The 2014-2015 NBA Season Thread. Lock It Up Please: The Golden State Warriors Are The Champions

[Chester McFloppy]

there are a lot of stats you can throw around, numbers you can bring up. you can spend hours arguing over what the ideal ratio between assists to points is for a pg or if high rebounding numbers means anything. westbrooks role is totally different than chris pauls role on the basketball court and you can argue about who's style of play is the "right way to play basketball". at the end of the day every basketball player that has ever suited up to play in a competitive basketball has one goal, to win basketball games. some players have a larger impact on the outcome than others. there's a reason why every basketball player in your top 10 all time has multiple rings, when you are that good you are going to lead your team to greatness. 

a lot of players that are never considered top 5 all time pgs have done a lot more with a lot less. with chris paul its ALWAYS "need better teammates" "need better coach" "need better bench" "if only he was 6'4" "hes doing all he can". 

all time greats dont get excuses, they get the job done and chris paul falls short (ba bum chhh) year after year.

tired of this winning doesnt matter participation medal attitude people have when talking about chris paul. maybe one of you guys can engrave his PER and career win share numbers on a ring and give it to him after he retires ringless

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[a-friend]

bruh monta have it all. rondo need to not shoot ever and just toss dimes. mavs will be pretty tight.

That's what it is. Rondo could never take another shot all year, or take 7 a game and miss them all....still top 5 "PG".

I don't have to have a PG that scores. I can score. Give me Rondo I will take any twosome in here and dominate.

 

[011781]

 

[a-friend]

Sea Manup. Go find me a top 5 list in any category. PGs, SGS, PFs, best 5 players ever, best 10 players ever, any site, any source. 

I guarantee you there will be a top player in every category without a Ring.

I don't guarantee, I don't know,I want to know  though.and I don't want to do the legwork

 

[sea manup]

Yall want, kd, dwight,cp3, lebron etc to get it done every year, obviously they all cant win it, its unfair for that to stop them from being mentioned with the greats

lebron has two championships and now he's in the top 10 all time discussion. before winning his two rings it was a dumb argument to bring up

thats the thing, it is REALLY hard to win a championship. thats why only the greatest players win multiple. 

jordan was by far the greatest player in the 90s, it showed because he won championships

he steps out for a bit and the second greatest player of the 90s, hakeem wins a couple

the 80s the two greatest players magic and larry traded championships from year to year

after jordan retired in the 90s, shaq who was considered the greatest player in the world at the time wins 3

duncan wins a few here and there showing the world how great he is, ends up with 5. thats what puts him in the top 10 all time list, his championships

dirk legacy would not be what it is today if he never won a championship, its the greatest moment of his long storied career

lebron was the greatest player in the world and his greatness was on full display in miami's two titles

like it or not, legends are defined by the championships they win. for the b-grade legends that are not good enough to win championships people start throwing all sorts of excuses and stats around to make up for the player not being able to get it done come playoff time when the actual all time greats have flourished. 

 

[sea manup]

 
Sea Manup. Go find me a top 5 list in any category. PGs, SGS, PFs, best 5 players ever, best 10 players ever, any site, any source. 

I guarantee you there will be a top player in every category without a Ring.

I don't guarantee, I don't know,I want to know  though.and I don't want to do the legwork

who are your top 10 all time nba players?

mine in no order:

kareem (6)

mj (6)

duncan (5)

bird (3)

kobe (5)

russell (11)

magic (5)

wilt (2)

leboo (2)

shaq (4)

guys who just missed my list

big o (1)

hakeem (2)

jerry west (1)

basically you couldnt even be hired as the waiter for a top 10 all time dinner party if you dont have a ring

 

[sea manup]

semi related but any website that uses a slideshow as the format for a top 10 list can go to hell 

 

[shoeking2101]

like it or not, legends are defined by the championships they win. for the b-grade legends that are not good enough to win championships people start throwing all sorts of excuses and stats around to make up for the player not being able to get it done come playoff time when the actual all time greats have flourished. 

This is so damn stupid basketball "like it or not," isn't this simple. You can't romanticize it like this. ( I mean you can, it's just foolish, at least IMO lol)

Is Karl Malone really a B grade legend because he didn't win a ring? HE HAS LIKE THE MOST POINTS IN NBA HISTORY B. B GRADE LEGEND?! How does one "not get it done" to the tune of what Malone did?

Is Allen Iverson really a B grade legend because he didn't win a ring? TF are we really saying here?

Is it really an excuse that Karl Malone lost to Jordan twice in the finals and his career as a result is the product of "excuses and stats to make up for him not being able to get it done come playoff time" ?!

So damn stupid I really don't get it. My ***** CP3 is 21 10 and 5 when it counts on almost 50 40 90. "B Grade Legend" though.

So. Damn. Dumb.

 

[offset pow clow]

Lebron wasnt top 10 all time before winning a title thats crazy talk

Once in a generation talent, carried his team to the finals at 22, 2 mvps & avg atleast 25 6 & 6 for 7 seasons straight before winning a title

 

[a-friend]

Man If I had to make a list I'd need some time.

