(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[rawex5]

Yeah, I think she will be a treacherous *****.

 

[denni5themenace]

i want to watch that ep with my non book reading friends. their reactions are going to be priceless

 

[proshares]

SpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpaceSpace

I just hope the Blackfish survives

The direction where they're taking Talisa really makes me anxious to read the last two books and see how it compares.

 

[nako xl]

i dunno...

i mean...

the way they've been building her character, she comes off like she'll betray him.  nothing she does gives off those vibes except for those hilariously shady high valyrian letters she keeps writing.  they just scream "betraying you to tywin."

but at the same time everything about her acting and behavior seems sincere.  i think the letters are being thrown in there to **** with us the book readers.  it's too obvious of a red herring.

why have her there liek that, when they spent the last two episodes making roose and his goons out to be the obvious traitorous party.  she prob escapes and or gets murked too.

 

[T0INE]

Man that video theory about Talisa being apart of the RW I watched a while back and these suggestive scenes with her on the show really has me questioning her motives.

Episode 9 can't get here soon enough.

I wonder if the show will put Grey Wind's head on Robb's body as apart of the massacre like GRRM did in ASOS.

Imagine that visual.

 

[spidermachine916]

When Jaime told Lord Bolton to send Rob Stark "his regards."

i was like that too but i don't think he meant it like "that"...
i don't think jamie knows about the RW
and i'm really not like how Jeyne is going with Rob... at least in the tv version we get closure from her POV.

 

[nako xl]

The vibe i got is that Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding prior to its happening. (Am I mistaken?)

But that's also why Roose gave him that look when he said it.  Sort of a "Give him your regards?  I most certainly will.  You have no idea."

 

[rexanglorum]

Jaime played no role in the Red Wedding. When he said to send Robb Stark his "regards," I feel like it was half boast (look at me know I am a free man on the way to the Capital) and half respect (a greeting from one warrior to another).

When Roose Bolton did what he did, he was trying to mention the Lannisters so that it would be that much harder for the Lannisters to disavow the RW. By binding the Freys, Boltons and Lannisters together, he can put himself in a position to be able to call upon Frey and Lannister help as he under takes to become the warden of the North in practice.

As it happened, Roose does get 2,000 Freys to help him to subdue the rest of the North but should Stannis, Manderly, The Mormonts, the pro-Stark Umbers, The newly partisan Night's Watch or the Hill Clans start to gain the upper hand, Roose's fall would endanger Lannister prestige.

If Roose kept quiet when he killed Robb at the Twins, Tywin or Kevan or Devan or Cersei or what ever Lannister is in charge might just wash his or her hands of Roose and let Winter and distance allow them to forget about the North and let the Iron Thrones focus entirely on The Vale, The Iron Isles, The Dorne, Aegon, The Faith and the BWOB.

 

[tdogg2k]

plus don't forget it was always made clear jaime isn't the smartest when it comes to war


with that said I doubt he knew or even thought about a betrayal so to say...
plus did this scene even happen in the book.
I read them a year ago. so now all the stories are blending and fading out in my head...


as far as talisa... they probably will have her leaving...don't forget there were mad people at that wedding. lined up at the gates...what I tjink the show may do that the book didn't fully go into. is having arya be there and see her mom and rob get murdered from a distance. like she's about to pop in there and be like .. moooo-noooooooooo.
and have the hound save her.
that's just my guess and kinda how I feel it was in the book just a bit further

 

[shogun]

I saw this on another forum. I think it actually would be a GREAT TV twist.

I think the characters of Jeyne and Jeyne’s mom have been combined. Talisa is feeding information to Tywin. She will be the one to slit Cat’s throat. And then she will be hanged by Lady Stoneheart. Calling it now

I don't even remember much about Jeyne's mom. The moment I saw that piece of paper on Tywin's desk that looked similar to the paper that Talisa writes on automatically made me think she was in cahoots with him. It seemed like the camera always focused on it for a second or two. Was she pregnant in the books? I can't remember that either.

I was wondering if Qyburn had the ability to give Jaime a new hand? Jaime jokingly said it on the show. If he can make a zombie knight then a new hand might be possible. Jaime should just make a sword attachment to his arm with the missing hand. Similar to the guy on The Walking Dead. HIm trying to get decent with his left hand seems like it'll take a long time.

 

[ssjjfar]

I don't even remember much about Jeyne's mom. The moment I saw that piece of paper on Tywin's desk that looked similar to the paper that Talisa writes on automatically made me think she was in cahoots with him. It seemed like the camera always focused on it for a second or two. Was she pregnant in the books? I can't remember that either.

Don't think she got pregnant in books. She was taking what were suppose to be fertility potion from her mother to try and get pregnant, but in reality they were anti-fertility potions to prevent her from getting pregnant.

