The Official Anime & Manga Thread Vol: 三

[waitwut]

but for da record oro called the 3rd the god when they were fighting

means nothing.  the 3rd trained orochimaru. he's biased.


Kishi has clearly been trying to rewrite the mythology in the part 2 of the manga as the 1st being the greatest shinobi ever.  i don't know why you guys are being so stubborn.

everything you're citing is from the early chapters.  we just read something kishi wrote 12 HOURS AGO calling the 1st the goat and you're still like "ehh, i'm not buying it."

im with you bruh my point was 1st > 3rd

 

[blakep267]

I'm not talking about that god talk. Im talking about actions. Dude took on all 3 of them at the same time and neutralized all three way out of his prime. They weren't even emotional, so thats another knock against them. He had to fight emotions when fighting them. Also I'm just going on how quickly and accurately he explained the scenario. Dude was chill as ever when he got
FaceTime.

that was like 10 years ago. things change. its called retconning. Kishi literally just called him da god. Do you think he cares what he wrote years ago

 

[lexlieno]

It's quite funny how when I was bringing up the "god" reference it was heavily downplayed and called irrelevan, but . Now that the first is being called a god everyone wants to mention it. Like I said before, all you guys are saying is this is what he's trying to do, I'm telling you what he did. He made the 3rd take out 3 kage level guys out of his prime, alone. No other fight in this manga has been that one sided.

 

[lexlieno]

that was like 10 years ago. things change. its called retconning. Kishi literally just called him da god. Do you think he cares what he wrote years ago

Just because it happened ten years ago that means it didn't happen?! I guess no
One else grasps the magnitude of a near 70 year old man taking down a kage level nin in his prime along with 2 immortal
Kage level nins with infinite chakra with nothing but death on the mind, and he neutralizes all 3.

 

[thedeek]

that was like 10 years ago. things change. its called retconning. Kishi literally just called him da god. Do you think he cares what he wrote years ago

Just because it happened ten years ago that means it didn't happen?! I guess no
One else grasps the magnitude of a near 70 year old man taking down a kage level nin in his prime along with 2 immortal
Kage level nins with infinite chakra with nothing but death on the mind, and he neutralizes all 3.

We grasp that fact perfectly, but the point is that if Kishi decided to go back to that now, it'd probably have the 3rd getting his *** kicked a lot harder now that he's decided that the First is superior to everyone.

Retcon is the alteration of previously established facts in a fictional work. Retcons are done for many reasons, including the accommodation of sequels or further derivative works in a series, wherein newer authors or creators want to revise the in-story history to allow a course of events that would not have been possible in the story's original continuity.

 

[thedeek]

Side note: Does Sasuke know of Minato being Naruto's father?

 

[nako xl]

It's quite funny how when I was bringing up the "god" reference it was heavily downplayed and called irrelevan, but . Now that the first is being called a god everyone wants to mention it. Like I said before, all you guys are saying is this is what he's trying to do, I'm telling you what he did. He made the 3rd take out 3 kage level guys out of his prime, alone. No other fight in this manga has been that one sided.

no one downplayed it.

the thing was your only arguments were "he beat 3 kage level dudes" and "look at his nick name" and we all said "they weren't fighting at full capacity (not even oro since he was effing around) and the nickname doesnt mean anything when all we're seeing now are feats and madara called 1st the best since the so6p."

NOW even the nickname argument has been turned in favor of the 1st. thats why people are shining a light on it.

Side note: Does Sasuke know of Minato being Naruto's father?

only if tobi told him.

 

[lexlieno]

no one downplayed it.

the thing was your only arguments were "he beat 3 kage level dudes" and "look at his nick name" and we all said "they weren't fighting at full capacity (not even oro since he was effing around) and the nickname doesnt mean anything when all we're seeing now are feats and madara called 1st the best since the so6p."

NOW even the nickname argument has been turned in favor of the 1st. thats why people are shining a light on it.

only if tobi told him.

That's what I mean.  YOU say they were playing around.  They got handled by the 3rd.  Point blank.  All 3 were neutralized.  He even pushed back the 9 tails in his old age.  Full capacity?!?! You think the 3rd was at his full capacity?  He's the only Hokage to die in old age...let that resonate.  

 

[waitwut]

that was like 10 years ago. things change. its called retconning. Kishi literally just called him da god. Do you think he cares what he wrote years ago

Just because it happened ten years ago that means it didn't happen?! I guess no
One else grasps the magnitude of a near 70 year old man taking down a kage level nin in his prime along with 2 immortal
Kage level nins with infinite chakra with nothing but death on the mind, and he neutralizes all 3.

