The GOAT: "I would not have called Larry and Magic and say let’s play together"

Updated: July 21, 2010, 8:32 AM ET

[h1]Magic: 'That's not what we were about'[/h1]

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Add Magic Johnson's voice to fellow Hall of Famer Michael Jordan's: Neither ever thought of combining forces the way LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh did earlier this month with the Miami Heat.
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We didn't think about it 'cause that's not what we were about. From college, I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird.
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LeBron James will be the Greatest Sidekick of All Time if Miami wins multiple titles..
 
Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by hella handsome

Originally Posted by DubA169

Originally Posted by Maximus Meridius

I agree with MJ saying he should want to beat them but I don't get why all the hate is going Lebron's way when Wade did the same thing.

wade won a ring as "the man". wade didn't go around claiming himself to be the "king" or the "chosen one". wade and bosh already had a team in place, lebron was the one who decided to hop on to the all star team. bron walked into wade's house.
 
its not like you're putting two all star quarterbacks on the same football team. these guys can play a lot of the same roles... 
in a sense you are. and i think you just contradicted yourself...
i meant a lot of different roles
laugh.gif
it was late, i was tired. 
you can only have one quarterback on the field at once. you can put lebron, wade, and bosh on the court at the same time. 
 
Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by hella handsome

Originally Posted by DubA169

Originally Posted by Maximus Meridius

I agree with MJ saying he should want to beat them but I don't get why all the hate is going Lebron's way when Wade did the same thing.

wade won a ring as "the man". wade didn't go around claiming himself to be the "king" or the "chosen one". wade and bosh already had a team in place, lebron was the one who decided to hop on to the all star team. bron walked into wade's house.
 
its not like you're putting two all star quarterbacks on the same football team. these guys can play a lot of the same roles... 
in a sense you are. and i think you just contradicted yourself...
i meant a lot of different roles
laugh.gif
it was late, i was tired. 
you can only have one quarterback on the field at once. you can put lebron, wade, and bosh on the court at the same time. 
 
one of the greatest minds of our generation has spoken. lil wayne says it's cool guys. lock this thread up. stop the arguments
 
one of the greatest minds of our generation has spoken. lil wayne says it's cool guys. lock this thread up. stop the arguments
 
I think its naive to believe that other great NBA players would not have jumped ship had they been in the same position as LeBron. What LeBron did was fairly unprecedented in the NBA since he is a great player who left his team via free agency in his prime. The difference between LeBron and other greats of the past is that LeBron had the freedom to move while others like Jordan were tied to long term contracts and were unable to jump ship even if they wanted to. How can anyone state with absolute certainty that a player like Jordan would've stuck around with the Bulls for several more years of agony if he had the opportunity to leave the team? The circumstances surrounding past greats were much different. They either had no choice but to stay (because of long term contracts they signed) or they were already on good teams.

I think the closest example to LeBron's was when Kobe flirted with leaving the Lakers a few years ago. Although it was pretty clear that Kobe would stay, he still openly explored other options. He then signed a long term deal believing that the team would be competitive every single year throughout the contract. Had Kobe known that the Lakers would be a mediocre team for the first 3 years of that deal (3 years of his prime), would he have really stayed in L.A.? I dont think so. In fact, he got fed up after 3 years and asked to be traded however he was tied up due to the contract he signed. Now you look at LeBron, he was with the Cavs for 7 years and he was in his prime for probably 3 of those years. The Cavs became an elite team but they never got close to winning an NBA title. LeBron had the option of sticking around with the Cavs and being surrounded by mediocre players, a team with limited cap flexibility, and the probability they would not compete for a title for another couple of years until their bad contracts started expiring OR join a team where he could legitimately compete for titles immediately. It was a no brainer and I have a hard time believing that other greats would've passed up on this same opportunity LeBron had.

I understand people being upset at LeBron joining another great player in Wade and one of the best big men in the league in Bosh and perceiving this as 'taking the easy way out', but I think its naive to think that other great players would not have done the same thing if given the chance. Magic and Bird had help. Jordan had help. Kobe had help. Duncan had help. Wade had help. Now compare the supporting casts of those players to the supporting cast that LeBron had with the Cavs. His best teammates in his 7-years with the Cavs were Mo Williams and an aging Antawn Jamison.