 

[shogun]

^
Did not know that. Thanks for the info. Dumb Robb. Should've just married Walder's daughter and hoped she was decent looking .

 

[nako xl]

I don't even remember much about Jeyne's mom. The moment I saw that piece of paper on Tywin's desk that looked similar to the paper that Talisa writes on automatically made me think she was in cahoots with him. It seemed like the camera always focused on it for a second or two. Was she pregnant in the books? I can't remember that either.

Don't think she got pregnant in books. She was taking what were suppose to be fertility potion from her mother to try and get pregnant, but in reality they were anti-fertility potions to prevent her from getting pregnant.

yadda yadda nt preview blah blah

but

butttt.. a lot of readers/fans theorize that jeyne escaped with the blackfish and was in fact pregnant with robbs child.  and that the "jeyne" they found wasn't her.

 

[tdogg2k]

space
space

that's why they kept her alive. cuz they don't know if its a boy or girl in her belly

 

[hybridsoldier23]

I don't even remember much about Jeyne's mom. The moment I saw that piece of paper on Tywin's desk that looked similar to the paper that Talisa writes on automatically made me think she was in cahoots with him. It seemed like the camera always focused on it for a second or two. Was she pregnant in the books? I can't remember that either.

Don't think she got pregnant in books. She was taking what were suppose to be fertility potion from her mother to try and get pregnant, but in reality they were anti-fertility potions to prevent her from getting pregnant.

yadda yadda nt preview blah blah


but


butttt.. a lot of readers/fans theorize that jeyne escaped with the blackfish and was in fact pregnant with robbs child.  and that the "jeyne" they found wasn't her.

Correct there's a large contingency of book readers that think that there are two jeyne's based off of differing descriptions from Cat and Jaime. Martin won't talk about it so I'm assuming there's something to the theory.

So she may be preggers in the books. I feel the show has handled the pregnancy issue a lot better than the books. At least we have a character definitively saying "I'm carrying the heir to the north" even if she could turn out to be an unreliable narrator.

In contrast I hope she's full of ****, dies, or loses the baby because I want the conversation about Robb making Jon his heir with Cat to happen.

 

[tdogg2k]

and grrm wrote last ep didn't he?

 

[ssjjfar]

^ yes

 

[hybridsoldier23]

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I just realized that there's no way Robb will make Jon his heir because in 2 episodes he's going to be dead and talisa won't die or lose the baby next episode.

That means Jon's whole heir to winterfell thing will only come from stannis.

It's a shame because the entire time when he was debating internally about accepting the offer from stannis he was already a lock to be legitimized as a stark and heir to winterfell. I guess it makes a more weighty decision for the show. But I always loved that Robb told Cat to **** off and that Jon was his brother.

 

[tdogg2k]

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u have to remember the belief is sansa is dead... and their is a faux Arya.
jon still has no claim if faux arya is to be believed

 

[proshares]

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Hybrid, did they ever make it clear that it was Jon who Robb named? I know it was pretty obvious from how he interacted with Catelyn.

Tdogg, I don't know how they'd go with that line. The King in the North names a specific heir off the assumption that both his true brothers are dead as well as Arya and didn't want Sansa/Tyrion's son to be named heir. They'd come before Sansa and Arya if Davos finds Rickon or if Bran ever wargs his *** south. But if it's true that he planned to legitimize jon, they he would jump to the front of the line right? Unless Stannis/whoever wins the throne decided not to honor that pact. I THINK it's Maege Mormont who has his letter when Robb sent them to Howland Reed.

 

[hybridsoldier23]

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Hybrid, did they ever make it clear that it was Jon who Robb named? I know it was pretty obvious from how he interacted with Catelyn.

Tdogg, I don't know how they'd go with that line. The King in the North names a specific heir off the assumption that both his true brothers are dead as well as Arya and didn't want Sansa/Tyrion's son to be named heir. They'd come before Sansa and Arya if Davos finds Rickon or if Bran ever wargs his *** south. But if it's true that he planned to legitimize jon, they he would jump to the front of the line right? Unless Stannis/whoever wins the throne decided not to honor that pact. I THINK it's Maege Mormont who has his letter when Robb sent them to Howland Reed.

I thought they made it pretty clear that the only way he could be an heir would be to be legitimized and that pissed Cat off even more.

The issue with Sansa is that since Martin is basing this off of Medieval practices as long as there's a son alive the throne passes to the oldest living son in the parentage. If Jon was legitimized that would make him the heir regardless of Bran, Rickon, fake Arya, and Sansa.