1 he was getting murked and struggled the whole fight
2 he couldnt eem handle genjutsu


you are over hyping the 3rd like if he could handle them he couldnt handle it at all he was just doing everything he could to stall his inevitable death i guess its pretty good but good enough to say hes strongest nope
id say even onoki would clap the 3rd

and im pretty sure oro said the 1st and 2nd werent at their strongest or something like that

 

[nako xl]

^ right... but all your arguments are based on things we haven't seen written yet.  they were playign around.  they weren't using their full range of jutsu.  orochimaru wasn't really attacking in concert with but using them, so it was really a 2 vs 1.

yes we can assume the 3rd was stronger when he was younger than he was when he fought them, i think the monkey king said so, but how much stronger? was it just gas bagging, like "aww man he's lost a step" or was he REALLY that much more powerful. we won't know until kishi tells us for sure.  so any argument you make based on that assumption is just that, an assumption.

however we've had madara (and numerous other shinobi) tell us, for certain in his opinion, that the first was the strongest, seen visual evidence of the firsts feats, and had the author tell us through another character (in a room full of all the others in the conversation) this dude is the bawse.

if in the next chapter something is said praising the third, then we can reopen this debate, but so far all the first has done is tell jokes and kishi is still going out of his way to have people **** ride him to emphasize the point that he is that dude.

but i think the argument is silly.  it's like the nba wilt chamberlin vs jordan argument, or maybe a UFC comparison is more fitting: it's all about matchups. any fighter can lose if he faces the wrong opponent.

What we should all be focusing on from that chapter is Itachi da gawd.  7 years old and thinking like a hokage? Him >>>>> ______.  It's a shame he had to catch the monkey from an akatsuki groupie and go out the way he did.  If it wasn't for his STD he woulda been surpassed all of them.

 

[lexlieno]

1 he was getting murked and struggled the whole fight
2 he couldnt eem handle genjutsu


you are over hyping the 3rd like if he could handle them he couldnt handle it at all he was just doing everything he could to stall his inevitable death i guess its pretty good but good enough to say hes strongest nope
id say even onoki would clap the 3rd

and im pretty sure oro said the 1st and 2nd werent at their strongest or something like that

1. He landed fatal blows to both of them, they were immortal.  It's hard to beat immortal Kages 3 v1......

2.  He got out of the genjutsu and found both of them in the darkness.....

You saying Onoki would beat the third lets me know you don't even know about the 3rd you just slizurping the others because it's been stated that he was the strongest active Kage at the time of his death.  Meaning him at 70>>. Onoki closer to his 50s.....You guys kill me when you add stuff in.  "oh... im surreeeeeee oro said they weren't at their strongest or something like that."... get out of here with that mess.  Go watch Sailor Moon....or something like that.

 

[lexlieno]

^ right... but all your arguments are based on things we haven't seen written yet.  they were playign around.  they weren't using their full range of jutsu.  orochimaru wasn't really attacking in concert with but using them, so it was really a 2 vs 1.

yes we can assume the 3rd was stronger when he was younger than he was when he fought them, i think the monkey king said so, but how much stronger? was it just gas bagging, like "aww man he's lost a step" or was he REALLY that much more powerful. we won't know until kishi tells us for sure.  so any argument you make based on that assumption is just that, an assumption.

however we've had madara (and numerous other shinobi) tell us, for certain in his opinion, that the first was the strongest, seen visual evidence of the firsts feats, and had the author tell us through another character (in a room full of all the others in the conversation) this dude is the bawse.

if in the next chapter something is said praising the third, then we can reopen this debate, but so far all the first has done is tell jokes and kishi is still going out of his way to have people **** ride him to emphasize the point that he is that dude.

but i think the argument is silly.  it's like the nba wilt chamberlin vs jordan argument, or maybe a UFC comparison is more fitting: it's all about matchups. any fighter can lose if he faces the wrong opponent.

What we should all be focusing on from that chapter is Itachi da gawd.  7 years old and thinking like a hokage? Him >>>>> ______.  It's a shame he had to catch the monkey from an akatsuki groupie and go out the way he did.  If it wasn't for his STD he woulda been surpassed all of them.

That's what I'm saying.  I'm waiting to see if they settle this debate.  You saying they were playing around is your opinion.  Anyone who says how come they didn't do this or that, I can easily say how come the 3rd didn't do this or that considering he knew every jutsu in the village....We have all 4 in a room now with there OG personalities...lets end this and see how it plays out.  As far as I'm concerned the 3rd neutralized 3 Kage level nins by himself.  You can't take away from that.  No matter what you say or how you feel, it happened.  