It's clear that some people are using convenient arguments to bash LeBron. The main criticism of LeBron is that he does not have any rings. Now that he's joined the Heat he is a ring chaser. Ofcourse people are ignoring the fact the man left money on the table (contracts and endorsements) in order to put himself in the best position to win the same rings he is criticized for not having. Had he gone to NY or Chicago he would've been criticized for chasing money. Had he stayed in Cleveland he would've been criticized even more if the Cavs went another few years without winning a title. He was in a lose - lose - lose situation from a PR standpoint but he made the best on-court decision; a decision other players in the past would've made had they had free agent flexibility like LeBron.

And the idea that he will be Wade's sidekick is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it is Wade's team but LeBron is better and will continue to be better than Wade for years to come. LeBron will put up the best numbers on that team. LeBron is the reason that team is now legitimate title contenders. Wade+Bosh is not enough to win an NBA title. Wade+Bosh+LeBron is.
 
I think its naive to believe that other great NBA players would not have jumped ship had they been in the same position as LeBron. What LeBron did was fairly unprecedented in the NBA since he is a great player who left his team via free agency in his prime. The difference between LeBron and other greats of the past is that LeBron had the freedom to move while others like Jordan were tied to long term contracts and were unable to jump ship even if they wanted to. How can anyone state with absolute certainty that a player like Jordan would've stuck around with the Bulls for several more years of agony if he had the opportunity to leave the team? The circumstances surrounding past greats were much different. They either had no choice but to stay (because of long term contracts they signed) or they were already on good teams.

I think the closest example to LeBron's was when Kobe flirted with leaving the Lakers a few years ago. Although it was pretty clear that Kobe would stay, he still openly explored other options. He then signed a long term deal believing that the team would be competitive every single year throughout the contract. Had Kobe known that the Lakers would be a mediocre team for the first 3 years of that deal (3 years of his prime), would he have really stayed in L.A.? I dont think so. In fact, he got fed up after 3 years and asked to be traded however he was tied up due to the contract he signed. Now you look at LeBron, he was with the Cavs for 7 years and he was in his prime for probably 3 of those years. The Cavs became an elite team but they never got close to winning an NBA title. LeBron had the option of sticking around with the Cavs and being surrounded by mediocre players, a team with limited cap flexibility, and the probability they would not compete for a title for another couple of years until their bad contracts started expiring OR join a team where he could legitimately compete for titles immediately. It was a no brainer and I have a hard time believing that other greats would've passed up on this same opportunity LeBron had.

I understand people being upset at LeBron joining another great player in Wade and one of the best big men in the league in Bosh and perceiving this as 'taking the easy way out', but I think its naive to think that other great players would not have done the same thing if given the chance. Magic and Bird had help. Jordan had help. Kobe had help. Duncan had help. Wade had help. Now compare the supporting casts of those players to the supporting cast that LeBron had with the Cavs. His best teammates in his 7-years with the Cavs were Mo Williams and an aging Antawn Jamison.

It's clear that some people are using convenient arguments to bash LeBron. The main criticism of LeBron is that he does not have any rings. Now that he's joined the Heat he is a ring chaser. Ofcourse people are ignoring the fact the man left money on the table (contracts and endorsements) in order to put himself in the best position to win the same rings he is criticized for not having. Had he gone to NY or Chicago he would've been criticized for chasing money. Had he stayed in Cleveland he would've been criticized even more if the Cavs went another few years without winning a title. He was in a lose - lose - lose situation from a PR standpoint but he made the best on-court decision; a decision other players in the past would've made had they had free agent flexibility like LeBron.

And the idea that he will be Wade's sidekick is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it is Wade's team but LeBron is better and will continue to be better than Wade for years to come. LeBron will put up the best numbers on that team. LeBron is the reason that team is now legitimate title contenders. Wade+Bosh is not enough to win an NBA title. Wade+Bosh+LeBron is.
 
Why didn't Lebron take less money to stay in Cleveland if he wanted to be this "team" guy?  Everyone talks about how maxed out the Cavs were, well, if he takes less money, Shaq and Z come off the books, all of a sudden they have a TON more flexibility to bring talent in that he wants. 

He was willing to take less money in Miami, and move his family, but not take less money and stay at home? 

Weird. 
 
Why didn't Lebron take less money to stay in Cleveland if he wanted to be this "team" guy?  Everyone talks about how maxed out the Cavs were, well, if he takes less money, Shaq and Z come off the books, all of a sudden they have a TON more flexibility to bring talent in that he wants. 

He was willing to take less money in Miami, and move his family, but not take less money and stay at home? 

Weird. 
 
Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

I think its naive to believe that other great NBA players would not have jumped ship had they been in the same position as LeBron. What LeBron did was fairly unprecedented in the NBA since he is a great player who left his team via free agency in his prime. The difference between LeBron and other greats of the past is that LeBron had the freedom to move while others like Jordan were tied to long term contracts and were unable to jump ship even if they wanted to. How can anyone state with absolute certainty that a player like Jordan would've stuck around with the Bulls for several more years of agony if he had the opportunity to leave the team? The circumstances surrounding past greats were much different. They either had no choice but to stay (because of long term contracts they signed) or they were already on good teams.

I think the closest example to LeBron's was when Kobe flirted with leaving the Lakers a few years ago. Although it was pretty clear that Kobe would stay, he still openly explored other options. He then signed a long term deal believing that the team would be competitive every single year throughout the contract. Had Kobe known that the Lakers would be a mediocre team for the first 3 years of that deal (3 years of his prime), would he have really stayed in L.A.? I dont think so. In fact, he got fed up after 3 years and asked to be traded however he was tied up due to the contract he signed. Now you look at LeBron, he was with the Cavs for 7 years and he was in his prime for probably 3 of those years. The Cavs became an elite team but they never got close to winning an NBA title. LeBron had the option of sticking around with the Cavs and being surrounded by mediocre players, a team with limited cap flexibility, and the probability they would not compete for a title for another couple of years OR join a team where he can legitimately compete for titles immediately. It was a no brainer and I have a hard time believing that other greats would've passed up on the opportunity to do what LeBron did.

I understand people being upset at LeBron joining another great player in Wade and one of the best big men in the league in Bosh in order to 'take the easy way out', but I think its naive to think that other great players would not have done the same thing if given the chance. Magic and Bird had help. Jordan had help. Kobe had help. Duncan had help. Wade had help. Now compare the supporting casts of those players to the supporting cast that LeBron had with the Cavs. His best teammates in his 7-years with the Cavs were Mo Williams and an aging Antawn Jamison.

It's clear that some people are using convenient arguments to bash LeBron. The main criticism of LeBron is that he does not have any rings. Now that he's joined the Heat he is a ring chaser. Had he gone to NY or Chicago he would've been criticized for chasing money. Had he stayed in Cleveland he would've been criticized even more if the Cavs went another few years without winning a title. He was in a lose - lose - lose situation from a PR standpoint but he made the best on-court decision; a decision other players in the past would've made had they had free agent flexibility like LeBron.

Exactly!...And that's the TRUTH, RUTH!

Samuel-L-Jackson-Do-the-Right-Thing.9.jpg



  
 
Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

I think its naive to believe that other great NBA players would not have jumped ship had they been in the same position as LeBron. What LeBron did was fairly unprecedented in the NBA since he is a great player who left his team via free agency in his prime. The difference between LeBron and other greats of the past is that LeBron had the freedom to move while others like Jordan were tied to long term contracts and were unable to jump ship even if they wanted to. How can anyone state with absolute certainty that a player like Jordan would've stuck around with the Bulls for several more years of agony if he had the opportunity to leave the team? The circumstances surrounding past greats were much different. They either had no choice but to stay (because of long term contracts they signed) or they were already on good teams.

I think the closest example to LeBron's was when Kobe flirted with leaving the Lakers a few years ago. Although it was pretty clear that Kobe would stay, he still openly explored other options. He then signed a long term deal believing that the team would be competitive every single year throughout the contract. Had Kobe known that the Lakers would be a mediocre team for the first 3 years of that deal (3 years of his prime), would he have really stayed in L.A.? I dont think so. In fact, he got fed up after 3 years and asked to be traded however he was tied up due to the contract he signed. Now you look at LeBron, he was with the Cavs for 7 years and he was in his prime for probably 3 of those years. The Cavs became an elite team but they never got close to winning an NBA title. LeBron had the option of sticking around with the Cavs and being surrounded by mediocre players, a team with limited cap flexibility, and the probability they would not compete for a title for another couple of years OR join a team where he can legitimately compete for titles immediately. It was a no brainer and I have a hard time believing that other greats would've passed up on the opportunity to do what LeBron did.

I understand people being upset at LeBron joining another great player in Wade and one of the best big men in the league in Bosh in order to 'take the easy way out', but I think its naive to think that other great players would not have done the same thing if given the chance. Magic and Bird had help. Jordan had help. Kobe had help. Duncan had help. Wade had help. Now compare the supporting casts of those players to the supporting cast that LeBron had with the Cavs. His best teammates in his 7-years with the Cavs were Mo Williams and an aging Antawn Jamison.

