The Ninjahood Thread [Formerly the White Fragility Thread]

[RustyShackleford]

As someone who immigrated to America as 14, from a very homogeneous black country, I never open my mouth and pass judgment on African Americans. Neither do most people in my family.

Black people are my people but I know in many ways the African American experience is different than mine.

Social scientist from all different fields have explanation on why you see different outcomes, and different attitudes. To write off the struggle on African Americans as merely needing an attitude adjustment borders on the same dismissive schtick that people in the dominant society like to run.

 

[Coromanti]

I take issue with black folks doing well, immigrants etc that waste time with the "if I did it why can't you" argument as opposed to "I did it, let me show you how". It's in the same thought class as those they look down on as they both don't contribute to any progress.

Again, anecodotally/speaking for myself here. Neither I, nor any of my relatives are like this. I've never met anyone who didn't want to help others like them.

 

[-Red-]

There is a huge difference between saying that all white people are racist and that all white people benefit from racism/white supremacy. The second statement is unequivocally true. The first statement is utterly ridiculous.

 

[ninjahood]

Some things may not seem like choices because you're stuck between a rock and hard place, or it may seem like there is only one clear decision to make, and yet it is still a choice.

I noticed you mentioned respect, the way my dad put it was that he wasn't looking for anyone's respect except self-respect. As long as he knew he was on the right path he didn't care if his boss didn't like him, or his race, or his culture, that's a distraction. The only thing that matters was that he did exceptional work and brought home is paycheck. He's a very stoic guy, and he taught me this stoic philosophy (avi check), so feelings never really came into the equation for him.

my mom is da same way & raised me as such.

 

[hand2handking]

Elaborate

You make it seem like once any 2 white people get together, they start saying racist things for sport on some Hail Hydra stuff

let "the wrong type" of black person walk into a place "they shouldnt be" i.e. a jewelry store, bar etc and think them white ppl aint whisperin

or the opposite let two white ppl be in the minority somewhere ie on a train/bus etc and think they not mutually assuring their safety

it happens all the time because white people have the luxury of engaging in casual racism

they have also distorted the meaning of racism to exclude these thoughts/behaviors

 

[Ingenious Bastard]

You can't say "If X and Z made it, then why can't Y ?"

That's just not how it works. Are X and Z still dealing with the problems that Y are facing ? And to answer that question you have to acknowledge if there is a problem in a first place. Which is always dismissed from the jump.

 

[RustyShackleford]

There is a huge difference between saying that all white people are racist and that all white people benefit from racism/white supremacy. The second statement is unequivocally true. The first statement is utterly ridiculous.

This.

I would take it a step further, white supremacy manifest itself a lot in economic policy. The same economic policies that have wrecked havoc to poor white communities

White supremacy has gotten to the point it is hurting a large number of poor white people but the sad part is that most the same people foolishly blame minorities for their problems.

 

[halftime]

I take issue with black folks doing well, immigrants etc that waste time with the "if I did it why can't you" argument as opposed to "I did it, let me show you how". It's in the same thought class as those they look down on as they both don't contribute to any progress.

There's that "learned experiences" mentality that people who did/are doing well have.  People don't want to give away the keys for two reasons:

1) They're afraid of that person doing better than them

2) They believe that you learn more by struggling to get what you want rather than the info being handed to you

 

[Coromanti]

You can't say "If X and Z made it, then why can't Y ?"

That's just not how it works. Are X and Z still dealing with the problems that Y are facing ? And to answer that question you have to acknowledge if there is a problem in a first place. Which is always dismissed from the jump.

You call it being dismissive I call it treating it as a given. I don't understand why it must be called out if it is already understood.

 

[ninjahood]

I find this whole Black vs White thing to be a uniquely New World phenomenon. Even still in this day and age, generally speaking Ukrainians don't like Russians, Russians don't like Chechens, Bosnian Muslims don't like Serbian Christians,Turkish don't like Kurds, Cantonese don't like Fujianese, Koreans & Chinese don't like Japanese etc etc. This goes on and on. So you're simplification of Black and White is symbolic of your American experience and isn't reflective of the world in general.

 

[deleted]

There is a huge difference between saying that all white people are racist and that all white people benefit from racism/white supremacy. The second statement is unequivocally true. The first statement is utterly ridiculous.

Agreed 100%

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

There is a huge difference between saying that all white people are racist and that all white people benefit from racism/white supremacy. The second statement is unequivocally true. The first statement is utterly ridiculous.

Within the context of liberal NT I automatically assumed the bold portion is what was being talked about. It's the only context where the original "all white people are racist" point hold any weight.

 

[RustyShackleford]

No one should use their personal experience as their main guide to solving macro socio-economic trends.

You don't really know if you're the average, the marginal, of an outlier

-Plus practicing self reliance and fighting against white supremacy/systemic racism are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Coromanti]

As someone who immigrated to America as 14, from a very homogeneous black country, I never open my mouth and pass judgment on African Americans. Neither do most people in my family.

Black people are my people but I know in many ways the African American experience is different than mine.