 

[nako xl]

you know what's really gonna piss everyone off?

this meeting is probably gonna end with sasuke clapping up at least 1 out of the 4 of them

when he uses an inexplicable power up and bodies the 2nd hokage, essentially saying " 1st > 3rd? pfft me > all" people are gonna lose their minds with rage.

 

[thedeek]

What'd be really funny is if this debate is written into the story and everyone in Konica is torn between first and the third as who is the goat.

 

[tdogg2k]

Side note: Does Sasuke know of Minato being Naruto's father?

I would assume so at this point. not that I think it would matter.

It's quite funny how when I was bringing up the "god" reference it was heavily downplayed and called irrelevan, but . Now that the first is being called a god everyone wants to mention it. Like I said before, all you guys are saying is this is what he's trying to do, I'm telling you what he did. He made the 3rd take out 3 kage level guys out of his prime, alone. No other fight in this manga has been that one sided.

Just because it happened ten years ago that means it didn't happen?! I guess no
One else grasps the magnitude of a near 70 year old man taking down a kage level nin in his prime along with 2 immortal
Kage level nins with infinite chakra with nothing but death on the mind, and he neutralizes all 3.

I have to admit I was one of the ones who said 1st >>>>>>>>all I'm starting to think the other way now. with Lexi's arguments.
but looking at it, Power wise and powerful jutsus he probably can crush.
but 1. Madara has never truly seen the 3rd in action. (now that we know it was actually obito who was there for the whole kyuubi attacking the villiage)
2. The professeor means he was smart. more than likely not only with jutsus but just as a general. With that said ..Brain over brawn...

Is naruto powerful. .yes,.......... do you think he can beat kakashi in a one on one fight... Probably not since Kakashi is more resourceful and has a wider range of jutsus.

Same goes for the 3rd. THE PROFESSOR.
full strength or not, we still have EVIDENCE AND PROOF that the 3rd took out 3 kage level ninjas at once. and wasn't at full powerful
now whether you want to say they were mindless and didn't have full power, we dont know that.....All we know is that the 3rd took them out.


As far as Madara talking the 1st is the Bawse, once again he hasnt seen the 3rd in full action yet
and for other villiages knowing about the 1st. he was a legend. Living legends aren't talked about as much.

It's the equivalent to the whole Biggie smalls and Tupac argument. everyone say's they are the GOAT, but if they were still alive, would they sell as high?
I think there are better rappers out now. (that actually have lyrics and substance...not the lil waynes of the world)

 

[blakep267]

^ right... but all your arguments are based on things we haven't seen written yet.  they were playign around.  they weren't using their full range of jutsu.  orochimaru wasn't really attacking in concert with but using them, so it was really a 2 vs 1.

yes we can assume the 3rd was stronger when he was younger than he was when he fought them, i think the monkey king said so, but how much stronger? was it just gas bagging, like "aww man he's lost a step" or was he REALLY that much more powerful. we won't know until kishi tells us for sure.  so any argument you make based on that assumption is just that, an assumption.

however we've had madara (and numerous other shinobi) tell us, for certain in his opinion, that the first was the strongest, seen visual evidence of the firsts feats, and had the author tell us through another character (in a room full of all the others in the conversation) this dude is the bawse.

if in the next chapter something is said praising the third, then we can reopen this debate, but so far all the first has done is tell jokes and kishi is still going out of his way to have people **** ride him to emphasize the point that he is that dude.

but i think the argument is silly.  it's like the nba wilt chamberlin vs jordan argument, or maybe a UFC comparison is more fitting: it's all about matchups. any fighter can lose if he faces the wrong opponent.

What we should all be focusing on from that chapter is Itachi da gawd.  7 years old and thinking like a hokage? Him >>>>> ______.  It's a shame he had to catch the monkey from an akatsuki groupie and go out the way he did.  If it wasn't for his STD he woulda been surpassed all of them.

yea, Itachi literally couldve been the next Kage after hiruzen, but thats why his story is tragic. He had to take the L and be the bad guy or every Uchiha wouldve been killed.

But also, I dont think Danzo wouldve allowed an Uchiha to be Kage, even though it wouldve settled the Uchiha dispute ( Itachi wouldve been loyal to Konoha while also not disrespecting the Uchiha). But Danzo would rather just kill them all

Side note: Does Sasuke know of Minato being Naruto's father?

I would assume so at this point. not that I think it would matter.

It's quite funny how when I was bringing up the "god" reference it was heavily downplayed and called irrelevan, but . Now that the first is being called a god everyone wants to mention it. Like I said before, all you guys are saying is this is what he's trying to do, I'm telling you what he did. He made the 3rd take out 3 kage level guys out of his prime, alone. No other fight in this manga has been that one sided.

