsky destroyed every single point record and the next closest guys on the list are miles and miles, Jackie Robinsone broke the race barrier none of these are in any way similar to MJ's impact.

By that reasoning the nfl should retire jerry rice number. Doesnt he hold every single recieving record in the nfl(except most touchdowns in a season.) Even is second in yards gain all time. Thee whole # retiring thing is like hit or miss if they do retire 23 cool if not cool to. At the end of the day every1 knows the significance and impact jordan had on the nba and the sport of basketball in general

Gretskys record are effectively unbreakable. the person in second place of Gretsky is down by 1000 POINTS, it's NOT the same as Jerry Rice.

 

[carlos tevez]

MJ's #23 should definitely be retired. The problem is, one of the league's top 2 stars is wearing that number.

 

[codex57]

Absolutely not.

You can argue that people other than Jordan were the greatest of all time. Wilt, Russell, etc. Jordan wasn't heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Gretzky was. His list of accomplishments, especially compared to everyone else, is almost unbelievable.

If Jordan avg 50 ppg, 30 rpg, and 20 apg, then we can start comparing Jordan to Gretzky. Since he was nowhere near those numbers, it's not even up fordiscussion. Jordan was to the 90s what Magic/Bird were to the 80s. And then there were those in the 70s, 60s, etc.

 

[blazinrook]

jordan's impact goes beyonds numbers and stats ( which he highly excelled at)

if you can't appreciate that you're whole perspective is whack....you know the rest

 

[blazinrook]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Stern had as much to do with globalization as MJ did.

The whole point of the 92 olympics. Setting up camps overseas, the marketing that Stern did, and still does to bring players from other countries into the NBA.

Should we retire Stern's name in all the arena's too? Did the stars align for Stern, BlazinRook?

no because thats stern's job, to expand the company and the game of basketball...its what he's expected to do

jordan is expected to perform great, which he did, but also expanded basketball, and you ca add all the extra curricular impacts he had on the game, it sumsup to = GOAT

any other questions CP1708?

(i Hope CP= don't stand for Chris Paul) cuz if it does....

 

[CP1708]

blazinRook wrote:

---

Originally Posted by CP1708

Stern had as much to do with globalization as MJ did.

The whole point of the 92 olympics. Setting up camps overseas, the marketing that Stern did, and still does to bring players from other countries into the NBA.

Should we retire Stern's name in all the arena's too? Did the stars align for Stern, BlazinRook?

no because thats stern's job, to expand the company and the game of basketball...its what he's expected to do

jordan is expected to perform great, which he did, but also expanded basketball, and you ca add all the extra curricular impacts he had on the game, it sums up to = GOAT

any other questions CP1708?

(i Hope CP= don't stand for Chris Paul) cuz if it does....




lol, yeah, A Laker fan picked his SN after Chris Paul ten thousand posts ago.

Good deductive reasoning skills ya got there.

People have been trying to tell you, but you aren't listening to them, but the game was ALREADY being expanded BEFORE Jordan. He just came at a time thatpushed it out to a new higher level. But he wasn't SOLELY responsible for it.

Who did Kobe grow up watching as a kid in Italy? What tapes did he have his grandmother send him? Lakers/Celtics. Why? Bird and Magic. Think Kobe was theonly kid in all of Italy watchin them tapes? As said before, the games were tape delayed back then overseas, once Bird and Magic came along, they startedshowing games LIVE. AND THEN, Mike came along. If not for Bird and Magic, people woulda been watchin Mike on tape delay. Get it? Magic and Bird opened thedoor. Then Mike was able to capitalize. And the rest is history.

 

[three6mafia2007]

No. I'm not in favor of any sport retiring a number throughout the whole league

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

Originally Posted by CP1708

blazinRook wrote:

---

Originally Posted by CP1708

Stern had as much to do with globalization as MJ did.

The whole point of the 92 olympics. Setting up camps overseas, the marketing that Stern did, and still does to bring players from other countries into the NBA.