Now the kicker to all this is two-fold. Did Robb put a clause in there that Jon is the heir if he has no true-born son? As far as I'm concerned he could have still thought Jeyene was still possibly preggers, and in the future with possibility of fake Jeyene that there could be a fake heir.
The second part of this is that Robb declared this as "King in the North". Well that doesn't mean **** if no one recognizes him as King in the North or a King at all. If that's the case then no one has claim to Winterfell except whoever takes it by force.

Now if you take Robb and Jon out of the equation Bran would be the "true" heir because he's legitimately Ned's oldest living son. We all know that Jon isn't Ned's kid I don't know if Bran could even make proof of the claim because everyone thinks he's dead. I guess he is crippled...

Oh, and let's not forgot that Roose has planned to have fake Arya married to Ramsay so the Bolton's can be the heirs to Winterfell.

The whole thing is a big bowl of ****. I'm really interested to see how this shakes out.

 

[tdogg2k]

kalalalalalalalalallaalallaa
lalalalalalalalala

yoi forget though. it wouldn't matter what robb does. since jon is part of nights watch.

that's as good as kingsguard he can't hold any titles. he would be an oath breaker if he left the crows. which is punishable by death.

it does make most since whoever tkaes over winterfell owns winter fell.

 

[hybridsoldier23]

kalalalalalalalalallaalallaa
lalalalalalalalala

yoi forget though. it wouldn't matter what robb does. since jon is part of nights watch.

that's as good as kingsguard he can't hold any titles. he would be an oath breaker if he left the crows. which is punishable by death.

it does make most since whoever tkaes over winterfell owns winter fell.

True, but here's how the exchange goes down, Stannis believes he can make it happen since he's "King of the 7 Kingdoms" and as everyone says "The King can do as he likes"

He would make me Lord of Winterfell. The wind was gusting, and Jon felt so light-
headed he was half afraid it would blow him off the Wall. “Your Grace,” he said, “you
forget. I am a Snow, not a Stark.”

“It’s you who are forgetting,” King Stannis replied.
Melisandre put a warm hand on Jon’s arm. “A king can remove the taint of bastardy with
a stroke, Lord Snow.”

Lord Snow. Ser Alliser Thorne had named him that, to mock his bastard birth. Many of
his brothers had taken to using it as well, some with affection, others to wound. But
suddenly it had a different sound to it in Jon’s ears. It sounded . . . real. “Yes,” he said,
hesitantly, “kings have legitimized bastards before, but . . . I am still a brother of the
Night’s Watch. I knelt before a heart tree and swore to hold no lands and father no
children.”

“Jon.” Melisandre was so close he could feel the warmth of her breath. “R’hllor is the
only true god. A vow sworn to a tree has no more power than one sworn to your shoes.
Open your heart and let the light of the Lord come in. Burn these weirwoods, and accept
Winterfell as a gift of the Lord of Light.”only true god. A vow sworn to a tree has no more power than one sworn to your shoes.
Open your heart and let the light of the Lord come in. Burn these weirwoods, and accept
Winterfell as a gift of the Lord of Light.”

All he had to do was say the word, and he would be Jon Stark, and nevermore a Snow.
All he had to do was pledge this king his fealty, and Winterfell was his. All he had to do . . .

. . . was forswear his vows again.

And this time it would not be a ruse. To claim his father’s castle, he must turn against his father’s gods.

 

[tdogg2k]

so I am wondering now........... ........................
is this another way of telling us that Jon is not neds kid for sure.

I mean I know we all know think this already. ..

but why has melisandre took such a liking to him


new theory....what if he's roberts son with neds sister. ned knowing this and not robert he took him from robert knowing how he is....and he's still stark blood and kings blood.

melisandre has been right in feeling out for kings blood and people of high worth so far

 

[hybridsoldier23]

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I have a few friends who entertain that possibility but it makes 0 sense for me because of Ned's reactions in Book 1 every time Robert talks **** on the Targs.

Chronologically Robert would have had to have raped Lyanna at the tourney before Rhygar "abducted" her. At that point Jon would have been older than Robb. Not saying that it's not possible but it's been said in the series that Robb was conceived on Ned and Cat's wedding night which is well after the tourney where Robert and Lyanna were in the same place. And throughout the series Robb has been said to be older than Jon.

I just don't see why if Jon is Robert's child why Ned would keep it from him.

Jon's has powerful blood regardless. Mel sees whatever she sees for him and obviously knows he a valuable asset to her/Stannis. It's possible (i don't believe it) that Jon may be "The Prince Who Was Promised". Mel sees a lot of stuff and what she sees does come to pass. However, she usually misinterprets it initially and we find out she saw something out of context. When Mel looks into her fires for Azor Ahai, she sees only things to do with Jon or snow, which he thinks must just be ash but she sees a possible connection to Jon.