Social scientist from all different fields have explanation on why you see different outcomes, and different attitudes. To write off the struggle on African Americans as merely needing an attitude adjustment borders on the same dismissive schtick that people in the dominant society like to run.

 

[Coromanti]

No one should use their personal experience as their main guide to solving macro socio-economic trends.

You don't really know if you're the average, the marginal, of an outlier

-Plus practicing self reliance and fighting against white supremacy/systemic racism are not mutually exclusive.

While no one can know for sure if they are average, marignal, or outlier, presenting an experience is still beneficial if the major points of it can be repeated almost like a step by step/how to.

It's no different from using your personal experience in order to give someone else advice. If it works, why not use it?

 

[mo matik]

White fragility exemplified:

 

[ninjahood]

I've never seen you comment on the opposite. Somehow white supremacy is what it is to you but black empowerment moves you so strongly you have to comment.

Now all of a sudden fool can spot racism but ignorantly denies systemic racism at every turn. You gotta love the tools on here

da issh idea folks tryin to peddle is Structural/systemic meme that basically IMO takes responsibility & accountability out of da hands of da individual & gives people a out to redirect blame as to why things dont go da way they want it to.

its as simple as "your future is already written" vs "you control your own destiny".

and me? i like to know i got FULL control how my life ends up. moms raised me like that, and im passing that on..eff everything & everyone else.

 

[RustyShackleford]

As someone who immigrated to America as 14, from a very homogeneous black country, I never open my mouth and pass judgment on African Americans. Neither do most people in my family.


Black people are my people but I know in many ways the African American experience is different than mine.


Social scientist from all different fields have explanation on why you see different outcomes, and different attitudes. To write off the struggle on African Americans as merely needing an attitude adjustment borders on the same dismissive schtick that people in the dominant society like to run.

[thread="651777"]I think you're post was in response to mine, if not my bad.[/thread]
[thread="651777"] [/thread]
[thread="651777"]I don't dismiss or judge the relationships between African Americans and European Americans throughout history. I treat this information as a given when making my arguments. Perhaps it's personality quirk but I feel like I'm just virtue signaling if I state over and over again the horrors that have happened when making my arguments.[/thread]

I didn't write it as a direct response, I just wrote it because you and others were giving an immigrants perspective.

No one should use their personal experience as their main guide to solving macro socio-economic trends.


You don't really know if you're the average, the marginal, of an outlier


-Plus practicing self reliance and fighting against white supremacy/systemic racism are not mutually exclusive.

While no one can know for sure if they are average, marignal, or outlier, presenting an experience is still beneficial if the major points of it can be repeated almost like a step by step/how to.

Yes you can, their is tons of research from many fields of social science that can let you know where you stand relative to anyone else.

There is nothing wrong with using personal experience to help shape your opinion, I mean it is only natural. But your experience is unique to you, you can't just tell someone "Well I need it, everyone else should be able too". You may not be facing the unique conditions others are.

 

[Mark Antony]

I've never seen you comment on the opposite. Somehow white supremacy is what it is to you but black empowerment moves you so strongly you have to comment.

Now all of a sudden fool can spot racism but ignorantly denies systemic racism at every turn. You gotta love the tools on here

da issh idea folks tryin to peddle is Structural/systemic meme that basically IMO takes responsibility & accountability out of da hands of da individual & gives people a out to redirect blame as to why things dont go da way they want it to.

its as simple as "your future is already written" vs "you control your own destiny".

and me? i like to know i got FULL control how my life ends up. moms raised me like that, and im passing that on..eff everything & everyone else.

Well your opinion is short sighted, sorry. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Open your mind.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It is straight up bull **** to say that everyone that talks about systemic racism is looking for someone sort of cop out.

Most everyone on NT that talks about it is educated, has good jobs, and live decent lives. Yet, that doesn't excuse us having to live under a system of white supremacy.

Once again, practicing self reliance in your personal life, and being against white supremacy, are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Even upper class blacks, and their children, still get messed with.

 

[halftime]

White fragility exemplified:

Great vid.

The kid was advocating for tracing back to ancestors of slave owners, finding the wealth and redistributing it, but wouldn't really answer directly if he was ready to give up his seat in college to a minority.

At the same time, there's no way that system can work.  IMO the best way to give back isn't for whites to give things up, it's for them to open their minds to this systemic racism and use their privilege and voice to help get some awareness to prevent it from here on out.  Of course, we can only dream.

 

[Coromanti]

White fragility exemplified:

Good video

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

I hate to get personal but lets just keep it all the way G here if the world is your oyster then why your black as almost 40 & still cooped up at moms place tryna finance a damn Cuban? For someone with such lofty ideals why are you not doing so much better?

Point blank it's one thing to deny something & have legitimate reasoning behind it, but you enter into clown territory when you begin to deny reality and on top of that have nothing to show for it but your mother jumping hurdles over shoe boxes in that cramped up space

 

[k3stacks]

Lol

 

[RustyShackleford]

Welp, knew that was coming