Just because it happened ten years ago that means it didn't happen?! I guess no
One else grasps the magnitude of a near 70 year old man taking down a kage level nin in his prime along with 2 immortal
Kage level nins with infinite chakra with nothing but death on the mind, and he neutralizes all 3.

I have to admit I was one of the ones who said 1st >>>>>>>>all I'm starting to think the other way now. with Lexi's arguments.
but looking at it, Power wise and powerful jutsus he probably can crush.
but 1. Madara has never truly seen the 3rd in action. (now that we know it was actually obito who was there for the whole kyuubi attacking the villiage)
2. The professeor means he was smart. more than likely not only with jutsus but just as a general. With that said ..Brain over brawn...

Is naruto powerful. .yes,.......... do you think he can beat kakashi in a one on one fight... Probably not since Kakashi is more resourceful and has a wider range of jutsus.

Same goes for the 3rd. THE PROFESSOR.
full strength or not, we still have EVIDENCE AND PROOF that the 3rd took out 3 kage level ninjas at once. and wasn't at full powerful
now whether you want to say they were mindless and didn't have full power, we dont know that.....All we know is that the 3rd took them out.


As far as Madara talking the 1st is the Bawse, once again he hasnt seen the 3rd in full action yet
and for other villiages knowing about the 1st. he was a legend. Living legends aren't talked about as much.

It's the equivalent to the whole Biggie smalls and Tupac argument. everyone say's they are the GOAT, but if they were still alive, would they sell as high?
I think there are better rappers out now. (that actually have lyrics and substance...not the lil waynes of the world)

The kakashi argument maybe couldve been made b4 naruto fully realized his kyuubi powers. Now its pretty impossible even if kakashi is smarter.

The thing is, whats most relevant is what happened most recent. Nobody is disputing that Hiruzen was initially the strongest. But this was years b4 Kishi started being on this Hashirama is god tip and the sharingan is the best thing ever. Hashirama has now been retconned to be the pinnacle of shinobi. Hell, Madara became immensely powerful after using Hashirama's cells. That shows that his body is the most powerful power up out there. Weve seen his wood dragon, his death flower, mokuton full realized. Lets be honest, Hiruzen couldnt disperse Hasirama's darkness jutsu. If Hashi wouldve thrown that wood dragon out in the dark it wouldve been over. The edo golems only used like 2 jutsus. If anything, you could say it was plot no jutsu that Hiruzen even survived that long with the knowledge we know now

let me put it like this. The Thing once beat the Hulk a long time ago. By lex's logic, no matter what we see now, the Thing is still stronger.

 

[tdogg2k]

those conditions and that hulk was different

by yoir theory you have to thinj madara >>>
he was already on par qith hiruzen now he has his cells.....

 

[erickm713]

Yo, I just started watching Kids On The Slope and it's

 

[nako xl]

those conditions and that hulk was different

by yoir theory you have to thinj madara >>>
he was already on par qith hiruzen now he has his cells.....

hashirama is the 1st, hiruzen is the 3rd.

and madara right now quite possibly >>> the 1st. he wasn't on par with the first...he lost.  you can't be on par with a dude you needed a power up just to lose to.

but now after stealing the 1sts abilities? he quite possibly is stronger.  we'll have to see.

and blake's analogy is pretty much spot on.  the point he's making is you can't say The Thing beat The Hulk back in the 60s when The Hulk's character was written to be less powerful than he currently is.  "World War Hulk" Hulk was written up to be unstoppable the same way The First Hokage in part2/shippuuden has been retconned to be unbeatable.

You can make all the "but ... when he faced so and so ... and theoretically this should happen... and this guy's smarter so..." arguments you want but Marvel threw all of that out the window and showed Hulk running through people who had bested him in the past.  Same as giving Hashirama abilities he didn;t have in part 1.  That's what retconning is.  rewriting past storylines to change the character's current standing.  that's what blake was pointing out.  that's what kishi's done.

 

[mastamind89]

I didn't read what everyone posted because it's rather a lot. But are you guys basing who is the "God" off of strength. With the battle of those 3 hokages as a reference.
The 1st did help create a village, wood jutsu and had medical jutsu, just to name a few things. Taking those into account and other things, despite what little we know, might help the argument.

 

[knightngale]

I wonder if we will see these Hokages fight again. If they fight against Sasuke, you know that Sasuke will take all of them out because Kishi is in love with him.

IF they fight against Madara it will mean that Naruto's power of love jutsu was useless.