But off top right now......nah,  Man, I don't even want to disrespect the game right now by freestyling but let's just break it down by position real quick, like we are doing with CP

Top 10 at each postion

Center ( Patrick E has to be in, No ring)

PF ( Barkley and Malone, no ring )

SF 

SG

PG etc. take a top 5 or top 10 at any postion, someone is ringless and a top guy.

If you say all time, the Experts aren't putting anyone in a top 10 list without rings. Top 50 maybe. 

 

[sea manup]

 

like it or not, legends are defined by the championships they win. for the b-grade legends that are not good enough to win championships people start throwing all sorts of excuses and stats around to make up for the player not being able to get it done come playoff time when the actual all time greats have flourished. 

This is so damn stupid

basketball "like it or not," isn't this simple. You can't romanticize it like this. ( I mean you can, it's just foolish, at least IMO lol)

Is Karl Malone really a B grade legend because he didn't win a ring?

Is Allen Iverson really a B grade legend because he didn't win a ring?

Is it really an excuse that Karl Malone lost to Jordan twice in the finals and his career as a result is the product of "excuses and stats to make up for him not being able to get it done come playoff time" ?!

So damn stupid

I really don't get it. My ***** CP3 is 21 10 and 5 when it counts on almost 50 40 90. "B Grade Legend" though.

So. Damn. Dumb.

depending now how you define a legend differs from person to person, but if im thinking top 10 all time none of those guys would even come close to making the list

however, if karl won one of those NBA finals in the 90s he would def be considered top 10 all time by some

not every player is out to lead the league in scoring, or win DPOY but every player that has ever played the game strives to win a championship (apparently except for melo)

 

[mister friendly]

Nobody is saying dudes who don't win rings aren't great but theres levels of greatness its pretty simple

Rings are a STRONG part of the equation especially when in the NBA where theres only 5 guys on the floor at a time

 

[sea manup]

 
Man If I had to make a list I'd need some time.

But off top right now......nah,  Man, I don't even want to disrespect the game right now by freestyling but let's just break it down by position real quick, like we are doing with CP

Top 10 at each postion

Center ( Patrick E has to be in, No ring)

PF ( Barkley and Malone, no ring )

SF 

SG

PG etc. take a top 5 or top 10 at any postion, someone is ringless and a top guy.

If you say all time, the Experts aren't putting anyone in a top 10 list without rings. Top 50 maybe. 

yeah of course, that would be a top 25 (5 players 5 positions) list

but even in those respective lists, the guys who do have the rings are going to be at the front of the lists

 

[sea manup]

if jordan didnt win 6 rings, do you really think a country in the middle east would name themselves after him? 

 

[shoeking2101]

Nobody is saying dudes who don't win rings aren't great but theres levels of greatness its pretty simple

Rings are a STRONG part of the equation especially when in the NBA where theres only 5 guys on the floor at a time

In the grand scheme of things they really aren't, or they shouldn't be at least. Far too many variables go into "rings."

Idc you cannot tell me Charles Barkley isn't as great because he didn't win or that Dirk was any less great before he won ONE Friggin ring. Kill that noise. You cannot tell me Lebron wasn't a top ten of all time caliber player before he won a ring. You cannot tell me KD isn't on a top 10 of all time trek right now whether he wins a ring or not. You cannot tell me Karl Malone isn't any less great because he lost to Jordan. Not hearing it. Levels of greatness withstanding.

 

[a-friend]

 

Nobody is saying dudes who don't win rings aren't great but theres levels of greatness its pretty simple

Rings are a STRONG part of the equation especially when in the NBA where theres only 5 guys on the floor at a time

In the grand scheme of things they really aren't, or they shouldn't be at least. Far too many variables go into "rings."

Idc you cannot tell me Charles Barkley isn't as great because he didn't win or that Dirk was any less great before he won ONE Friggin ring. Kill that noise. You cannot tell me Lebron wasn't a top ten of all time caliber player before he won a ring. You cannot tell me KD isn't on a top 10 of all time trek right now whether he wins a ring or not. You cannot tell me Karl Malone isn't any less great because he lost to Jordan. Not hearing it. Levels of greatness withstanding.

Man I quit at this post. If people can't understand this or don't feel this way, too, then we just have to part friends on this discussion. No harm no foul but, I won't discuss it any further past this.

This sums it up

 

[Deleted member 37467]

I'd care more about rings if certain players weren't forced to play for incompetent franchises led by mediocre coaches for the majority of their career.

A lot of times the only difference between a KG and Duncan is the situation that they were drafted into.

People will say Magic is the greatest PG of all time, which is fine, I really wouldn't even be mad if you thought he was the best player ever, but look @ what he came into,

Dude played for 12 years and went to the finals 9 times.

9.

Or was it 13 years?

Either way, that's ridiculous.

 

[sea manup]

 

Nobody is saying dudes who don't win rings aren't great but theres levels of greatness its pretty simple

Rings are a STRONG part of the equation especially when in the NBA where theres only 5 guys on the floor at a time

In the grand scheme of things they really aren't, or they shouldn't be at least. Far too many variables go into "rings."