Should we retire Stern's name in all the arena's too? Did the stars align for Stern, BlazinRook?

no because thats stern's job, to expand the company and the game of basketball...its what he's expected to do

jordan is expected to perform great, which he did, but also expanded basketball, and you ca add all the extra curricular impacts he had on the game, it sums up to = GOAT

any other questions CP1708?

(i Hope CP= don't stand for Chris Paul) cuz if it does....

lol, yeah, A Laker fan picked his SN after Chris Paul ten thousand posts ago.

Good deductive reasoning skills ya got there.

People have been trying to tell you, but you aren't listening to them, but the game was ALREADY being expanded BEFORE Jordan. He just came at a time that pushed it out to a new higher level. But he wasn't SOLELY responsible for it.

Who did Kobe grow up watching as a kid in Italy? What tapes did he have his grandmother send him? Lakers/Celtics. Why? Bird and Magic. Think Kobe was the only kid in all of Italy watchin them tapes? As said before, the games were tape delayed back then overseas, once Bird and Magic came along, they started showing games LIVE. AND THEN, Mike came along. If not for Bird and Magic, people woulda been watchin Mike on tape delay. Get it? Magic and Bird opened the door. Then Mike was able to capitalize. And the rest is history.



true, but kobe was watching mike d'antoni that was his idol when d'antoni played in italy

 

[solefulone]

What Jordan has done can be accomplished again. He set some lofty goals, but they can be matched. What has he done that no one else will ever accomplish?Please don't get me wrong, he is head and shoulders above anyone RIGHT NOW! That can change. When he came into the league he wasn't expected to be thebest. When you exponentially exceed expectations like he did, his legend grows. With Lebron he came in and was expected to be great. So if he is extremelysuccessful, it will not equal MJ's impact, because Lebron was expected to be that good. MJ's stats are impressive, but they can be duplicated.

Let's keep this in perspective though as well.

Jackie Robinson's number was retired 50 years after he broke the color barrier. But what he did by breaking the color barrier and his play impacted howblack folk were viewed all over the globe.

Jackie Robinson impacted our nation and the world. Wayne Gretsky impacted the his game. Michael Jordan impacted the game and economy.

 

[blazinrook]

hey thats cool that Kobe = the rest of the world

but like i said before...mike capitalized on everything, due to timing, due to his greatness of play....stars aligned

stars align for the greats....gretzky, robinson

if robinson wasn't born then another person would have crossed the barrier,

but he was born, and he was great, therefore he is legend

if jordan wasn't born then another person would have capitilized

but he was born, he was phenominal as a player, and he capitilized, to the fullest, point blank...he's legend

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

hey thats cool that Kobe = the rest of the world

but like i said before...mike capitalized on everything, due to timing, due to his greatness of play....stars aligned

stars align for the greats....gretzky, robinson

if robinson wasn't born then another person would have crossed the barrier,

but he was born, and he was great, therefore he is legend

if jordan wasn't born then another person would have capitilized

but he was born, he was phenominal as a player, and he capitilized, to the fullest, point blank

Not one word of this post made a damn bit of sense.

If I was born MJ, I would be great too.

If you were born Bill Clinton, you woulda been president once.

Kobe was born Lebron, who would be better?

All that stuff is the same. Mike came in after others showed him the way. Then he excelled. You don't get your jersey retired by a whole league just cuzof that. What did Mike do better in a basketball sense better then Kareem did? Because Mike sold some shoes? He ain't make the shoes. He just had hisname on them.

And for the record, I don't mean to discredit what MJ did for the game or any of that. I just dont get this kids logic is all. I want to make that clearto everybody.

 

[blazinrook]

read this then and hopefully i can Make this clear....