 

[spidermachine916]

oh man! OP is really icing up right now!
wonder who would win... and i still believe Hawkeyes is coming there

Naruto... meh...

 

[lexlieno]

yea, Itachi literally couldve been the next Kage after hiruzen, but thats why his story is tragic. He had to take the L and be the bad guy or every Uchiha wouldve been killed.

But also, I dont think Danzo wouldve allowed an Uchiha to be Kage, even though it wouldve settled the Uchiha dispute ( Itachi wouldve been loyal to Konoha while also not disrespecting the Uchiha). But Danzo would rather just kill them all
The kakashi argument maybe couldve been made b4 naruto fully realized his kyuubi powers. Now its pretty impossible even if kakashi is smarter.

The thing is, whats most relevant is what happened most recent. Nobody is disputing that Hiruzen was initially the strongest. But this was years b4 Kishi started being on this Hashirama is god tip and the sharingan is the best thing ever. Hashirama has now been retconned to be the pinnacle of shinobi. Hell, Madara became immensely powerful after using Hashirama's cells. That shows that his body is the most powerful power up out there. Weve seen his wood dragon, his death flower, mokuton full realized. Lets be honest, Hiruzen couldnt disperse Hasirama's darkness jutsu. If Hashi wouldve thrown that wood dragon out in the dark it wouldve been over. The edo golems only used like 2 jutsus. If anything, you could say it was plot no jutsu that Hiruzen even survived that long with the knowledge we know now

let me put it like this. The Thing once beat the Hulk a long time ago. By lex's logic, no matter what we see now, the Thing is still stronger.

I don't even include Madara in any talks of rankings because he's dead. Madara couldn't do any of this stuff when he was alive. Which confuses me really because how could he train if he got the rinnegan right before death?!? Also you keep saying that the 3rd couldn't handle wood jutsus. Please, that's the one thing he handled with ease. How did he find them when doing the sealing jutsu if he cant counter genjutsu?!! When are you people going to realize your only responses to my arguments are filled with "if's" and "I think"? You're throwing out scenarios that never happened and what your opinion is on things that never happened. You just downplay stuff because of fanboyism. You realize that right? One thing that blows me is how you folks say that was 10 years ago....outside of the 3rds fight have you even seen the 1st fight??? No, and even if you did how long ago was that?!?! Yet 10 years is a long time compared to what??!? The 50 years when the first was still fighting? Go off what you see not what you hear. It's like Yamas VC. Dude sucked during the whole manga. Now that he died, oh he was soooo powerful yet he never used it because he was loyal to Yama etc.

 

[waitwut]

1 he was getting murked and struggled the whole fight

2 he couldnt eem handle genjutsu



you are over hyping the 3rd like if he could handle them he couldnt handle it at all he was just doing everything he could to stall his inevitable death i guess its pretty good but good enough to say hes strongest nope

id say even onoki would clap the 3rd


and im pretty sure oro said the 1st and 2nd werent at their strongest or something like that

1. He landed fatal blows to both of them, they were immortal.  It's hard to beat immortal Kages 3 v1......
2.  He got out of the genjutsu and found both of them in the darkness.....

You saying Onoki would beat the third lets me know you don't even know about the 3rd you just slizurping the others because it's been stated that he was the strongest active Kage at the time of his death.  Meaning him at 70>>. Onoki closer to his 50s.....You guys kill me when you add stuff in.  "oh... im surreeeeeee oro said they weren't at their strongest or something like that."... get out of here with that mess.  Go watch Sailor Moon....or something like that.

what is this fatal blow you are talking about? him slapping a paper bomb on their ***? 1st and 2nd fighting in their prime to die to a paper bomb? cmon son...
a ninja finding someone in the darkness aint that some ****
you really think if it was a real fight the first and second would just stand there and throw a few punches while hes blind under genjutsu? you think they wouldnt just shove a forest straight up his *** or even better kill him with a paper bomb?
would it be different if he was in his prime? same arsenal but a little stronger that wont cut it bruh all he did was shoot some fire and mud cmon son..

scenarios that did happen 3rd basically got killed by his teachers while his student was laughing at him only reason he didnt die instantly is because oro wanted to watch him suffer
all you have is he handled 1st 2nd and oro which he sure as hell didnt and him being called a god when well the first was just called a god with the 3rd chillin right there


as for onoki

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

and madara could do that stuff when he was alive you think he made all those jutsus up on the spot? they only showed him for a little before he died

 

[blakep267]

I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp. Statements made 10+ years ago when new characters hadn't been created yet hold little weight. Do you realize the destructive power of oonokis dust element? You use these statements at fact. Things change. Also oonoki was closer to 90. Older than sarutobi