Idc you cannot tell me Charles Barkley isn't as great because he didn't win or that Dirk was any less great before he won ONE Friggin ring. Kill that noise. You cannot tell me Lebron wasn't a top ten of all time caliber player before he won a ring. You cannot tell me KD isn't on a top 10 of all time trek right now whether he wins a ring or not. You cannot tell me Karl Malone isn't any less great because he lost to Jordan. Not hearing it. Levels of greatness withstanding.

you have said it yourself when talking about how little coaching means in the nba, the team with the best players usually win a series

if chris paul outplayed westbrook last year, the clippers would have moved on to the WCF. it was the other way around so the clippers went home. thats not to say chris paul didnt play great, westbrook was just better. if lebron outplays dirk in the 11 finals, miami probably has 3 championships instead of 2, but he didnt so he went home with nothing.

karl malone was great, but he was not as good as jordan or hakeem. just like chris paul is great but hes not as good as the top tier legends of his era (kobe, lebron, duncan, shaq, dirk)

if lebron would have somehow found a way to come out of his miami vacation ringless then no one would consider him a top 10 player.

 

[mister friendly]

Nobody is saying dudes who don't win rings aren't great but theres levels of greatness its pretty simple

Rings are a STRONG part of the equation especially when in the NBA where theres only 5 guys on the floor at a time

In the grand scheme of things they really aren't, or they shouldn't be at least. Far too many variables go into "rings."

Idc you cannot tell me Charles Barkley isn't as great because he didn't win or that Dirk was any less great before he won ONE Friggin ring. Kill that noise. You cannot tell me Lebron wasn't a top ten of all time caliber player before he won a ring. You cannot tell me KD isn't on a top 10 of all time trek right now whether he wins a ring or not. You cannot tell me Karl Malone isn't any less great because he lost to Jordan. Not hearing it. Levels of greatness withstanding.

I understand where you are coming from but the key phase in my post......"Theres level of greatness"

Barkley, Malone were great but Tim Duncan's resume is greater......the levels of greatness

Lebron had a great career until he won a ring but Larry Bird had a greater resume than Lebron and he still might

KD being on top 10 trek is a hypothetical right now, he hasn't done it

McGrady and Yao couldve been Kobe and Shaq in terms of hypotheticals

 

[a-friend]

To be fair, this all stemmed from TOP 5 PGs all time.

Now it seems the subject is being shifted as to compare CP to the All Time Greats at Any position.

 

[sea manup]

also, why was it such a big deal with that article about how no one wants to play with kobe came out when he has been part of 5 championship teams while going to the finals 7 times

yet the same people that agree with the article cry about how their favorite player has never had any good teammates to play with?

 

[sea manup]

 
To be fair, this all stemmed from TOP 5 PGs all time.

Now it seems the subject is being shifted as to compare CP to the All Time Greats at Any position.

for the record, my top 5 pgs would go

magic

the pizza guy sr

stockton

kidd

big O (not sure if he counts as a pg so ill throw in one more)

nash

 

[mister friendly]

I think Chris Paul is on the top 10 all time point guard list though

 

[shoeking2101]

you have said it yourself when talking about how little coaching means in the nba, the team with the best players usually win a series

if chris paul outplayed westbrook last year, the clippers would have moved on to the WCF. it was the other way around so the clippers went home. thats not to say chris paul didnt play great, westbrook was just better. if lebron outplays dirk in the 11 finals, miami probably has 3 championships instead of 2, but he didnt so he went home with nothing.

karl malone was great, but he was not as good as jordan or hakeem. just like chris paul is great but hes not as good as the top tier legends of his era (kobe, lebron, duncan, shaq, dirk)

if lebron would have somehow found a way to come out of his miami vacation ringless then no one would consider him a top 10 player.

Listen, what you are saying, to a degree I agree with. If you think those players are better, then that's fine.

But don't use championships as a means of validating one's "legacy" or career. No way around it. Karl Malone, Dirk pre 2011, Barkley, Lebron pre 2012, those are not B Grade Legends or whatever term.

I'm in the minority but my list of players as far as who's top 10 or whatever, is more about how they perform throughout their careers, in the playoffs, and things of that nature. If a player is ranked higher in my book, it's because he was better and had a more thorough career, not because he has a ring or two. Rings are nice to have, but I personally do not put too much stock into it. (Or worse...BEEN TO THE WCF )

 

[shoeking2101]

I understand where you are coming from but the key phase in my post......"Theres level of greatness"

Barkley, Malone were great but Tim Duncan's resume is greater......the levels of greatness

Lebron had a great career until he won a ring but Larry Bird had a greater resume than Lebron and he still might

KD being on top 10 trek is a hypothetical right now, he hasn't done it

McGrady and Yao couldve been Kobe and Shaq in terms of hypotheticals

Nothing Hypothetical about KD being on a trek to top 10 status. Trek as in he's moving significantly towards that. If you don't think so, then well..yeah.

If you think TD is better than those guys then that's fine, ( I Do too) but it isn't because of something as fortuitous and skewed as rings.