If jackie robinson was not born

another African American baseball player would have stepped to the plate and became the icon recognized as the player who was great but who also "crossedthe racial barrier"

but jackie robinson was born, and because he achieved all of it he is deemed as a legend. which we respect and retired his number


If gretzkey was not born

another hockey player would have taken those records etc

but he was born and he has those records and we respect and retired his number


if jordan was not born

another basketball player would be considered GOAT

but jordan was born, he came in and dominated every aspect of the game, he helped globalize the game, he created a brand that everyone sees as greatness, he isan idol to all the future players today: kobe, lebron, CP3, Melo, Durant..........he did all of these achievements that takes too long too type and if your toodense of an LA fan to realize this then step off

(i believe subconsciously you are disgusted of the attention and glory MJ receives because you are an LA fan)

 

[jsindaa]

This thread is blatant proof 85% of fans lack the ability to form logical opinions on their own merit.

 

[tha real a2thamos]

blazinRook wrote:

---

read this then and hopefully i can Make this clear....

If jackie robinson was not born

another African American baseball player would have stepped to the plate and became the icon recognized as the player who was great but who also "crossed the racial barrier"

but jackie robinson was born, and because he achieved all of it he is deemed as a legend. which we respect and retired his number


If gretzkey was not born

another hockey player would have taken those records etc

but he was born and he has those records and we respect and retired his number


if jordan was not born

another basketball player would be considered GOAT

but jordan was born, he came in and dominated every aspect of the game, he helped globalize the game, he created a brand that everyone sees as greatness, he is an idol to all the future players today: kobe, lebron, CP3, Melo, Durant..........he did all of these achievements that takes too long too type and if your too dense of an LA fan to realize this then step off

(i believe subconsciously you are disgusted of the attention and glory MJ receives because you are an LA fan)

 

[codex57]

I sure hope blazinrook isn't representative of the intellectual level of kids today. If so, we're effing screwed.

No one is denying Jordan wasn't great. No one is denying the effects he had on basketball beyond his stats. However, the question is if he should have hisjersey # retired league wide like Gretzky. So, you gotta compare him to Gretzky.

Did Jordan expand his sport like Gretzky? Sure. But so did Magic/Bird, Dr. J., etc. Each decade of basketball seems to have one or two players who grew thesport a lot. Yes, MJ did it, but so did many players before him. Like you said, he just took the next step. Why should he get his # retired but not all thegreat players before him? What makes him more special then them? Nothing here. Need to look elsewhere.

Ok, back to Gretzky. Aside from growing the sport, what else is important? Oh yeah, what he did on the field of play. Let's look at stats. Was Jordangreat? Sure. But so were a bunch of other stars. The fact that you can make a legitimate argument for players other than Jordan to be the GOAT, such asRussell, Wilt, Oscar, etc shows that Jordan isn't heads and shoulders above everyone. He was great, but no one denies that. He just wasn't clearlygreater than everyone else.

Gretzky was. I mentioned this somewhere, but if Jordan had averaged something like 50 ppg, 30 rpg, and 30 apg, then maybe we could start comparing him toGretzky. #s might even have to be higher than those. Since he's not anywhere even close, is why he's no Gretzky.

Rice's problem has more to do with his sport. Yeah, he was the greatest receiver ever, but football has so many defined yet equally important positionswith their own specific stats that Rice can't transcend the whole sport. Especially not when we seem to consider quarterbacks to be the most importantposition. Plus, he never single handedly elevated football the way Gretzky and Jordan did. He's too tied to Montana, like Stockton and Malone are tiedtogether.

 

[shoepacalypse]

Originally Posted by got shoes

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

---

Originally Posted by eeibaby

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

---

kdawg wrote:

---

mst9023 wrote:

---

they should retire the number 23, in honor of his airness. he was the greatest player to ever walk on the court and out of respect to what he did for the game they need to do this. and dude saying kobe and lebron are better? Michale Jordan was the best basketball player in what i consider the golden age of basketball. he has played with and against some of the greatest players to ever play, and he made most of them look like fools. He revoloutionized the game and all of us who have seen him play live have tried to copy his every move on the court. the nba needs to recognize him as the greatest and retire his number now and make anyone wearing it change it.

He didn't revolutionize the game - he did things that Dr J and others did before him - sure, at a greater level and he used his determination and great athleticism to do some things differently but it wasn't as groundbreaking as the highlight reels make out.

Thank you!



