The 2014-2015 NBA Season Thread. Lock It Up Please: The Golden State Warriors Are The Champions

[clyde the glide]

per doesn';t tell you about role on the team, wright is a role where only catches lobs while surrounded by 3 point shooters, thus he has an insanely high fg% . all per is telling you is that he compiles box score stats really efficiently which is true. but you as a human have to factor in coaching/context/role/shceme/roster construction. ect ect

i know which is why i take these advanced stats with a grain of salt.  there are efficient players of all roles that play different amounts of minutes.

wright still isn't an outlier by the stats definition

 

[Lovetohate3000]

^^..so true ny mavurs...bunch of nerds arguing basketball with they calculators...

 

[mister friendly]

Here in the real world, Chris Paul won't be considered a top 5 All time point guard til he helps guide his team deep into playoffs or if he has such longevity with his production that you can't discredit him

 

[Deleted member 37467]

My, what great points you have! You've completely changed my mind.

CP3 isn't a Top 5 PG after all, wow.

Hopefully he's able to carry a mediocre Clippers team to the WCF this season so he's then allowed to be in consideration for Top 5 PG's.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

So let me get this straight, Brandon wright is a top 10 player?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

i know which is why i take these advanced stats with a grain of salt.  there are efficient players of all roles that play different amounts of minutes.

wright still isn't an outlier by the stats definition

everyone does, no one takes accurate down to the decimal points, I am intimate familiar with what the exact short commings and blind spots are in PER, but ultimately it is more effective measure than using "double doubles" like some other people in this thread.

If you are having a conversation about Paul vs Wall...

"Hey I think Wall is better than Paul"

"no he isn't Paul is more efficient his PER is higher!"

the response to this shouldn't be well "PER is dumb and you are dumb"

the response should be "per underrates Walls defense or Wall is in a more difficult conference or wall can gaurd multiple positions ect ect "

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So let me get this straight, Brandon wright is a top 10 player?

I give up.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

So let me get this straight, Brandon wright is a top 10 player?

No,

 

[JD617]

This thread

 

[lawdog1]

Here in the real world, Chris Paul won't be considered a top 5 All time point guard til he helps guide his team deep into playoffs or if he has such longevity with his production that you can't discredit him

But you can call Wall a top 5 pg when he's only been to the playoffs once and is only now producing consistently at the same level as Paul? I'm confused.

 

[JD617]

Oh so now GSW is the best defensive team..... Lmfao.

They've been the best defensive team so far this season, yes, and they had a top 5 defense last year too. How the hell is that hard to believe?

 

[dland24]

Here in the real world, Chris Paul won't be considered a top 5 All time point guard til he helps guide his team deep into playoffs or if he has such longevity with his production that you can't discredit him

But you can call Wall a top 5 pg when he's only been to the playoffs once and is only now producing consistently at the same level as Paul? I'm confused.

A top 5 point guard of all time is different than top 5 point guard currently, and do have and should have different standards.

 

[lawdog1]

A top 5 point guard of all time is different than top 5 point guard currently, and do have and should have different standards.

But the whole debate about PER came up because someone is saying Wall is better than Paul now.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

PER is a meh metric. VORP and wins produced tell you more.

 

[mister friendly]

Who said I was trying to change your mindset?

From what I've seen that's pointless endeavor dudes have straight up outfacted, out rebuttaled you time after time

After which you've have constantly pulled BS excuses

 

[Deleted member 37467]

Who said I was trying to change your mindset?

From what I've seen that's pointless endeavor dudes have straight up outfacted, out rebuttaled you time after time

After which you've have constantly pulled BS excuses

Yea, no.

Just because you happen to side w/ people claiming that he isn't Top 5 doesn't mean they "outfacted" me.

NT doesn't like facts, most of you are still basing your rankings off of eye tests and "averages".

PER is a meh metric. VORP and wins produced tell you more.

2 more metrics that tell us CP3 is Top 5 all time,

 

[pmatic]

You guys suck at combining context and reasoning with advanced stats.

 

[bowb4me]

When I compare Wall vs Paul I'm only talking this season through 25 games. Why doesn't anyone get this? Wall is a legit MVP canidate so far. He leads all players in double doubles. Why is it slander or crazy to say Paul isn't through 25 games playing better than a potential MVP?

That's how I rationalize it. Paul isn't playing at a MVP clip IMO. I also factor wins/loses into it and others don't. I account for conference as well. That's why Curry, Harden and Gasol were my MVPs.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Dame has a higher VORP than Paul bow to da gawd

 

[Deleted member 37467]

When I compare Wall vs Paul I'm only talking this season through 25 games. Why doesn't anyone get this? Wall is a legit MVP canidate so far. He leads all players in double doubles. Why is it slander or crazy to say Paul isn't through 25 games playing better than a potential MVP?

That's how I rationalize it. Paul isn't playing at a MVP clip IMO. I also factor wins/loses into it and others don't. I account for conference as well. That's why Curry, Harden and Gasol were my MVPs.

It's not.

You could make a case for him being better than CP3 right now, sure.

But it seems like you think he's CLEARLY better, when he isn't.

CP3 is better offensively and Wall is the better/more versatile defender.

 

[mister friendly]

Nah I'm not just talking about Chris Paul

You say other questionable things then have no rebuttal when people have strong posts full of facts

CP1708 in the Kobe thread

Your argument that Hakeem or Robinson was best center of all time

Those are just recent ones I remember

 

[dacomeup]

You guys suck at combining context and reasoning with advanced stats.

Yea, this conversation just stinks

 

[Maximus Meridius]

You guys suck at combining context and reasoning with advanced stats.

Same ol NBA Thread.

 

[dman14]

as bad as the lakers played, they been in a lot of gms as well and just couldnt close them out.
easily a 12 win team right now if the ball bounced their way, but it hasnt.

 

[bowb4me]

It's not.

You could make a case for him being better than CP3 right now, sure.

But it seems like you think he's CLEARLY better, when he isn't.

CP3 is better offensively and Wall is the better/more versatile defender.

I think it is clear over the last 2 weeks. EC player of the week, on a 6 game win streak currently the longest in the L, set a career high with 17 AST, 9 days later tied that high with 17 more and beat Paul head up. It just so happens that was Paul's worse game of the season with a high 6 TOs. If he hasn't seperated himself with that nothing will.