It's clear that some people are using convenient arguments to bash LeBron. The main criticism of LeBron is that he does not have any rings. Now that he's joined the Heat he is a ring chaser. Had he gone to NY or Chicago he would've been criticized for chasing money. Had he stayed in Cleveland he would've been criticized even more if the Cavs went another few years without winning a title. He was in a lose - lose - lose situation from a PR standpoint but he made the best on-court decision; a decision other players in the past would've made had they had free agent flexibility like LeBron.

Exactly!...And that's the TRUTH, RUTH!

Samuel-L-Jackson-Do-the-Right-Thing.9.jpg



  
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Why didn't Lebron take less money to stay in Cleveland if he wanted to be this "team" guy?  Everyone talks about how maxed out the Cavs were, well, if he takes less money, Shaq and Z come off the books, all of a sudden they have a TON more flexibility to bring talent in that he wants. 

He was willing to take less money in Miami, and move his family, but not take less money and stay at home? 

Weird. 
That is not true. If LeBron resigned they would've been over the cap and would be paying the luxury tax. Anyways, they were way over the cap last season with Shaq's contract and so they dont have cap flexibility now just because his contract has expired. And Z was getting paid the veteran's minimum after he was traded to the Wiz, bought out, and then resigned with the Cavs. His contract expiring was almost inconsequential to the Cavs' flexibility. LeBron resigning for less with the Cavs would not have made a difference since it just would've put them over the cap and they still would not have been in a position to bring in better talent.

Even now with LeBron gone, the Cavs have $50 million committed in salaries for 2010/11 (the cap is $58 mill) and they have about $40 million committed for next season. This team has almost no cap flexibility for 2 more years so LeBron likely would've been stuck with mediocre players if he decided to stay. Cavs fans can thank Danny Ferry for using up a huge chunk of the team's cap space on players like Mo Williams, Anderson Varajeo, etc.
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Why didn't Lebron take less money to stay in Cleveland if he wanted to be this "team" guy?  Everyone talks about how maxed out the Cavs were, well, if he takes less money, Shaq and Z come off the books, all of a sudden they have a TON more flexibility to bring talent in that he wants. 

He was willing to take less money in Miami, and move his family, but not take less money and stay at home? 

Weird. 
That is not true. If LeBron resigned they would've been over the cap and would be paying the luxury tax. Anyways, they were way over the cap last season with Shaq's contract and so they dont have cap flexibility now just because his contract has expired. And Z was getting paid the veteran's minimum after he was traded to the Wiz, bought out, and then resigned with the Cavs. His contract expiring was almost inconsequential to the Cavs' flexibility. LeBron resigning for less with the Cavs would not have made a difference since it just would've put them over the cap and they still would not have been in a position to bring in better talent.

Even now with LeBron gone, the Cavs have $50 million committed in salaries for 2010/11 (the cap is $58 mill) and they have about $40 million committed for next season. This team has almost no cap flexibility for 2 more years so LeBron likely would've been stuck with mediocre players if he decided to stay. Cavs fans can thank Danny Ferry for using up a huge chunk of the team's cap space on players like Mo Williams, Anderson Varajeo, etc.
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Why didn't Lebron take less money to stay in Cleveland if he wanted to be this "team" guy?  Everyone talks about how maxed out the Cavs were, well, if he takes less money, Shaq and Z come off the books, all of a sudden they have a TON more flexibility to bring talent in that he wants. 

He was willing to take less money in Miami, and move his family, but not take less money and stay at home? 

Weird. 
Good point.  But again, he did try to recruit Bosh to Cleveland and that was a no go.  Exactly who else was left out there for him to recruit?  Amar'e was locked up.  Lee would not have been the solution.  JJ was locked up.  The list of additions was slim to none at that particular point.
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Why didn't Lebron take less money to stay in Cleveland if he wanted to be this "team" guy?  Everyone talks about how maxed out the Cavs were, well, if he takes less money, Shaq and Z come off the books, all of a sudden they have a TON more flexibility to bring talent in that he wants. 

He was willing to take less money in Miami, and move his family, but not take less money and stay at home? 

Weird. 
Good point.  But again, he did try to recruit Bosh to Cleveland and that was a no go.  Exactly who else was left out there for him to recruit?  Amar'e was locked up.  Lee would not have been the solution.  JJ was locked up.  The list of additions was slim to none at that particular point.
 
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