He did revolutionize in making the game of basketball more popular, if MJ wasn't around NBA wouldn't be as big as it is today



You don't think Russel did that?, you don't think Bob Cousy did that?, Magic Johnson pretty much saved the NBA in the 80's, you don't think Wilt popularized the game of basketball?


Like I said the lack of knowledge boyond 90's basketball on NT is astonishing, MJ's impact isn't any more or less than and of the other GOATS of the decade. He is NOT the Wayne Gretzky or even Jackie Robinson of basketball and retiring his number league wind would be utterly idiotic.

co-sign. mike did a lot for the game, but the past has just as much to do with now.



Jackie didnt revolutionize the sport by his race he broke barriers and open the door for other ethnic groups to play. As good as he was as a player no onespeaks of his game play and how his game changed the game. He will forever be seen 1st s the 1st black mlb player. Jordan is more popular then gretzky simplebecause well he is. If we showed a picture of jordan and gretzky its no doubt he will be more recognized then gretzky. As far as pure dominance of a sport istill say that would be jerry rice. He still holds the most records in nfl history as well as in the guiness world book of records if u wanna go by stats. Buthis impact extends far more then his sport moreso then any other athlete ever. most ppl dont know that nike is a 7 billion dollar company 2.7 of the 7 billions off the jordan brand. Um how many different makes models of shoes have nike made. Like i said all u have 2 do is look at the numbers and money generated byjordan likeness. and to the guy who commented on nike ethics um that can be said for about the majority of large corporate conglomerates. Are we to discreditwalmart home depot etc..

 

[codex57]

What does Nike have to do with retiring a jersey leaguewide in the NBA?

Rice is a better comparison statwise than Jordan. But Rice didn't have the impact on the sport that Jordan and Gretzky did. He just owns a lot of stats,and even then, he's not ALL over the NFL record book simply cuz there are too many categories/positions.

You can't play popularity games in this argument. Cuz soccor/football would CRUSH basketball/hockey. A big part of that is simply logistics. What do youneed to play soccer? A ball. With basketball, you need a ball and a hoop. Little tougher to get access. Especially if you need the ground to be flat,unlike soccer which can be played on all sorts of field conditions. Hockey needs, ice, skates, sticks, and a puck at the very minimum. Basic requirements aremuch more stringent, which is why hockey can never be as globally popular as basketball, let alone soccer.

The person who looks like he has the best chance of achieving "Gretzky" status in his sport is Tiger Woods. That's if his career keepprogressing like it has the a few more years in order to own the record books as completely as Gretzky. He's already increased golf's popularitydramatically, he's not the first non-white to play, but he's broken color barriers, etc. Of course, in golf, there's no "jersey" toretire league wide.

 

[DYNAMICS]

Lebron just said on 106 the NBA should retire MJ's Number.

 

[Truth]

retire the # 23 & change the NBA logo to the Jumpman

 

[black entourage inc]

Originally Posted by codex57

Absolutely not.

You can argue that people other than Jordan were the greatest of all time. Wilt, Russell, etc. Jordan wasn't heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Gretzky was. His list of accomplishments, especially compared to everyone else, is almost unbelievable.

If Jordan avg 50 ppg, 30 rpg, and 20 apg, then we can start comparing Jordan to Gretzky. Since he was nowhere near those numbers, it's not even up for discussion. Jordan was to the 90s what Magic/Bird were to the 80s. And then there were those in the 70s, 60s, etc.

This here should end all discussion

It's not just a fan vote...Among the NHL no one would dispute Gretzky's number being retired. But in the NBA, you have people who have accomplishedmore and won just as much as Jordan has, and theirs no mention to retire their numbers league wide. Yes Jordan is arguably the NBA's biggest star ever, butu can name a handful of players who have the accomplishments to stand up there with Jordan

Gretzky has none. At all

 

[Deleted member 38182]

I dunno if this has been brought up or not....... but has there been any other sports Star, let alone celebrity, that is bigger than Michael Jordan?
Would this prove relevant for the argument to retire the 23 league wide?